SkunkWerX

I found this on CL. Didn't pay much for it, so took a chance.

It's a 26" It had one Western flyer old tire, and the tube also had the "W" on it.
The hand grips also show the little "W" insignia, but I still don't know. They don't look original?

Anyone could slap Western grips and a tire/tube on a bike through it's lifetime. No head badge.
The coaster brake is "Perry England B100" with 2 stars.
Bottom bracket shows a stamping, but not a good one, if i had to guess I would say it says "85SN"
Also, rear fork shows what looks like "E209792"

Any ideas??

SquidPuppet

I can't ID it, myself. If you fail to get an answer here, try this link. There are some really knowledgeable guys in that forum. Like walking encyclopedias.

Rat Rod Bikes - A Community of Custom Vintage Bicycle Builders

ArmChairRider

Sure does look like a Western Flyer.
Mine was like a maroon red. Wheels and fenders were chrome.
I think it had a Bendix brake though.

SkunkWerX

Thanks guys. I have been trying to find a match on the chainring pattern or the chainguard shape, and haven't come up with anything conclusive. Started thinking Schwinn, but then noticed all of their chainrings looked a lot different. i am seeing Flyers with some similar looking chainring patterns, but no cigar yet.

Disassembled fairly easily, has its share of rust, but nothing rusted through. Spokes look like the biggest head ache.
Wheels/rims appear to be ok, minus some surface rust, no dings and appear to be fairly true, given some of the spokes are loose and/or very rusty.

Should I try to save the original wheels and just re-spoke? Hubs, axles, seem fine. i have bearings to freshen those up.
Spokes? or new wheels?

SquidPuppet

I'm 100% certain it's not a Schwinn, I don't know everything about every brand, but I have been a Schwinn guy for a long time.

If you are not dead set on an all original restoration, I'd build new aluminum wheels with stainless spokes. The reduced weight makes a HUGE difference. HUGE! Personally it's the old frames and forks that I dig. Everything else gets replace with aluminum parts.

Get your spokes at Danscomp.com. Nobody can come anywhere near their prices for Sapim (excellent) spokes. You'll save a ton. No minimum quantity and they cut them to order. 14g spoke AND nipple for 25 cents.

If you have problems finding odd ball size headsets check PorkchopBMX.com

SkunkWerX

Thanks Squid!! All great info.

i am not dead set on a full restore, unless someone eyeballed it as valuable...beyond being an old frame.

Where would you get the AL wheels? This is my first cruiser.

SquidPuppet

Do you want to build your own or buy complete?

SkunkWerX

Either way is an option for me. Depends how much more the completes will run.
i don't want to invest a ton of dough in this project, but, I do want it to be "right".

SquidPuppet

Well, let's work it up and see.


I got a real nice Shimano front hub from the LBS for $13.00. Good bearings, axle, races and dust covers. Everything else is Rolex hype. No reason to buy the overpriced stuff.



I buy Shimano CB-E110 coaster hubs for the rears for $20.00 on line. Shimano's coasters are trouble free and work fantastic. IMO all others should be avoided. I have Shimanos an all my bikes. ZERO problems, dead silent, modulate perfectly, plenty of ooomph if you want to lock 'em up.



72 x 25 cents = $18.00 for spokes and nipples + $6.00 for shipping = $22.00

We're at $55.00 before rims.

Two rims at $17.08 = $34.16 Alex C1000 Rim - 26" x 1.50", 36H, Silver

Plus a some freight?

You are at ~$89.00 for strong hand built wheels. Rim tape and tubes and you are still under $100.00

Or you can buy junky robot built wheels for about $150.00. And they have a KT coaster brake.

Be aware that Shimano CB-E110 hubs come with flanges drilled for 12g spokes or 14g spokes. Make sure to buy the one that matches the spokes you choose.

That should give you a ballpark idea. You could always get snazzier rims. I would if I was going off road or touring the country with a heavily loaded bike. But for cruising the beach, neighborhood, paths, the ones I have are fine. I even ride wheelies and jump up and down curbs. Still true after decades.

The bike below hasn't seen a spoke wrench since 2002.

SkunkWerX

Sweet! Thanks for taking that time. Gives me an education. i think i can source some AL rims locally, used, but excellent and true.

Let me throw in one complexity... I am toying with using a SRAM automatic 2 speed hub/coaster.
So that will likely be a ground up build (by me).

edit: it is now fully disassembled, deciding what stays and what goes. Like you said, basically frame/forks is what I'm after.

SquidPuppet

I haven't ridden one, but they sound like a really bad idea. REALLY BAD. They shift gears at a certain RPM, no matter what.

YOU don"t get to choose what gear to use.


It shifts whether your legs are ready or not.

What if you are riding along at a certain cadence and it shifts? But you are riding at that cadence deliberately.

It shifts regardless of uphill, downhill, headwind....

It doesn't know what you are trying to achieve

I would damn near guarantee I would hate the experience. But that's just me. You might dig it.

Philphine

can you still see the outline of the head badge? maybe the paint is still darker or something? might try the cabe bike forum. I hardly go there, but vintage bikes are their thing.

SkunkWerX

Good idea, but someone had put some stickers where the head badge once was, obscuring whatever shape it may have been. Darn good idea, though.

Thanks Squid, I'm mulling it over. I did score a set of 26" AL wheels. The front one will bolt right up (already dry fit it)....so that is 1 wheel in the bag, minus cleaning and polishing. The rear wheel has a 7 speed freewheel in it, too wide, and spoke length will be all wrong, but at least I have the rim.... if i want to "cheap out" I can just get new spokes and lace existing hub to new wheel.
-or- i can go with your idea above, and source and build one from on line....but use the AL rim i have, they spin true, no whammos or dings in them.

SquidPuppet

I don't mean to sound pushy, but I strongly recommend the Shimano coaster hub for problem free operation.

And if I were to go for multiple gears, I'd go with an IGH so I could select each gear. Shimano and Sturmey Archer make so many now. From three all the way twelve speeds.

SkunkWerX

Understood about both the Shimano coaster hub and the IGH. This will be the first iteration...I usually do several iterations on bikes, figure what I want/need as I try them out. First iteration is also budget minded.
Was trying to avoid any cables on this one, shifter or brakes. A 7 or 8 speed would be nice right here on my road as I do have some hills. The beach is only a couple of hours away, sea-level flatland even closer.

Since this is my first Cruiser, I will learning and figuring things out. if i keep it, upgrades will happen, as I cannot leave anything alone or in stock form.

Thanks for all the help!!!! i don't mind the opinions, nor any pushiness, it let's me know how much weight to put on various items/concepts.

i don't even know if this frame style will be what i really want, or if i will build a onto a different frame as a "keeper".

edit: Also, Squid, I do appreciate you walking through the wheel build, above, THAT was VERY GOOD stuff!
My question is, when you say you buy coaster hubs for $20 on line... what places do you use? Are there 2 or 3 well known on-line stores you prefer for parts such as this?

SquidPuppet

I hear you on the multiple iterations. It's not like they are born, it's like they evolve.

I buy them from whichever source has them the cheapest at that moment in time. Right now $19.49 at Amazon for the 80 gauge and $22.63 for the 105 gauge. I've had good experiences at NiagaraCycle.com and Universalcycles.com.

Spokes = Dan's Comp. That is the ONLY place for spokes
Odd ball old school and strange size stuff = PorkchopBMX

For everything else I just shop around for the best deal. A couple years ago I bought an American crank from a store in Germany and a Japanese front hub from a store in England because their prices were so LOW that even with shipping fees I got the items for FAR less than I would have paid here.

If you do decide to go single speed coaster brake (**which is the only true and proper way to build a cruiser) let me know when you get to that part of the project. I'll give you a few "set up" and "race modification" tips for the internals of the hub. Simple and almost free. Makes things even schmoooother.



** The Rule Book allows Bendix 2 speed kickback hubs.

SkunkWerX

Waiting on a few more parts, like the blue handlebar grips, new crank bearings.....

I was able to do some light machining (lathe) on the old axle outer cones, and installed it into the suntour front hub that was part of the AL wheelset I picked up for $10 off of CL. I didn't like the idea of skewer up front, did not look "retro".

Rebuilt original saddle, including popping out the old rusty steel rivets and replacing with copper rivets.
I am not going for the pristine look all the way, it's going to have a little bit of "salty" look here and there.

Ready for any hints about modding the original Coaster hub, haven't even adjusted it...took it apart, de-rusted sprocket and such. internals looked great, grease was not caked, no sign of any water ever being inside, so I'll just run the original for now. This is a low budget build.

Will pick up nuts, bolts as needed for finishing touches.

Mopar Pearl Blue...because i had it on the shelf. Can't beat 'free'.

SquidPuppet

Two of these man.

I dig the new color. Nice work on the saddle. What kind of grips are on order? If you have any problems locating "retro" enough looking grips, let me know.

Coaster brake tips.

1. Replace both sets of caged bearings on the drive side with loose balls. I don't know what size they are because I am unfamiliar with that hub, so you'll need to measure them. Loose balls will obviously roll better and bear the load better since you'll be increasing the number of balls. Coasters tend to be finicky about holding an adjustment because of the second set of bearings that the driver rides on. Running loose balls really helps them hold the adjustment and it helps prevent uneven wear on the edge of the driver.

2. Chamfer the leading edge of both brake shoes. Just a little, to about a 45 degree angle. This helps draw the grease into the braking area between the inside of the hub shell and the braking surface of the shoes.

3. Critical!!!! Do what ever it takes to make sure that the reaction arm is 100% immobilized where it fastens to the chain stay. Use the biggest bolt that can fit though the holes to eliminate the chance of play. That bracket needs to FIT the chain stay. Can't have any slop. If the arm is not secured, when you hit the brakes it will move. Even just a little movement causes it to try to unscrew itself on the non-drive side. That'll throw all your adjustments out the window. If you need a good strap/clamp, Sturmey Archer makes them in a variety of sizes for different size stays.You can also shim the stay with some old inner tube or whatever is necessary to make that sucker tight.

You can shop here for a strap/clamp if you need one.

Niagara Cycle - Search Results for "sturmey archer brake"

Post more pics as you progress.

SquidPuppet

OK, OK, for later, maybe.

A nice finishing touch for me was finding these. There is only ONE place in the world these can be found. I don't know why, but it's true.

Track nuts. Axle nuts with a built-in-floating-serrated-washer. 9mm and 10mm with 24 TPI are totally common because those are the standard axles in the track world. But a lot of old bikes like ours are 3/8 inch. Which is 9.5mm. And more oddly, the coaster axle is 26TPI.

You can buy them individually or in a four pack with 2 of each size here.

Swivel washer BMX axle nut set 3/8" X 24T & 26T for Skyway Mags | Porkchop BMX

SkunkWerX

Thanks for all of that!

I plan on making a new strap, I can do steel fabrication and blacksmithing, so i think I can come up with something that works, stays tight and looks decent.

i hope the bearings are 1/4" ....because I have a good 50 or so of them... brand new! Loose bearings makes sense! Nice trick!

SkunkWerX

Also..... i was goofing around with the hub, no chain or crank hooked up yet.
i would spin the wheel, then actuate the rear cog backward, to see the brake work.
After doing this several times, the next time i spun the wheel, I heard a clicking sound, like a freewheel/freehub!

Could this be a 2 speed hub? Once i have the crank and chain hooked up I might be able to tell. it's tough just cranking the sprocket backward by hand..danger danger.

Do single speed coaster hubs do the "click click click" sound when coasting? I hadn't heard this one clicking up until now. And now it isn't doing it after a couple more sprocket-braking tests.

All that is stamped on the hub shell is "36 13"


Q: The guy who invented the coaster hub had a son. What did he name him?

A: Pawl

SkunkWerX

oh! found the hub story here:
Well, there's your problem.: Perry Coaster Hub

SquidPuppet

Does it have a strip that runs around the circumference of the shell? Like this?



The inner guts would be way more complex. They'd look like this...



A regular coaster brake would look simple like this...



What did the guts look like when you had it apart?



There are probably two different sized balls on the drive side. The Shimano uses some 1/4 and some 7/32.

I'm betting that is 36 spoke holes at 13 gauge



Since there are no pawls, there should be NO clicking. NO noises whatsoever actually.

Here is a video of the mods in case you want to see it being done. The guy is a little slow moving but he covers all the details. They are on the bottom right of his page.

https://www.coasterculture.com/COAST...IFIED_HUB.html

SquidPuppet

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh.......

You have this?








That's gotta go bro!

SkunkWerX

Yeah, yeah.... These are bad, huh?
I gather that from reading more.