Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Commuting
Reload this Page >

Gravel/Road vs. touring rims with 36h

Notices
Commuting Bicycle commuting is easier than you think, before you know it, you'll be hooked. Learn the tips, hints, equipment, safety requirements for safely riding your bike to work.

Gravel/Road vs. touring rims with 36h

Old 10-11-19, 12:55 PM
  #1  
antdd
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Montreal
Posts: 21

Bikes: commuter: Patria Roadster / cargo: Nihola Family

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Gravel/Road vs. touring rims with 36h

I am building/planning currently my "all weather fast super commuter" based on a Soma Wolverine (different thread here, I'll update that soon), but I have a more general question regarding rims. I am planning to use Panaracer Gravelking (slick version) in 700c x 38 and in winter spike tyres in the same range (32-38mm). The frame itself has clearance up to 45mm with fenders and 50mm without. Since ideally I would love to have the options to run tyres from 28/30 mm (still have a 30mm spike tyre) to the maximum range, with the sweet spot around 38mm, I guess I am looking for rims with an internal with of 19-21 mm, plus/minus a bit (correct my please if I'm wrong). I prefer a bit wider though.

Hubs:
I was planning to buy an Alfine 8 Di2 for the rear and a DT Swiss 350 in the front, but now got a crazy good deal for an Alfine 11 Di2 (less then the Alfine 8 gets currently sold in Europe, and half the price my LBS quoted for an Alfine 8 Di2). The "problem": Instead of the 32 hole black version I planned it is now 36 holes silver. The color I don't mind, I prefer silver actually, I just changed the front to a Hope RS4 (with the advantage to be able to change to a different axle in case I ever need this).

But now, 36h rims seem to be not that broadly available anymore beside heavy loaded touring. I am 75-80 kg and usually carry less then 10 kg with me, so 32/32 would have been good enough, but now it will be 32/36 spokes. Since I am running disk brakes, I want either a disk brake rim, or if it is a rim brake one it should be either a completely silver rim or with the brake track painted black. Ideally I go with Presta valves. The Alfine isn't lightweight, but I don't need the heaviest rim neither. Tubeless isn't something I am planning right now. Aluminum rims. My LBS said they most likely would use Sapim Race spokes for the build.

Originally I had settled on the H+Son Hydra (19mm inner diameter), but these go only until 32h. From H+Son, the Archetype and TB14 would have enough spokes, but have only an inner width of 17.5mm, which might be ok, but I think a bit on the low end for what I want.

So now my search for 36h rims started... I found only a few road/gravel rims which are for 36 spokes and the width I am looking for, and some rims marked as "trekking/touring/e-bike". If comparing rims which seem in the same price range, I am wondering what are the differences? Obviously wider means often a bit more weight, but the lighter touring rims are not that far from the gravel ones, 50-100 g more, all are somewhere in between 450-550g. Often the touring models have a higher max. load of 130 kg and more, which I will likely not need. What else is different? Are the more race oriented stiffer or anything else? Something I would actually feel? Durability?

Here a few I found:
  • Astral Leviathan: inner width 19.5mm, 515g, touring/tandem rim with 32-40 holes, on the expensive side of what I would like to spend
  • Pacenti Brevet: 19mm, 450g, like them quite much and seems to be for light/fast touring? Will check if my LBS can get them to a better rate then if I order from the US...
  • DT Swiss 545D: 21mm inner with, 585g and quite cheap, "ebike rim"
  • DT Swiss HX491: 25mm inner width so probably a bit too much for me? 550g, price not too far from the Pacenti Brevet when ordered from Europe, "eMTB rim"
  • Velocity Dyad: inner width 18.6mm, 525g
  • Velocity Aileron: 20mm inner width and 465g, a bit on the expensive side for me
  • Mavic XM119 Disc / A319: both 19mm inside and around 550g / 595g, "trail rim" / "touring rim"
  • H+Son Archetype or TB14: with 17.5 mm inner width a bit slim for what I look for, what do you think?
  • Stan's No Tubes Arch Mk3: with 26 inner width too wide? 453g and similar prices as the H+Sons, MTB 29'' rim.

Or running the rear wheel with the Archetype 36h and the front the Hydra 32h? Lacing a 36h hub to a 32h rim seems to be in theory possible, but complicated and not the most straightforward.

Anything I am missing, suggestions, ideas? I think my favourite out of these is currently the Brevet, but maybe it's just the look? Would be one of the touring models be better, or the more racy ones?
antdd is offline  
Old 10-11-19, 05:27 PM
  #2  
ThermionicScott 
7-speed cultist
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 19,568

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2538 Post(s)
Liked 438 Times in 315 Posts
Itís not uncommon for road wheelsets to have 4 or 8 more spokes in back. Ditto for all those old English 3-speeds. The rear wheel usually sees a bit more weight, and front hubs generally have wider flange spacing so front wheels can be strong with fewer spokes. But since youíre not carrying a big load, you donít need a beefy wheel either. My vote would be for the Pacenti, but most of the rims on your list would be fine. Donít fret about 1mm here or there on rim width.

BTW, you may not want to run tubeless, but Iíve had good experiences using tubeless-compatible rims with tubes. The snug fit at the bead seat helps tires to mount up straight without a lot of hand manipulation, and the deep well in the center provides the slack needed when mounting or dismounting.
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 10-12-19, 04:40 AM
  #3  
rmsmith
Newbie
 
rmsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The Velocity Cliffhanger rims are wide enough for your 700c x 38 tires, but they are not light weight.
rmsmith is offline  
Old 10-13-19, 08:43 PM
  #4  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,076
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 560 Post(s)
Liked 268 Times in 155 Posts
Go with Ailerons, and run 'em tubeless. They're sturdy, and not as heavy as some of your other options - so even with four extra spokes in back, they'll build up to be light enough. And strong as hell.
Koyote is offline  
Old 10-15-19, 03:43 AM
  #5  
JaccoW
Tinkerer
 
JaccoW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Posts: 1,121

Bikes: Batavus Randonneur GL, Gazelle Orange Excellent, Gazelle Super Licht, Gazelle Grand Tourist

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 344 Post(s)
Liked 118 Times in 90 Posts
I have 37-622 Schwalbe's on an H+Son Archetype. They seem to do alright.

I do recall running 22mm rim tape in them so I'm not sure they really are that narrow.
JaccoW is offline  
Old 10-15-19, 09:59 AM
  #6  
antdd
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Montreal
Posts: 21

Bikes: commuter: Patria Roadster / cargo: Nihola Family

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanks everyone!

@JaccoW: Yeah, I don't like when they post only the outer width which is much less important then the inner width. https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/product...-son-archetype posts 17.5mm for them, Alloy Rim Roundup - Fairwheel Bikes Blog says 17mm, a forum post I find says measured 17.2mm. So it should be in that range...

@ThermionicScott: Yes, I'm aware 32/36 is the classic setup, unfortunally the 36h choices these days are not that many anymore. Which of the above do you think would not work, what is the max. inner width I should look at when I still want to have 30mm tyres as an option?
antdd is offline  
Old 10-15-19, 10:27 AM
  #7  
JaccoW
Tinkerer
 
JaccoW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Posts: 1,121

Bikes: Batavus Randonneur GL, Gazelle Orange Excellent, Gazelle Super Licht, Gazelle Grand Tourist

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 344 Post(s)
Liked 118 Times in 90 Posts
Originally Posted by antdd View Post
Thanks everyone!

@JaccoW: Yeah, I don't like when they post only the outer width which is much less important then the inner width. https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/product...-son-archetype posts 17.5mm for them, Alloy Rim Roundup - Fairwheel Bikes Blog says 17mm, a forum post I find says measured 17.2mm. So it should be in that range...
Sounds plausible, they do say that tyres between 23-40mm should work on them. I also have the TB14's on a randonneur bike with 35-622 tyres which really measure as 35mm wide when mounted.


TB14


Archetype
JaccoW is offline  
Old 10-15-19, 07:40 PM
  #8  
ThermionicScott 
7-speed cultist
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 19,568

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2538 Post(s)
Liked 438 Times in 315 Posts
Originally Posted by antdd View Post
@ThermionicScott: Yes, I'm aware 32/36 is the classic setup, unfortunally the 36h choices these days are not that many anymore. Which of the above do you think would not work, what is the max. inner width I should look at when I still want to have 30mm tyres as an option?
An old audio electronics joke goes "Transistors have specs, tubes have guidelines." I feel like the same could be said of tire/rim pairings. Any 700C tire that you can successfully mount onto a given 700C rim "works" in a sense, but whether you like the result depends on your judgment.

For a range of tires from 30-38mm, you can't go wrong with your initial thought of rims with a 19-21mm inner width.

The width of the Stan's rim doesn't concern me as much as the short "G-height" and vestigial bead hooks. I'd worry that tires from the skinnier end of your range, inflated to pressures appropriate to that size, could blow off. The DT HX491 and Stan's Arch seem to be intended for tires at least 2" wide.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 10-17-19, 12:03 PM
  #9  
RubeRad
Keepin it Wheel
 
RubeRad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 8,791

Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Moto Fantom29 ProSL hardtail

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked 232 Times in 179 Posts
I have 32H Velocity Dyads on my CrossCheck commuter, and I've run up to 700x50 tires on them, no worries.
RubeRad is offline  
Old 10-19-19, 05:57 PM
  #10  
Archwhorides 
Senior Member
 
Archwhorides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Boston
Posts: 828

Bikes: Death machines all

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 260 Post(s)
Liked 30 Times in 24 Posts
Are there tubeless studded tires? I never thought about it. 🤔
Archwhorides is offline  
Old 10-19-19, 06:23 PM
  #11  
ThermionicScott 
7-speed cultist
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 19,568

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2538 Post(s)
Liked 438 Times in 315 Posts
Originally Posted by Archwhorides View Post
Are there tubeless studded tires? I never thought about it. 🤔
They would probably need to be a "dry tubeless" type since sealant doesn't work at cold temperatures.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 10-21-19, 10:38 PM
  #12  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 9,464

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '87 Schwinn Prelude, Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo, '18 Diamondback Syncr

Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3590 Post(s)
Liked 528 Times in 367 Posts
So 36h, not tubeless necessary, and able to handle a 38mm tire.

The Archetype would be just fine. It's a great combo of weight and strength. Not shallow and not too deep. A 17.5mm internal is plenty wide for 38mm tires. I used Archetype rims for a 41mm gravel tire for years- easy to mount and nothing ever happened which is all you can want in a rim/tire combo.
0 downside to Archetype rims with a 38mm tire.

I wouldnt do Archetype rear with Hydra front only because the large white lettering being different would annoy me.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 10-22-19, 10:28 AM
  #13  
antdd
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Montreal
Posts: 21

Bikes: commuter: Patria Roadster / cargo: Nihola Family

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
...

The Archetype would be just fine. It's a great combo of weight and strength. Not shallow and not too deep. A 17.5mm internal is plenty wide for 38mm tires. I used Archetype rims for a 41mm gravel tire for years- easy to mount and nothing ever happened which is all you can want in a rim/tire combo.
...
Thanks for this insight. Since the frame (Soma Wolverine) has clearance up to 45mm with fenders (my actual fenders, the Honjo H50 go officially up to 42mm, but 1-2mm more is probably fine as well) and without fenders up to 50mm, I would like to have the option for that as well. When looking what Mavic says about rim/tyre combinations (http://engineerstalk.mavic.com/wp-co...tableau1-1.jpg), the 17.5mm of the Archetype should still work, even though it's on the max. recommended end when I would actually use 50mm tyres. So yes, I guess it should work, even though having a bit more buffer sounds better.
But I think in general I got some good comments and options, I will check with my LBS what they can get for me and what they think...
Thanks!
antdd is offline  
Old 10-22-19, 01:11 PM
  #14  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 9,464

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '87 Schwinn Prelude, Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo, '18 Diamondback Syncr

Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3590 Post(s)
Liked 528 Times in 367 Posts
Originally Posted by antdd View Post
When looking what Mavic says about rim/tyre combinations (http://engineerstalk.mavic.com/wp-co...tableau1-1.jpg), the 17.5mm of the Archetype should still work, even though it's on the max. recommended end when I would actually use 50mm tyres.
I am nothing close the as informed as an engineer at Mavic and readily accept that they know more than me. With that said, I find their wheel systems and proprietary engineering to be quite absurd for my use and the use of most cyclists. Just so many changes off of something that neednt be that complicated or proprietary. They clearly know their stuff- THE RIGHT TYRE WIDTH ON THE RIGHT RIM WIDTH - Engineerstalk : Engineerstalk. I assume that is where your pic comes from.
Anyways, in real use I have ridden 40mm and 43mm tires on Archetype rims without noticing a thing about the combo. Neither tire felt squishy or unstable, even though the shape violates Mavic's ideals. Perhaps I dont ride hard enough/turn hard enough? No idea.

I should say I have little experience with rims- Besides OEM generic rims, I have used probably 5 different brand/model/shapes and quickly targeted what I like and want. Ive built 3 sets of wheels and the Archetype rims were the most round(both laterall and vertically) out of the box which made for easier building. Some Mavic Open Pro(or one of the Open models) were like wet noodles, but they were admittedly entry level so no reason to compare.

Good luck with the build- pics are required!
mstateglfr is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.