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Geoffrey Butler... How would you build it...

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Geoffrey Butler... How would you build it...

Old 09-06-19, 06:21 PM
  #51  
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Glad it's not in my queue 'cause I'd want to put a bunch of stuff on it I couldn't afford. Really nice looking frameset!

Either full Campy NR, or Dura-Ace 7400.

Or, ya know, whatever greases your gears.
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Old 09-07-19, 01:41 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Bad Lag View Post
John, could you re-post the text. Your post above had good info in it. I can't imagine what else you posted.


If GB did not make the frame, I wonder who did? Is there any way to know?

Firstly thank you.


I refer you to my post #44 on this thread, Geoffrey Butler Cycles did not build frames, they were always bought in from a number of sources: in the 1960s thru to the mid 1980s there were three principle sources: one, as mentioned in my post #44 was Cliff Shrubb, Cliff was a lone builder, he did not employ anyone else to build frames - his output was limited but he is highly regarded (I have a Geoffrey Butler frameset built by him).

The second of the two Hall of Famers referred in my post #44 was Roberts: Charles Roberts, the founder of Roberts cycles was a friend of the manager of GBC and Roberts did build frames for Geoffrey Butler although they would have been the high end ones, and again limited in number (I have a Roberts built Geoffrey Butler). Charles Roberts had two framebuilders, one was his younger son Geoff (a friend of mine) and a builder recruited from Holdsworth called Derek Bailey.

The third supplier - a factory - was Holdsworth. Holdsworth built trade frames as well as their own branded frames.

The Hall of Famers framesets are relatively easily identified*, but owners of GB branded framesets in the USA should not get too carried away with the idea that they have one built by either of the two Hall of Famers. Later Geoffrey Butler framesets were often supplied by the Falcon Cycles works in Brigg - they built Nigel Dean frames and supplied these to the trade.

*identified by the build quality and certain signature features and the number stamp style. Charles Roberts also built frames and his carry a very distinctive mark - I have a Roberts frameset built by him.



The red frameset is a Roberts built Geoffrey Butler (built by Geoff Roberts or Derek Bailey), and would have been what was referred to in the old days as a winter training frame. The white frameset was built by Cliff Shrubb - the drive side dropout has threaded holes for a Portacatena.

Both are 531db throughout.

I trust this clarifies a few things, and you may like to take a look at this link - https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...orial-day.html

John.

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Old 09-07-19, 06:48 AM
  #53  
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So, IYHO, Who did build my frame. It looks a bit finer than either of the 2 you show, with finely filed longer point lugs and that shot in seat stay cluster.
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Old 09-07-19, 07:20 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by bwilli88 View Post
So, IYHO, Who did build my frame. It looks a bit finer than either of the 2 you show, with finely filed longer point lugs and that shot in seat stay cluster.
The long point lugs and shot in stays aren't the biggest clue: I have already given you a huge clue - your frame was built by Roberts.

John.
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Old 09-07-19, 08:04 AM
  #55  
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Thank you. I appreciate a first hand report.
Someday I would love to bring it to the isles and ride from my grandfathers home town near Harlech, Wales and tour a bit around England.
A side trip to Croydon would be a great addition.

So from your information it is a Geoffrey Butler branded frame built by Charles Roberts bike building business possibly built by Derek Bailey who worked there.
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Old 09-07-19, 09:53 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by bwilli88 View Post
Thank you. I appreciate a first hand report.
Someday I would love to bring it to the isles and ride from my grandfathers home town near Harlech, Wales and tour a bit around England.
A side trip to Croydon would be a great addition.

So from your information it is a Geoffrey Butler branded frame built by Charles Roberts bike building business possibly built by Derek Bailey who worked there.
Yes, it is a Roberts built Geoffrey Butler* and built by either Geoff Roberts (Charles' youngest son - my friend) or Derek Bailey. There's a remote chance it may have been built by Charles (Charlie) Roberts but I would have to examine a certain part of the frame to confirm or otherwise.

Come to England next summer for the Charles Benjamin Roberts Centenary Ride in pretty Boreham Street, East Sussex where his son Geoff still builds the finest frames.

John.

*was it branded a GB ?
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Old 09-07-19, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by hobbs1951 View Post

*was it branded a GB ?
I got it as a bare painted frame from randyjawa whose son picked it up from some guy who said it was a Geoffrey Butler.

That is all I knew until I searched the threads Randy posted about this bike over the years and your first hand experience with both Butler's shop and Robert's shop.
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Old 09-08-19, 09:03 AM
  #58  
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So back to the original question, any other great ideas in how to build this frame set? I have a real nice Stronglight roller bearing headset...

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Old 09-09-19, 07:15 AM
  #59  
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And then I found this on Ebay

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Old 09-09-19, 10:19 AM
  #60  
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I like where you're headed with this.
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Old 09-09-19, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by bwilli88 View Post
I just went to the above mentioned thread and Randy had posted an image of the nds drop out with the serial number, 70227
That's actually 70277.
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Old 09-09-19, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
That's actually 70277.
Think we saw that !

John.
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Old 09-09-19, 10:46 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by bwilli88 View Post
And then I found this on Ebay

Your bicycle but it's a BIG NO from me - I've called the taste police !

John.
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Old 09-09-19, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by bwilli88 View Post
And then I found this on Ebay

a +1 vote from me
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Old 09-09-19, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by bwilli88 View Post
So back to the original question, any other great ideas in how to build this frame set? I have a real nice Stronglight roller bearing headset...
I suggest you decide on wheels first. If this is an older frame it was likely designed to run 27" wheels and probably has narrower forks designed for a 5 or 6 speed freewheel. If you put 700 wheels in there you will be limited to using longer reach brake calipers. Having built out a couple of 60s British frames, I tend to go period-specific because there is a greater chance the parts will fit the frame and work together. I also think there is a logical order to sourcing parts - e.g. your choice of wheels will inform your choice of brake calipers; the wheels and fork width will inform your choice of freewheel, etc.

I see others on here have given you some good history. There is also some on the Classic Lightweights web site and a suggested but expensive parts list.

Good luck.
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Old 09-09-19, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by oldukbkr View Post
I suggest you decide on wheels first. If this is an older frame it was likely designed to run 27" wheels...
This frame would have been built for 700s or sprints not 27s - I am an expert on Roberts built frames.

John.
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Old 09-09-19, 02:42 PM
  #67  
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Wouldn't hesitate to put that Ultegra group on it.
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Old 09-09-19, 05:20 PM
  #68  
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Wheels

Originally Posted by hobbs1951 View Post
This frame would have been built for 700s or sprints not 27s - I am an expert on Roberts built frames.

John.
I have the exact frame and I am the second owner, it is the same color and has the original "Geoffrey Butler" decals still on it. I still own this bike. As I remember it came with 27" wheels and I laced Mavic 700c rims to a set of Phil Wood hubs and had to use a set of Dura Ace long arm side pulls to get the pads low enough for the rims. Other wise I would have had to use a drop bolt mount.(Phill Wood and Dura Ace was fairly new back then) I put a Jubilee derailleur set on it, best move ever. Then I traded them for a Campy set of derailleurs, worst move.
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Old 09-09-19, 05:26 PM
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Mine had TA cranks originally.
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Old 09-09-19, 05:28 PM
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I think you will need to go 27" wheels or 700's with long arm brakes
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