Robert P

Got a bike at a LBS a few months ago. One of the things I've gotten there is a Selle Royal gel seat hoping to get more comfort than the stock seat. Got this particular seat on the recommendation of the shop owner. It's marginally more comfortable than the stock seat but I was still having issues. I found a Sunlite Cloud 9 cruiser seat on ebay for about 30% less than the LBS was selling it for so I ordered it.

My experience with ebay overall has been okay but this seat got lost in a USPS black hole in Jersey City. After one USPS scan showing up, nothing for a couple of weeks. The original delivery estimate was 5 business days. I complained, the Ebay seller refunded my money as his first response and I went to the LBS to buy the seat.

The ebay seat did eventually show up. There would be no point in the seller paying to ship the seat back to him since he'd lose money on it paying for postage twice. I've already bought the same seat elsewhere and I'm not going to pay yet again to ship it back. So trying to do the right thing, as a potential solution for the ebay seller to get something out of it, when I went in to the LBS to get my 90-day tuneup I related the above story and asked if he'd like to buy it off me for whatever he pays his supplier and I'd send the ebay seller the money. It's a brand-new seat, tagged, still in the plastic shipping bag, identical to the ones the LBS sells in their shop. As it is, I have a free seat I have no use for, I was just trying to make the ebay seller whole.

He didn't have any interest in this transaction. He said that supposedly manuf's sell defective merchandise to online sellers and there's too much potential for problems. The ebay seller also has a brick and mortar store - all his items are available for local pickup as well. On close examination I see no obvious flaws in the seat - from what I can tell it's indistinguishable from the one I got from the LBS.

Whatever, it's his prerogative of course, but I noticed both he and his assistant seemed to cop an attitude. Apparently I mortally offended them by attempting to buy an item elsewhere. As I mentioned I was there for a tuneup. The last two were done in a few hours. This time it sat in the corner all day and didn't get touched other than to put a ticket tag on it. I picked it up again near closing since it's going to be a week before I can get back there and didn't want to be without a bike for a week. I doubt I'm going to take it back at all, or patronize the shop again. I'm sure I can do my own bike tweaks and this isn't the only bike shop in the area.

I've gotten from this LBS:

-A new bike
-Helmet
-Rearview mirror
-Chain lube
-Fairly pricey Abus lock and cable set
-A $10 Giant branded water bottle that I'll bet represents at least $5 in profit - again he insisted it was superior to the less expensive bottles he sells, toxins in the plastic and all.
-A set of Sunlite fenders that I still haven't installed
-A $50 seat that he steered me to that I haven't found to be satisfactory
-Another $34 seat that's more comfortable than the $50 seat he sold me, albeit after a failed attempt to buy it online. He's not the only bike shop, I could have gotten it elsewhere. Had I known what the guy's attitude was going to be I would have.

I sense I'm now on their f-you list. The assistant said he "despises it" when people buy online rather than support a local business - the fact that the online vendor is himself a mom and pop shop notwithstanding. The above purchases apparently don't count for anything in their mind if I don't feel compelled to pay 30% more for everything and they also don't consider word of mouth that's now not going to happen. Keep in mind this shop's return policy is they don't take returns. That pricey gel seat I said you should get isn't cutting it? Oh well.

Thoughts?

DowneasTTer

Well as both an ebay seller and buyer my first thought would be to return the seat to the vendor in the first place. But that's just me. Plus I always pay extra for insurance on both sides of seller/buyer wall for my protection. Other than that I've GOT NOTHING

Robert P

This seller only offered parcel select shipping and there was a completely unrealistic shipping time listed in the auction. Even the USPS estimate was wrong by 10 days. The seller should be aware of issues with a particular method of shipping and say something about it in the auction if he knows the ebay estimates are fantasy. I don't feel any obligation to return the seat at my expense.

syncro87

I buy a lot of stuff online since I have Amazon Prime. It's a screaming deal. I got a whole exhaust system for my truck shipped to my house overnight for something like a $12 upcharge. It had to have cost them far more than that, but hey, it said free shipping with Prime.

That being said, I can see where an LBS or just about anyone else in brick and mortar retail these days would probably be taking a beating from online discount sellers with low overhead and a big warehouse somewhere. I would venture a guess that the guys at Best Buy, bike stores, and other places get shopped when people come in to check stuff out in person, they go home and order online. Not saying you did this, but I can see where a retail shop of any nature is probably on a raw nerve right now regarding anything to do with online sales. It would get really old to constantly get beat down on price by some place with no overhead 100 miles away, while I had a showroom and employees and a convenient air conditioned location 5 miles from your house that I had to pay rent on. I get both sides of the issue. Money is tight for me, and local service is also worth something. It's tough sometimes.

I'm not trying to be difficult here, or insulting, I'm just going to give you my first impression gut reaction since you are asking, having read your story. If I was in that shop, and you came in proposing that I buy your seat from you, I'd be like, are you crazy? What are we, a return depot for some guy who sold you something cheap online and then gave crappy service?

Now, if I had the shop, I'd totally have some kind of policy in place to help you out if the gel seat you bought from me was defective, etc. But something from another source, no way.

If I was the guys at your shop, it would not at all offend me that you bought something online. I'm sure they do too. But when you came in my store asking me to buy something from you that you got online, no way, I have to admit I would be like WTF. Quite frankly, I'd be incredulous that someone would even attempt that.

At no point would I, if I were you right now, be hostile toward the shop since they had no interest in taking your eBay seat back. Not one bit. I would never have even gone down that road. I'd have given the seat to a local place that fixes up bikes to raise money for charity or the less fortunate to have access to used old bikes. I know we have something like that in Kansas City. It would not have even occurred to me to attempt what you did, and it strikes me as mildly insulting to the shop.

But hey, that is just me, and I might be an oddball or freak. I'm just throwing my 2 cents out there since you asked. No offense intended at all and I hope I'm not off base. It wouldn't be the first time.

dynaryder

My $.02:

You got the seat. Send it back,or give the seller some money.

I can't imagine a shop buying a part off someone they bought from anywhere else.

Completely possible they didn't get to your bike right away because they were busy.

Maybe the folks at the shop could've been more diplomatic,but I'm siding with them on this one.

Robert P

No, that's not my issue with the LBS at all. I couldn't care less if he buys the seat or not, I was just trying to make an effort to give the ebay seller something without stupidly spending my own money when I feel the ebay seller made an error. I'm not paying to ship this thing back. If he'd bought the seat my net out of the deal is -0-, plus whatever time/effort on my part getting the money to the ebay seller. If the LBS guy doesn't want it, whatever - I made an effort.

My issue with the LBS guy is the attitude they were throwing - and the obvious degradation in service - i.e. my bike (and a pile of accessories) that I bought from him cooling in the corner rather than getting worked on.

I don't see how it would be insulting to them, he stood to make a modest profit off it, exactly the same as he does with the identical seats he already sells - and doesn't take returns on - "All sales final". Why should he be any more insulted buying it off me than from his regular supplier? If he'd trimmed $5 or whatever off the price he normally pays I wouldn't know the difference, and wouldn't really care.

It was clear his attitude was from my having attempted to buy an item elsewhere. Apparently his customers are supposed to be understanding re: his no returns policy when every major retailer takes returns on many/most items - including Ebay items, but apparently he feels resentful if I don't want to pay a premium price for an item I'm stuck with if it doesn't do the job. Part of the LBS experience is supposed to be their knowledge and insight, which in this case simply proved to be him selling me a more expensive item that didn't work as well for me as a less expensive item he could have sold me in the first place.

syncro87

We're overanalyzing it here, but I have some free time and nothing else to do right now, hence the long response. lol...

I wasn't there, so I can't really say. But my gut feeling is that they are not offended that you bought something online. It's that you bought something online then had the audacity to try to work out some kind of deal with me (speaking as the brick and mortar guy) to help your your online seller. Why in the world would I have the slightest interest in helping out the online seller so he could get some money back from you? From the shop owner point of view, you already did stupidly spend your own money by buying something online, sight unseen, when you could have paid a little more and had better service up front at my store.

So I think he's upset not at your having bought online per se, but I think I too would be offended when you tried to work out a deal with me on some online item to help out some dude 1000 miles away. I can totally see why someone would consider your attempted deal completely ridiculous and somewhat offensive perhaps. Yep.

First of all, if I buy something from you on the street, it's used. I can't sell it as new in my store. I can't warrant it, because I have no recourse with my supplier. Are you going to warrant the item like his wholesaler would, since you are in fact the wholesaler now? No. So he's selling a used seat. What in the world does he have to gain to even make it worth messing with this. This aside from the fact that the end result if he helps you out is that he really isn't helping you...he's helping the online retailer. You have already said you don't care, so he's not helping you.

I'm not excusing his attitude with you or being slow to repair your bike in retaliation. Nope, that is probably not acceptable. But think about it. When you offend someone, and since it's his livelihood he probably takes the business personally, what kind of service are you going to get? If I am rude and abrasive to a service provider, I'm probably not going to get as much "house" when I go in there versus a store where I treat the people well and they like me.

All I can say is that I can see how what you did was offensive to them. They perceived you as rude and offensive. I'm not saying it excuses them treating you poorly. I am somewhat amazed that you even thought it was appropriate to attempt to sell the shop your seat from someone else. That totally blows my mind. But apparently you think it's ok, and normal, and don't see how that would offend someone. Ok, then. We have a difference of opinion there, but no biggie.

It sounds like this might not be the friendliest shop in the world AND you probably didn't exactly make any friends doing what you did, either. A little of both. I don't know. Others smarter than me will chime in.

DowneasTTer

You read the seller's description and shipping TOS and still bid on the item whether is was unrealistic shipping time in your option or not. The problem it appears is NOT the seller but the USPS or ebay. It's cool that you don't feel any obligation to the vendor. You asked for thoughts I just gave you one. However, my though now is that if you feel the need to justify keeping the seat to me so you do indeed feel some obligation. Good luck, enjoy your free saddle and please post your ebay user id so I can add it to my non-bidding list.

hueyhoolihan

i wouldn't be surprised if the copped attitude was a normal response to the preposterous request to involve the LBS in you ebay issue.

Robert P

That absolutely is why. The one guy outright said he "despises" it when people buy online instead of supporting a local business, disregarding the business I've done with them.

Not a matter of charity, he could sell the seat for a profit.

There's nothing wrong with the seat, it just took too long to get it. If there *was* something wrong with it or even if I just don't care for it, I'm guaranteed of getting my money back from ebay, which I -don't- get with the LBS. What better service? He previously sold me a more expensive seat that he won't take a return on that didn't do the job as well as a less expensive seat that he could have just as easily sold me in the first place.

Okay, even if what you've said is correct I made it clear to the guy what the scenario was - I wasn't trying to scam him, I get nothing out of it, he potentially might make a few bucks. I didn't feel resentment that he didn't want to buy the seat, I feel resentment that I've spent a fair amount of money with the guy and this doesn't seem to earn any goodwill and his thinking seems to run along a one-way street.

But whatever, you've indicated what your thoughts are.

syncro87

I'm not trying to debate you, my friend, or to excuse poor behavior of the shop staff. I have nothing against you, and hope nothing other than you getting a good resolution with your seat issue. If I could wave a magic wand and get your seat thing resolved, I would. This is way too small an issue to debate point by point. You asked for an opinon, it was given.

I guess what I was trying to say in a lot more longwinded way, without ruffling any feathers, was basically what hueyhoolihan said above. I was merely attempting to portray the situation from their perspective to help you understand why they were likely offended by your visit.

Best of luck, hope it gets resolved for you to your satisfaction. Sorry if I came across as adversarial, not my intent at all.

Whiteknight

Something you might want to consider.
How long a gel padded seat lasts depends on how much you use the bike and where you store it. Some of these padded seats break down with use and time. In addition, sometimes you go to buy an identical seat to replace a comfortable one that wore out only to find that one is not made anymore. My wife loves her Bontrager Cruiser CRZ+ seat. She gets about 3 years out of a seat before it starts to break down and be uncomfortable. So there are two spares stored in a closet here in the house.

VegasTriker

#1 mistake was choosing an LBS with a "no return whatsoever" policy. That would be enough to send me back out the door never to return. If they give you the wrong part that's just tough. I know there are people who abuse the return policy. It should have to be unused and in new shape but mistakes get made and they should be correctable.

#2 would be to blindly accept the LBS statement that parts sold on eBay and at online stores are defective or seconds. I think the BS in this LBS store stands for bu#@s*&t. Most parts come in the original packaging and are often sealed. I have never gotten a "second" or defective part from an eBay supplier. Sometimes they are just brand new older versions of what is now being sold by the LBS but the ones I have bought were accurately described in the offering. Sometimes it is the only place you can get a replacement part for an older bike which doesn't have the most modern components.

It is a tough business and I have been on both sides of the counter. It is much tougher with the advent of the internet and large on-line stores. I rarely enter any of my local LBSs. It is not only a lot less expensive but far less time consuming to order online. I don't have to drive to the store only to find they don't stock what I need. Since I ride recumbents and there are no stores selling recumbents in my community it is even less likely I will find what I need at my LBS.

I wouldn't consider taking anything I had bought online to the LBS. Not even to have it installed unless I tried to buy it at the store and had an agreement to install something they could not supply. Nor can I defend the owner's attitude. He is telling you to go elsewhere. Take the hint and find a different shop.

jeepseahawk

In a nutshell, you stiffed the ebay seller and offended the LBS. I read it twice and do not see where you contacted ebayer to send saddle back, the saddle is not free.

CompleteStreets

Your heart is in the right place, but I can see why the LBS was taken aback. Think of it like this: You buy a sandwich from a food truck on the street. Something unforeseen happens and you decide you're going to abandon eating the sandwich. You figure out a way to make the food truck guy happy if you can involve an indoor restaurant down the street. Then you propose that the indoor restaurant should buy the sandwich you bought from the food truck. OK, food is a little different from bicycle seats, but hopefully my exaggerated example will help you understand where the bike shop guys were coming from.

Taking your side for a second … they have a no return policy and they told you they "despise" online retailers. If both those things bother you, simply stop shopping there and find another bike shop. If there are no good alternative bike shops, well you're kind of stuck with that bike shop. Let bygones be bygones and accept the situation for what it is.

Machka 

1. I'm not surprised the LBS did not buy the seat from you. I would have been surprised if they had. How do they know that the saddle didn't "fall off the back of a truck".

2. Never tell an LBS that you're shopping elsewhere, whether that it at another LBS or online.

3. If an LBS won't let you try a saddle for at least a week before you're committed to it, find another LBS.

4. Pay the ebay seller.

AdrianFly

I read somewhere around here that it's customary to tip your bike mechanic with a 6 pack of beer so to as ensure exceptional service.

mustang1

+1

Machka 

I missed the bolded comments on the first reading.

You were refunded for the saddle, and then the saddle showed up. Easy ... send the ebay seller the money you were refunded, with an apology to the ebay seller.

Robert P

You're ignoring the issue of a window during which an item is useful. It didn't show up in anything like a timely fashion. Had it done so I wouldn't have needed to get a duplicate. He couldn't guarantee it *would* show up. Am I supposed to sit around with my thumb up my nose speculating whether it's ever going to arrive? Now the original ebay seat is useless to me.

Machka 

But now you have the saddle and your money back. It doesn't sound like it was the fault of the ebay seller that the saddle arrived late. Do the decent thing and pay for the saddle.

Robert P

It was his fault for using an unreliable delivery method.

You sound like someone who's been sheltered from certain realities.

You hire a band for your party, they're supposed to be ready to play at 1PM. You give them a hefty deposit. They show up at 1AM with all their gear. Hey, they're there, you have the band now. Where's the rest of their money?

I did the decent thing, I paid him immediately as I do on all ebay auctions. He had my money in his hand. Three weeks later I still didn't have a bike seat.

Which do you think he'd rather have - the $5 or so in profit he stood to make and a big fat neutral or negative feedback and 1-star ratings on the item details which I guarantee he'd have gotten which seriously effects his seller status or a positive feedback and high ratings?

Machka 

The Postal Service? He picked a viable delivery method. As much you're trying to justify possessing, and then trying to sell, a saddle that you did not pay for, it was not the ebay seller's fault.


Do the decent thing and either 1) pay the ebay seller back; or 2) return the saddle.

Oh, and give the ebay seller a good rating.

yote223

Roger That! Definitely a bonehead maneuver.

Rowan

Did the OP pay for postage as part of the eBay purchase? I know that unless it is specified in the listing as Free Freight/Postage, I am obligated to pay the freight/postage cost.

Just what is the story here? Was the listing Free Postage? Or was it paid for by the purchaser?

In either case, I think the OP is obligated to send the seat back to the vendor, or pay entirely what he agreed to pay on the eBay purchase. Let's make it clear -- good faith is part of the whole deal here. The vendor used the postage service in good faith, and in good faith refunded the purchase price after the OP complained about non-receipt. It seems the OP should himself show some good faith here.

As to the LBS... I have no doubt that they are legally required to take their product from suppliers only. If they were to introduce into stock a new saddle that was not on the sales list from their wholesaler, they could be in a whole lot of trouble, putting at risk a whole raft of products that they put on their shelves.

It was bad form to offer the saddle for any price to the LBS. In fact, OP's shown bad form all round in this thread, verging on audacious fraud, in my opinion.