Metieval

a person can derive happiness from eating an apple, just as well as eating chemical laden ice cream.

a person can also find happiness in being healthy. Will you now claim that by abusing your body for 5 years brought you happiness?

happiness is a choice. if your happiness is dependent on what you eat then you are doing it wrong. You should know this , you are the one that abused your body for 5 years. your words!




as far as the brain goes, sugar is more addicting than heroin. people that defend eating sugar in moderation sound just like the people that defend the heroin addicts.


America is known for being obese..... which also explains the number of weight loss topics. If people ate healthy to begin with, we wouldn't be on the weight loss issue.


you can do whatever you want (i predict a repeat of your last 5 years). as for me I'll be eating clean food, and staying with the intermittent fasting.

JoeKahno

Unconvinced? Ok. I'm under no obligation to convince or persuade you.

Disingenuous? Can you cite a single reputable study as evidence that anything Dr. Fung said is false or misleading? Or is it just that the data he presents conflicts with your personal bias?

livedarklions

You still doing high intensity interval training daily during three day fasts? I predict you might not be around in five years.

Metieval

I've made it for 10 years doing this why would the next 5 or 10 be any different?



eat to live, don't live to eat.

livedarklions

You are quite possibly doing damage to the cardiac muscle that won't be obvious until it's too late.

You're telling a bunch of people who are doing well that it's going to stop working for them at some time. You're also accusing people without any basis whatsoever of having "food addiction". This alarmist, clearly food-phobic behavior is still not normal, and you clearly have eating issues yourself.

bruce19

When I was playing football in college (1964-1968) I was 5'10 1/2" and 180-190 lbs. In 1969 when I finished Basic Training at Ft. Jackson I was 178 lbs. These days, at age 73, I am 5'8" and 185-189 lbs. Just a baseline. In the past 10 years I have tried many approaches to weight loss. My goal is 180 lbs. My experience is this: to lose weight, eat less (marginally), eat real food and be active every day you can. Simply exercising will not result in a permanent weight loss. Cutting my calories severely and/or zeroing on carbs just left me weak and unhappy. One thing that has helped is knowing the difference between "hungry" and "not full." These days I eat when I'm hungry. I don't eat because it's breakfast time or lunch time. And, if I eat, say, 1/2 a sandwich and I'm no longer hungry, the other 1/2 is saved for later. Seems to be working nicely and I've been really good on the bike. That's my experience.

Metieval

I am , or I possibly Am. I need that clarified. you really don't have a clue. *hint* you use "possibly"

As far as the "food addiction" statement goes... It's true. Look at the fast food industry, the frozen meal industry, the processed food industry, the convenience store industry, Hostess, little debbie snacks, Been to a fair recently and looked at the fried foods?
hydrogenated oils. processed foods feed the addiction.

think you are not addicted, then don't fast ... just don't eat any processed foods or drink any caffeine (drug) for the next 30 days, and let's see how you and your cravings get along. Exactly, it is a challenge you won't do because.... addiction!

you accuse me of eating issues because I fast ( our bodies were designed to fast). Not an issue or disorder, it's healthy. You accuse me of having eating issues because I am on the war path against fast food, processed food, sugar, hydrogenated oils, caffeine abuse, processed sugars, corn syrup, HFCS.....etc.. it's a long list.
yeah I am different than you, that doesn't mean I have issues. It's just that I am awake as to why Millions of people are dying to diabetes, heart issues, obesity issues.

I have first hand seen health issues cured via fasting.

I am not food Phobic at all. My re-feeds just happen to be healthy and real food, not food like substance, nor GMO substance, nor hybrid grown, nor seedless, And now you might get a glimpse into why I can eat less, because my food has value!

Happy Feet

What is clean food? Does that mean you wash it?

Another first world buzz word that I suspect won't be around in 5 years ie. "fat free". Remember when that was so important to health.

Almost every plant based food, and every animal in commercial livestock production, is genetically modified. Creating a non science based bias around the method of modification without scientific fact is either a faith based decision or irrational fear.

Against big corp? The "organic" movement is now a multi billion dollar large corporation entity that wields as much control over producers as any other for profit enterprise.

Food is just food. Try not to make it into a eugenic exercise.

Flip Flop Rider

this sounds right to me

and as far as what to eat, I thought we came to an agreement earlier in the thread that says calories in calories out is all that matters

livedarklions

You do you, man. I just would not be at all surprised that someone who stresses his heart daily while not taking in any calories for 72 hours drops dead suddenly from a heart attack, and the only reason I haven't just put you on ignore at this point is in case answering your nonsense might make the risk of someone else adopting your clearly self-destructive path just a little lower.

I have seen people die by abusing fasting, you want to trade anecdotes? And no, intermittent fasting has nothing to do with 72 hour fasts while undergoing HIIT daily.

Again, the franticness with which you attack total strangers' eating and fitness habits, and accuse them of having imaginary maladies and addictions is a symptom of someone who clearly has real problems.

burnthesheep

In some of your posts you're relying pretty heavily on hyperbole (an apple vs. chemical laden ice cream) and then in this post you state a bunch of principles that the average joe clubbie cyclist probably already does anyway.

I don't know anyone on the A-ride that downs fast food or are on some kind of trash-food obese person's diet. Nor the B-ride for that part.

That argument may fly for the average joe who is borderline obese, it doesn't really for most folks in BF.

I haven't raced enough to move up, but I hold even with our local Cat 3 guys and can drop a couple of em. I eat dessert, with sugar in it. I drink beer and wine, with alcohol in it. I drink coffee, with caffeine in it.

You're trying to apply an extremist/purist mentality to it when moderation gets even the obese person 95% of the way there.

To me, even that 5% ain't worth living a life in which you deprive yourself of these "addictions".

I'm not going to be a Cat 1 racer because I stop drinking any alcohol or any coffee or eating any dessert. I'm already equal/smaller than your average local Cat 3 racer. It's all in the available training time and years under the belt.

Don't try to apply extremes to arguments in which it isn't necessary.

If someone is about to freaking die because they're so obese, then maybe some extreme measures are in order.

But c'mon, get real here. If Phil Gaimon can take World Tour rider KOM's and still eats cookies and have seen him drink a beer in one of his videos.........you can enjoy some foods.

If you have a phobia that food addiction will ruin your life OR short your lifespan by perhaps a single year, you need to see a the******. Seriously, no joke, no funny, not arguing.

Why is a the "t-word" spelling of psychiatrist filtered in this forum. The******. WTF?

Metieval

And how many Do you know in Cat 3 that needs to be losing weight? or in the A group or B groups.

that's right, not many. we are talking in "general cycling" and those that need to lose weight.

that weight loss will be via their mouths, not the bicycle.


as for your average joe clubbie.... I just saw 3,000 cyclist more than 75% of them were obese or had beer guts. then again they were all riding to eat donuts. because spiking your isulin is fun they said, come live a little they said. Everyone is doing it they said.


be different, be healthy, and they throw the "phobic" insult.

OBoile

And that's where I realized there wouldn't be any value in watching those videos.

bruce19

I'd be shocked if we came to an agreement on anything.

Metieval

I doubt it.... maybe starvation, but not fasting. I wouldn't expect everyone to know the difference though.

the way you dropped previous comments about "eating empty calories", that if you do know someone that died, they died from malnutrition , not fasting!!!

radroad

Ha! My BMI is now either 25.1 or 24.9 depending on whether I use my morning or evening height. I am officially no longer overweight!

But seriously, yes, I am, as my lean mass is not where it should be, and my body fat is unfortunately still too high.

My waistline is under 36": still too high, but again, well below average stateside. The average waistline for US men is over 40"! For US women, it is nearly 39"!

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-n...merica?slide=4

OBoile

A good post on Calories In/Calories Out that sums up what I believe:
https://www.precisionnutrition.com/c...n-calories-out

I saw this a few days ago on Facebook and thought of this thread right away.

hubcyclist

fact: multiple meta-analyses have found intermittent fasting is no more effective than regular old calorie restriction. also, too much of the supposed benefits of IF are based on unproven theory

there are so many unhealthy viewpoints regarding food, on both sides. I lost 75lbs through cycling and moderation about 5 years ago, I eat relatively healthy, sometimes eat not so great food that I enjoy, but I ride so much I need the calories and especially the carbs (oh, and I'm probably faster than most folks here, so I'm not out there just tooling around). I think a lot of people who ride eat more because they *think* they're working off a lot of calories; having ridden with a power meter for a few years, and having a good idea of the work I do, I know a lot of people aren't burning off near as many calories as I do, so I think the key is getting people to balance exercising with a bit more purpose (just because you aren't racing doesn't mean you can't train to get faster and burn more calories naturally) and also understanding that for most cycling activity we have more than enough fuel in our bodies to not have to eat a ton of calories a day.

Like it or not, food has been an essential part of the human experience, so many cultural traditions are centered around the act of coming together at the table, let's not lose sight of that.

livedarklions

The phobic assertion is because you keep making crazy accusations and insults at people because they won't adopt your extreme food-avoidance plan.

Nothing you've posted here remotely suggests to anyone that you're "healthy".

OBoile

Come on! No it isn't.

https://behavioralscientist.org/no-s...nt-new-heroin/
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...body-and-brain

What a ridiculous thing to say.

Metieval

. You've already proven that you will throw personal insults (and not just at me but many other BF members also), so I am not going to post my blood work/stats here.

radroad

So many arguments here. Must be a lot of triggered fat people. jk. Maybe.


Just do what common sense dictates:


1. organic is better than non-organic. Anyone who thinks fruits and vegetables sprayed with pesticides improve your health is an idiot. Anyone who thinks animals pumped with antibiotics and growth hormones is good for you is an idiot.


2. non processed foods are better than processed foods.


3. any artificial ingredients or genetic modification is BAD for you.


4. excess calorie consumption is bad for you.


And yes, there are gross differences in the quality of organics. Produce from local small farmers is almost always superior to organics from big box retailers. Yes, some organic produce from big box retailers is better than other organic produce from BBR's.


5. Weight bearing exercise is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL. In just a couple of weeks, my posture is significantly improved, I am stronger, more alert, etc., as a result of weight training. Cardio alone is INSUFFICIENT for best health.



Also, no, just because you had a single glass of wine and didn't keel over dead immediately doesn't make alcohol healthy for you. Alcohol is a neurotoxin, period. Although SOME individuals can drink without apparent ill effects, in the aggregate, it is definitely bad for you. A lot of people will get suckered into drinking by fake medical studies, but that's their problem if they want to be duped and ignore their own intuition and any common sense they may have once possessed.


Same with tobacco. Nicotine won't kill EVERY SINGLE PERSON immediately; but on the aggregate, many more people who smoke will suffer from disease compared to people who don't.


Caffeine is bad for you. Refined sugar is bad for you. Alcohol is bad for you. Nicotine is bad for you. Excess calories are bad for you. Focusing on aerobic activity without weight resistance training is far from ideal.


Just use common sense.

livedarklions

Feel free, I'm pretty sure mine are better.

The tip-off your health is bad is how obsessive you are about telling people how bad theirs is. Your posting history likewise indicates that, but I'll leave that to other people to find.

OBoile

Organic food also uses pesticides, they just have to be certain ones (and that choice isn't made based on toxicity). There's also not much evidence that eating organic produces any significant health benefits.
I don't think "animals pumped with antibiotics and growth hormones" are good for me, but I've yet to see any compelling evidence that this negatively impacts a person's health (fwiw using growth hormones isn't legal in my country).
Given that there is no clear definition of "processed" I'm not sure we can say that. Also, many berries (and many other plants and animals) are highly toxic, yet would be considered non-processed if I picked them right off the bush. IMO, this is too general a statement to make.
There's no evidence of GMO foods being worse for you than non-GMO foods. Also, saying *any* artificial ingredients are bad is again too general of a statement to make IMO.
I suppose this is true, otherwise the given level of consumption wouldn't be considered "excess".
I'm not sure this is true at all.
Weight bearing exercise, and in particular strength training, is an important component of overall health. I agree.

This is true. But the dosage makes the poison.
Nicotine is what keeps you addicted, it's not generally what kills you (although I'm sure it is "bad" for you).
The dosage makes the poison. I'm not aware of any evidence that says moderate amounts are bad.
Again, the dosage makes the poison. The problem isn't sugar (which is just glucose and fructose, both of which are exactly the same as the glucose and fructose that exists in healthy natural "unprocessed" foods). It's that people eat too much of it.
Common sense may not be as common as it seems. Don't just fall for buzzwords and whatever the latest hype is.

bruce19

Is sugar addictive? One take...https://www.quora.com/Whats-more-add...gar-or-alcohol

The 5 most addictive substances...https://www.sciencealert.com/the-5-m...-to-your-brain

Just thought this was interesting.