Westislander

I am interested in buying a hybrid but am torn between two models:

The Fitness Hybrid (Trek 7.2 FX) vs. The Dual Sport Hybrid (Giant Roam 3 - it has a front suspension that can be locked).

My riding style: I really enjoy parks on weekends, gravel paths, very light dirt roads. During the week I commute about 30km (18 miles) total each day.

I think (please correct me if I'm wrong) that these two bikes are very similar but that the Giant will have significantly less vibration into arms, forearms (and dental work!) compared to the Trek. I am also suspecting that the Trek will be faster but only slightly.

I heard that a front suspension really slows you down on the commute - but is it really that significant on the models I mention?
Thank you.

therealjoeblow

I don't think it's an issue at all for your average commuter, and in fact, personally I prefer the front suspension for city riding on any "normal" paving, IE where I live, the pavement in general tends to be fairly rough with lots of bad joints and potholes from age and winter damage.

You are definitely going to get those "snob" replies here that will tell you that anything hybrid with front suspension is a piece of junk... just ignore them and buy what makes most sense to you!

I currently ride a 2002 Giant Sedona LX which was considered a "Comfort Mountain Bike" in its day, basically a MTB frame with a moderate suspension fork in the front, and 26x1.95 semi-smooth "hybrid" tires, and an adjustable stem to allow for a slightly more upright riding position. I adjusted mine dead flat, so for all intents and purposes, it rides and performs very much like today's hybrids, but with slightly wider tires.

I recently ordered a new 2017 Giant Roam 0, and am expecting delivery of it this week. I'm keeping the Sedona and taking it out to the lake to use as my summer cottage bike because it's still an awesome bike in excellent shape, despite its age.

I personally think the Roam is your best bang-for-the buck in the suspension hybrids. Feature for Feature, it runs around $300-$400 less than the equivalent Trek. The Roam 0 is about on par with the Trek DS 8.6 (both top of the line in their class), but is $400 lower priced.

I don't think that a front fork slows you significantly down for regular commuting, or even reasonably fast fitness riding. Maybe if you are racing and want every available advantage? But then, you wouldn't be considering *any* of these bikes, FX, DS or Roam - you would most likely go with a carbon frame road bike in that case.

If you like the MTB style hybrids, then I personally think that a front fork is a very viable comfort addition if you ride on paths, gravel roads or moderately to poorly maintained pavements.

Get the Roam, and consider upgrading from the 3 to a 2 or a 1 for better components and longevity for a fairly modest price increase. You'll enjoy that years later. My Sedona LX in 2002 was the top of its line and had Deore components. To this day, 14 years later with over 7500km on all of its original equipment except tires, chain and brake pads, it performs flawlessly! I'm glad I got the Deore drivetrain, and therefore, based on past positive results am going with the Roam 0 myself this time.

Cheers
TRJB

mickw

As an owner of a 2016 Roam 3 , I might be a bit biased , but I really like the bike.
I looked at the Trek 7.2 and Allant , both were very nice.
After reading many posts on how the forks slow the bike down , and the weight penalty , etc , I'm not seeing the problem.
I went to the local shop to look at a Giant Escape or Jamis Coda , the owner asked me what I intended to do with the bike and suggested a Roam 3 or 2 for my needs.
I'm older (57) and have some physical problems , so the fork made sense to me for vibration absorption.
The bike is fast , smooth , agile , just what I wanted.
I run a rear rack with a rack bag weighing probably 10 pounds with tools and clothing.
I still feel the bike is light , but fast and comfortable were more important to me.
After 300 or so miles , I locked the fork once for about 3 miles , and honestly didn't feel a slowdown or sluggishness of any sort , I haven't run locked since.
To each his own , ride them and decide for yourself , I never thought to look at the Roam series , but a couple test rides made my mind up for me.
If you like the local Trek dealer , try a DS series and a 7.2 and feel the difference , you'll know which one you like better.
Mick

Roamer2

I tried most of the popular bikes in the range you are looking at....and in the end the Roam 2 won out due to price, features & most importantly, fit (to me).

These bikes with the larger wheels can realy get going compared to an old school cruiser or big tire bike....and that speed really makes the front suspension nice to have on pavement transitions, drop offs, unpaved surfaces, root bumps, etc. The only time I lock it out is on long, brutal uphill climbs...then it does save some energy to not be bouncing around.

What kind of riding are you going to be doing most? If the answer is smooth paved roads to burn some calories...then you might not miss the front suspension at all. Go for fit, lightness w/ the best components.

If your riding is going to be a bit more adventursome, at speed on different surfaces, then the extra cushion really makes a difference, IMO.

prj71

Suspension not necessary for this type of riding.

mrodgers

I use to ride on dirt and gravel roads with my solid carbon fork hybrid (Giant Escape) and would have much rather had a front suspension.

Also, I ride through the high school a lot now and the cracks in the pavement is terrible. I still ride through but get a lot of discomfort riding through this roadway. Now it isn't horrible to say, but I wouldn't want to be doing it for miles on end.

I don't get the thought that a front suspension fork sucks up the power you lay down. Rear yet, every time you put torque on the pedals, it will flex the rear suspension. I don't put torque into the front suspension when I ride (I came from a cheap crappy but full suspension mountain bike.) What you are going to get is a significantly heavier bike in the front from a suspension fork. My Giant solid fork is significantly lighter than my 2 co-riders' front suspension hybrids.

travbikeman

Pictures please when that Roam 0 comes in.

I've checked it out online and that's a nice bike!

Wilfred Laurier

I think suspension is not necessary, and is more likely a net drag, for the type of riding you described. Mechanical suspension generally does not do much about the high-frequency road buzz that is most tiring to the arms - suspension absorbs bumps and rounds off the edges of square obstacles, but often doesn't move fast enough or easily enough to do much about vibrations. Tires, especially wider tires often used on hybrids and commuter bikes, are excellent at absorbing vibration. For that odd time that you are hitting bigger bumps, stand up and let your arms and legs act as suspension.

DaveQ24

Nope, not necessary, but it sure is nice. My 2013 Sp. Crosstrail Pro Disc has front suspension with a lockout, and I love it. Makes for a much smoother ride on rough surfaces, like pretty much every road in my region.

DorkDisk

I'm not a fan of suspension for roads, but this is straight out untrue. Speed is more about how fast you can pedal (cardio), how big a gear you're able to push (strength), and positioning than any piece of equipment or lack of.

prj71

Any bumps on roads can be minimized with the correct tire pressure on the hybrid bikes. Suspension works great if you are riding a mountain bike on singletrack trails, but not so much on hybrid bikes used on pavement and gravel roads/paths.

The cheap suntour suspension forks on the crosstrails and other similar bikes are useless. They are just sprung heavy forks that bob up and down a lot and the bobbing robs you of energy

Craptacular8

I own an older hard tail mtb with front suspension. Given it's gearing is typical of what is offered on today's suspension fitness bikes (48-38-28 triple in front), low travel suspension fork, it was probably just a little ahead of it's time. I bought it used to see if I would like the gearing it offered, and whether the suspension fork was something that I was likely to want in a new off the lbs floor model. Unlike many big box store mtbs, it didn't rob me of pedaling energy (the fork has little play), but it is a boat anchor climbing hills, and riding into the ever present 20+ mph winds I encounter on my daily rides. I ride a lot of gravel, railroad track crossings, roads, and paths. The bike IS comfortable, but mostly due to it's plush 2" tires, not its available suspension. There is a little difference in speed on this bike versus my non-suspension hybrid with nearly identical gearing, not huge though.

I bought a 7.2 this spring as foul weather ride after an especially brutal ride where I was turning myself inside out into headwinds...I run the stock 700x35 tires at a little lower pressure, but it rides and behaves nicely over gravel, rr crossings, pavement imperfections, etc. I figure I'll get a few hundred more miles out of the tires before upgrading, but really nice plush tires at a little lower pressure go a long ways toward a pleasant ride that doesn't accentuate every rock and pavement imperfection.

The lockout fork would make the Roam a good version of a dual sport to try out, however, I do not see lockout offered on the Roam 3, though it is on the Roam 2. Like I said, I only noticed the additional weight of my bike's ridiculously heavy forks on hills, wind, and of course accelerating (as in starting from 0 mph at a stop sign in traffic). I believe the stock Roam 2 in a medium comes in around 28 pounds if I remember correctly, which would put it only 2 pounds heavier than the stock trek 7.2. You're unlikely to notice those 2 pounds, especially in lockout mode. If you're budget is at the Roam 3 level, then I'd probably suggest you head over to the Trek DS thread, since it is a nearly identical bike....there are an awful lot of owners that seem to reveal they bought the lockout forks....and leave them locked constantly.

And finally, definitely go ride them. I thought Specialized's, Trek's and Cannondales fitness hybrids rode strikingly similar. The more upright ride of the Raleigh Tamland (store had suggested it for gravel) seemed a much harder ride...hard to accelerate, etc. I could tell immediately that something that upright, even for shorter rides, was not for me.

therealjoeblow

...See, I told you so (about this type of comment)... Stated like its a fact. IMO, I *strongly* disagree. Forks on dual sport type bikes are great depending on individual rider preference, and are very effective at smoothing out rough pavements, curbs etc. without robbing you of any energy whatsoever for general commuter type riding. I *never* ride my Sedona and say "gee I wish I had a fixed front fork"... but *every* time I ride my Norco Monterey road bike with a fixed fork, I say to myself "wow, this is brutal and punishing, what were you thinking"... and then I put it back on its hanger in the garage for the next 3 or 4 years until I forget how rough the ride is and think I should try it out again. Rinse and repeat.

And the fork is *NOT* heavy. It's 1.9kg's versus 1kg or more for a fixed fork. Seriously, that's only about 2 lbs more. Really, if you can feel that in a bike you're some kind of superman!

I agree that there are versions of Trek DS's are nearly identical to comparable Giant Roams, however, when spec-for-spec and feature-for-feature matching, the Treks are going to be about 30% more expensive. Why is that? Partially because Giant manufactures Trek's frames for them (and Scott and a few others), and there is a major cost advantage for Giant off the hop as they would naturally charge Trek more than their own cost on the frames, and Trek has no choice but to mark that up and add that to the retail prices. Nothing against Trek, they make great bikes, but again, seriously, they are virtually identical to Giants (at least the DS vs. Roam), so why pay that kind of price difference?

At the end of the day, you can debate the suspension fork issue forever on this forum with the guys who don't like them, but realistically, at 2lbs, and with available lock-out, if it's something you think you would like, there's no reason not to get one.

Cheers
TRJB

Wilfred Laurier

The piece of the puzzle you are missing is that he cost of the frame is a very small part of the whole price. A mass-manufactured Asian made aluminum frame is easily less than $100. Also, a big company like Giant may pay less for their own frames, but the standard practice would not to sell for considerably less than other similar bikes in the marketplace, but to make a little more money on each bike sold.

It's hard to say what percentage of the price of the bike goes towards what components, and there is no direct A-A, B-B comparison because every company spec their bikes differently for cost and marketing reasons. The Trek and Giant bikes I was looking at had no direct comparison - the Giant had better derailleurs, but the Trek had better wheels. The Trek had nicer stem and bars, but the Giant had a better fork.

In the end, these differences are minor and practically meaningless. The primary characteristic of a bike that makes it good or bad is how well it fits the rider, and that is not something that is determined by the cost of manufacture.

DorkDisk

At any price point these forks siphon resources away from frame, wheels, and drivetrain.

Many people ride off-road on fully rigid bikes. If youre riding a rigid bike like a full suspension rig or a front suspension rig, youre doing it wrong.

Tire volume and pressure are the first place to look at for bicycle comfort, and has been for a very long time. This is not anything new. Once you exceed what tires can do, look elsewhere.

Disliking two steel tubes with a coil spring inside with no damping does not make one a snob. Apparently to some people here, I am some kind of Superman as I can feel two pounds of difference on a bike.

Pendergast

+1

prj71

Not only is it fact, it is common knowledge.

So in your opinion, not fact, you....

I'm not saying I don't like them, but the Suntour forks on these bikes are junk. There is no real benefit for them. I have a front suspension fork on my mountain bike and I love it!!! But it's not junk. It's air sprung and can be adjusted for my weight and has rebound adjustment.

therealjoeblow

We're not ever going to end this debate on forks and agree, so this will be my last comment, you can go on with the debate without me...

I agree, forks on $5k true MTB's are high-end kit... But the Suntour forks on $1k hybrids are *not* junk. They are well-made, and perform appropriately for their intended use, which I will also agree is not anywhere near what the MTB fork is intended for.

Now, no-name forks made with simple stamped tubes on $200 big-box or walmart bikes *are* junk, I will also agree with that.

Anyway, we are all entitled to our opinion, and I stated my comments as such. I just wish everyone else would too.

Cheers and all the best in making a decision that makes you happy!
TRJB

coominya

If you're considering suspension with a lockout then you obviously will want that feature and you better spend big to get ones that actually work. My last ride wouldn't lockout fully and over days the forks would actually compress and stay compressed. It was a Scott MB but a cheaper one.

Personally I hate the feeling of the forks jiggling even a bit as a pedal along but my son doesn't care. So it all boils down to your preferences and probably whether you spin fast or pedal slow. I spin and any bounce in the frame on smooth road puts me off.
Good luck with your choice

coominya

Quite true, most brand new motorcycles sold today even come out with crap suspension that you either have to replace immediately or lock up really tight to avoid a bouncing ride. Those unfamiliar with what quality rebound and compression damping provide to the experience of cycling simply accept the poor performance of stock suspension as the norm. Average priced Push bike suspension has very poor damping options. It is like 1970's motorcycle technology.
Of course if you have something like the forks discussed in the following link then know the score.

Trail Tech: Rebound and compression adjustment explained - BikeRadar Australia

AU Tiger

I don't have a dog in the fight, and I can honestly see both sides of the debate. Since I'm considering the Roam as a second bike for off-road riding, I decided to look for reviews on just the Suntour NEX HLO fork (as opposed to bike reviews). I didn't find much in the way of reviews, but I did come across this video which I thought was interesting. Not sure how typical this is of all these kinds of bikes or if this would change as the fork ages, but it shows the travel of the suspension during a ride. I post it here not to tell anyone whether they should or shouldn't like a suspension fork, but just as one more piece of evidence to help folks make their own decision.

coominya

Hey great video Autiger, that guy certainly got a good little workout. I liked the camera angle too.

travbikeman

That was a great video AU Tiger! Thanks! Makes me wonder why no one has yet done this on a rails to trails yet. Hmmmmm might have to invest in one of these cameras and do this while on the C n O canal.

rnothog

I'm not a bicycle engineer, or a physicist, but I play one on the internet.

There isn't a lot of difference in the front suspensions when the adjustable one is locked out, except that one doesn't have to be locked out and can give you some comfort at the expense of a little efficiency.

Mine stays locked 98 percent of the time...and that includes on canal trails here in Phoenix. I sometimes unlock it over really bad pavement, and it makes a difference. I have no complaints about the quality - I'm not expecting to do true off road mountain biking (and Arizona has a lot of that).

People don't buy hybrids to ride the Tour D'France. Or to climb Mount Whatever on a single track trail. They buy them to get started, get fit, get around, or have lots of fun. They're heavier than road bikes, generally, so who cares about what fork you like? I could agree with comments about excessive weight from the fork if we were talking about super fit riders on road bikes going for speed, but that doesn't describe most hybrid riders.

Qualifier: I ride a Giant Roam 1. Used to own a steel Univega Alpina mountain bike...before suspension forks were common. It was heavy...the Roam is pretty darned light by comparison. My next bike will be something more road-oriented because I have friends who do that. But I can do moderate trails, if I want, and stay right around 14 MPH on a level surface with no stoplights or sharp corners. I doubt I'd be much faster on an FX or Sirrus.

Wilfred Laurier

I think that vid of the suspension fork is the cat's pyjamas. My opinion that a hybrid bike is generally not made better by a suspension fork is not because the forks 'rob power' (I don't think that is true at all, btw) but a belief that the basic suspension forks on most hybrids are not good quality and so don't actually move much under normal riding conditions. But this video, and another I found of a lighter rider on a rougher road, show a very inexpensive fork (found te NEX for $93 at one site) doing what looks like a good job. I am not rushing out to buy a new fork for my touring bike, but my eyes have been opened.