WalksOn2Wheels

Yeah, I know. It's another one of those threads.

Long story short: I had ACL replacement surgery a few months ago and have only been allowed to go back on pavement for the last week. My initial thought was to keep it slow and not put myself in any dangerous situations, so I thought the MUP would be safer than traffic. So two weekends in a row, I go to the nearby MUP in the early A.M. What a cluster.

And to be clear, the joggers and walkers aren't even the real problem. It's the idiot cyclists. Each weekend I saw two folks riding in aerobars on NARROW, WINDING trails with BLIND corners. To be fair, the second guy was only going like 12 mph, kind of defeating the purpose of aerobars, but still. And just yesterday, I was coming up on a nearly blind turn and see two massive cyclists coming at me in my lane because they were passing some walkers. Thank goodness at least one of us was paying attention, so that I could slow down to avoid them smashing into me and risk re-injuring my knee. I very briskly reminded them to watch the freaking corners. Another guy in a different spot decided he had to show his massive power and pass as many people as possible in one jump, but requiring me to slow and move to the right so that he didn't wreck into me.

Just way too much risky behavior from the cyclists. No wonder people ***** about us all the time.

But yeah, I've decided playing in traffic is safer.

rpenmanparker 

Always has been. Always will be.

PaulRivers

It largely depends on what your mup is like, and what the surrounding roads are like.

I live in Minneapolis, where our MUP is like this:


We even have some sections that have a separate lane for bikers going east, west, and pedestrians -


It's surrounded by the most dangerous intersections for bike/car crashes -
twin city sidewalks: Lessons from the 2013 Minneapolis Bicycle Crash Report

So in my case, I think the MUP is definitely safer. At least if you give joggers a bodywidth of room in case they suddenly turn around out of nowhere.

However, I've seen pics of other people's mups - 2 lanes barely wider than a sidewalk, mixed pedestrian/bike/jogging/dog walking traffic, twisty with lot of turns - it's a whole different thing.

gamby

OMFG that "divided highway" setup is incredible. WOW.

MUP's around here are sketchy (especially on the weekends), but generally OK as long as you pay attention.

I still think they're less deadly than dealing with texting 16 y/o drivers.

mustang1

@PaulRivers: wow they are some cool mups! @walkedonwheels: thats a pita. ppl are selfish/inconsiderate/unaware. idk what u call it but "stupid" pretty much covers it all.

Campag4life

Go ride in traffic OP and get back with us as to what is safer.
No matter what environment you ride you need the skills to survive.

piratusus

I have jogged down that stretch of path, I stayed in St. Louis Park for work a few times it is indeed very nice.

So far I am only riding the MUP in my area - my wife won't let me ride on the roads - a cyclist was killed less than 5 miles from our house by a truck.

PaulRivers

I don't know what your area is like, so I don't want to make any claims to safety. Some areas with roads I feel are just as safe if not safer on the bike than they are while driving, while others have configurations that are entirely unsafe for biking. It really depends on your roads, traffic, etc.

But I would point out that if you look at the news, I bet there's people in your area killed in car accidents every day. To me, the tradeoff is that you're slightly less safe on a bike vs auto traffic, but that's made up for by the increased exercise and health you get from biking. Off-road bike trails are safer if available still, and like I said I think some roads are insane to ride on, but other roads I think overall are no less safe than driving - if it's a good road for biking. We're just so used to people being killed in car accidents that we don't even notice it.

BoSoxYacht

I was hit by a truck, traveling at 45-50mph, less than a mile from home. It can happen anywhere motorists travel.

K.Katso

They're almost all like that where I live, except they are called "bike paths" instead of "multi-use paths." Walkers and dog-walkers use the completely separate sidewalk most of the time. The whole idea of "multi-use" is destined to fail from the start if you ask me, just too much speed differential, even when going slow. Putting along on a bike is pretty fast on foot. I would rather ride on the road with the cars than on most MUPs. They definitely aren't a place to race, that's for sure.

Campag4life

Shouldn't ask you. Too much speed differential on a MUP? Now that is funny. How about playing dodge 'em cars on the street? Speed differential (and mass) on the street is precisely why it is more dangerous to ride on the street.

Rowan

Your age must be getting in the way of your ability to read. The OP now has decided that riding in traffic is preferable to riding on the MUPs in his area.

FLvector

I hear many rag on about never riding on their MUP's due to the high traffic of walkers, joggers, rec bikes, etc. Although I tend to stay away from the MUP's on the weekends, they are barely used on week nights. In most cases, the walkers and kids on bikes, etc. filter out after the first mile or two, then its clear sailing where you can get up to speed with little concern. There's a few MUP's that interconnect that allow for 60+ miles of traffic free training, with an occasional crossroad that you have to negotiate. It is a good alternative on week nights as people are mindlessly driving home from work with their heads buried in their cell phones and other distractions. So remember, your MUP is probably very different than the next persons.

welshTerrier2

To quote that inimitable sage, Yogi Berra: "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."

I avoid MUPs on busy weekends too. It seems to me, though, that if their main drawback is how popular they are, it makes a great argument to build more of them. Maybe if more MUPs were built, the few that exist now wouldn't be quite as crowded.

Campag4life

Rather your inability to comprehend what I wrote.

Campag4life

You haven't seen many MUP's. They aren't close to being equivalent. The MUP I ride on thousands of miles a year is a road and perfectly safe.

FLvector

And another favorite quote from Yogi: "If you don't know where you're going, you might not get there."

WalksOn2Wheels

Campag, prior to my accident, I did lots of miles on roads, including a good summer of 50 mile round trip commuting on roads that most cyclist would avoid like the plague. I can truly say I regularly rode the 25 mile route with zero close calls vs two weekends of 15ish miles each of the local MUP with enough close calls that I stopped bothering to count.

Like others have mentioned, not all MUP's are created equal. The one close to me is very narrow and winding with lots of trees.

Ok, so I think I lied a little bit. I will go back to the MUP's when everyone has given up on them because it's below freezing in the morning.

ls01

Hey! Im a people, you take that back!

piratusus

Do you have proof of that? If there is not a picture, it didn't happen...

furiousferret

All mups are different. Luckily mine is 20 miles long with one blind corner. Typically you can see for at least 100 yards ahead. Its also not very congested and close to zero pedestrian traffic. Since it was funded with traffic money allocated towards cyclists, people feel somewhat entitled to use it as a commuter path.

I've never agreed with the mup concept for 2 reasons; dogs and kids. Neither have the cognitive awareness to stay away from cyclists no matter what speed. That being said, I have yelled at more than one cyclist for crossing into my lane and almost hitting me. Paceline and group rides should be on roads.

Dave Cutter

I love that quote!

The problem isn't that the MUPs are too crowded.... anymore than our roadways are too crowded. The MUPs have the same problem that our streets and roads have. They are too congested in the high traffic areas. Congestion.... by it's very nature can't be fixed. People (sheep and cattle) gravitate to where others also gather.

On my weekend MUP travels.... I like to think of the higher population (congested) areas as rest areas. I slow down when traffic is high then pick up the pace when once again in the rural areas.

Many of the MUP's are "park" owned recreational areas. Parks are NOT the highest priorities in most government budgets. But they are the least regulated and often where you find elected officials relatives working. Parks alter and change with the times. Todays bicycle path.... may be tomorrows nature walk through a restored wet land.

The White House has a plan that will re-develop many of Ohio's rails to trails (MUPs) to a high speed rail line. Plans have been made, contracts awarded, and money spent.

Sullalto

Yes, I commute 9 miles on a mup. Usually get on it around 9:30, 10:00pm. I've gone several days in a row without seeing anybody. Weekend afternoons can be much different. And yeah, it's usually other cyclists that annoy me more than anything else.


I had one a couple months ago, every time I tried to pass, she drove me off the path. I don't think it was intentional, I just think she was a terrible bike handler. She sounded contrite when she apologized at least. And then she drove me into the rocks again.

She was on a Cervelo S5, too. I was like, 'stop running me off-road...and let's trade bikes'

Rowan

You wrote very specifically that the OP needs to go ride in traffic then get back to us about which is safer. Yes?

The OP prefers riding in traffic, because that is what he normally does. As I comprehended from his thread-starter, his follow-up post, and other posts he has made on BFs.

Campag4life

Give it time. He hasn't been run off the road or god forbid run over yet.

Its ludicrous to say riding on a MUP is more perilous than riding on the road...notably because of physics, conservation of momentum. Mass and speed differential. What may be applicable and certainly not on the MUP I ride is...it 'can' be more inconveniencing to ride on a MUP because for safety based upon traffic, you can't ride wide open like you can on the road. On the MUP I ride you can ride 30 mph for mile after mile if you want. That is the distinction. But equating the safety of each is absurd. M * V = M * V If a 2 ton car contacts your 18 lb bike, bad things happen. By contrast, yes you can get hurt crashing with another bicycle on a MUP but you will likely live. Most that don't understand this either didn't take high school physics or flunked.