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45 North or Dogwood Design Pogies?

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45 North or Dogwood Design Pogies?

Old 10-20-14, 04:02 PM
  #1  
corrado33
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45 North or Dogwood Design Pogies?

UPDATE! See below!


Hi All,
I'm sure things like this have been asked before, but since winter is coming up I figured I'd ask again. I'm going to buy pogies this year. Why? Well, I think I have some sort of circulation problem in my hands, and they FREEZE in the winter. Even in fall when my friends are riding in skimpy cotton gloves my hands are painfully cold (when I'm wearing large winter gloves.) I'm not being a wimp either. By the time I get home or to work, I am literally writhing in pain because of my hands.

I even tried chemical hand warmers. Last winter when it got to -20 F ish, I put TWO handwarmers in each of my gloves. One on top of my hands and one below. It didn't help. My hands were very hot locally, where the warmers were touching, but my fingers were still painfully cold. I even had to stop a few times to pull my fingers into my gloves to warm them up.

It was not fun.

The problem is that I'm essentially using these for commuting. I don't have enough time for my body to warm up enough to warm my hands up. In the winter it takes me about 20 minutes to get to work. Basically what I want to do is warm the pogies up in the morning with a hairdryer then set off. I think a well insulated pogie will stay warm enough to keep me comfortable the entire way to work (or back.)

So, my question is this. Should I go with the Dogwood designs winter pogies (not the plus version.)
Dogwood Designs Winter Pogies offered by Fatbikes.com

Or the 45 North new design.
45North Cobrafist Pogie Handlebar Mitten offered by Fatbikes.com

I like that the dogwoods are made in alaska and have been around for a while. They know their stuff. But, I REALLY like the sturdy attachment system of the 45 North pogies. They have a bar end that you literally bolt the pogies to. From what I know, the dogwood designs only attach to the end of your bars via some elastic strapping.

And the 45 north pogies are rated for -40 were as the dogwood designs are rated for -15F. I realize that people can't have experience with the 45 north pogies, as this is the first year they've been out, but I'd like your opinions nonetheless.

I don't want to end up buying an inferior product that claimed it was more "technically advanced." (45 north) Sometimes things are hyped too much and never end up working that well. They're both ~$120.

Both are discussed on this page as well.
The History of Pogies and What To Buy - Bikepackers Magazine

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Old 10-20-14, 05:34 PM
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Both are very nice but I personally would lean towards the Dogwood simply because they are one of the originals. They have also been used in countless Iditarod's so they have got to be decent because you do not start a race like that without tried and true gear.
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Old 10-21-14, 12:10 AM
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I'm sure these aren't as good as the ones you mentioned, but they are surely good enough, especially for a 20 minute ride, and just a wee bit cheaper (under $20 shipped). I used a smaller, cheaper ($10) pair last winter, and they did the trick. I bought a pair similar to these in the spring, haven't tried them out yet, but they're well made, waterproof (I ran them under the tap for 10 seconds and the surface was barely damp) and I think they're going to be plenty warm.
Shezthed tyrannosaurs motorcycle thermal gloves electric bicycle gloves winter thermal set automobile race cover-inGloves from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
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Old 10-21-14, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mox
I'm sure these aren't as good as the ones you mentioned, but they are surely good enough, especially for a 20 minute ride, and just a wee bit cheaper (under $20 shipped). I used a smaller, cheaper ($10) pair last winter, and they did the trick. I bought a pair similar to these in the spring, haven't tried them out yet, but they're well made, waterproof (I ran them under the tap for 10 seconds and the surface was barely damp) and I think they're going to be plenty warm.
Shezthed tyrannosaurs motorcycle thermal gloves electric bicycle gloves winter thermal set automobile race cover-inGloves from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
Thanks for the suggestion mox. However, I'm not willing to risk buying a set that aren't warm enough. As I mentioned above, I probably have some sort of circulation problems in my fingers, and my fingers get exceptionally cold even on relatively warm fall days. I've learned over the years that it's easier to just buy a nice product once than to buy a cheap product multiple times. Thank you for the suggestion however.
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Old 10-21-14, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by corrado33
Thanks for the suggestion mox. However, I'm not willing to risk buying a set that aren't warm enough. As I mentioned above, I probably have some sort of circulation problems in my fingers, and my fingers get exceptionally cold even on relatively warm fall days. I've learned over the years that it's easier to just buy a nice product once than to buy a cheap product multiple times. Thank you for the suggestion however.
You're welcome. I hope whatever ones you end up getting work out for you. When your fingers get too cold the pain is intense.
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Old 10-21-14, 12:17 PM
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If I were you I would call the guys at fatbikes and ask them which is warmer. They will probably have an opinion.

Not sure where you live, but I ride year-round in Chicago with Moose Mitts for much longer than 20 minutes at a time. The moose mitts are comfortable from around 30 to well below zero depending on what gloves or mittens I use. I have never considered getting heavier weight pogies.
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Old 10-21-14, 01:43 PM
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Thanks for the advice kingston. I sent fatbikes a quick e-mail, we'll see if they get back to me in the next day or so.

I debated buying Moose Mitts, but I decided they didn't have enough insulation. I'd rather be forced to wear thin gloves with thick pogies than the other way around. Again, my hands are always unnaturally cold, so I tend to err on the side of using a much more insulated product as compared to other people.

Also, it's not the long rides that are a problem. I'll warm up on anything over 20 minutes, then my hands will be fine. It's the short commutes where my hands die.

I'm from western Montana. Not sure if it's colder here or there!
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Old 10-21-14, 09:43 PM
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I explained a few times here how to double the warmth of most mitts, gloves with a little trick that cost less than 5 box and add barely extra bulk but every time i tried to explain people just gave up so i gave up myself
I rode at -36C with my mitts (-71F with windchill) and was just fine now with the improved version i believe i can ride up to -100F with windchill but i haven't reached this temperature for obvious reasons so i don't know for sure.

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Old 10-21-14, 10:45 PM
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I don't know much about bike pogies. I've only used the marine version for sea kayaking (which is where I think the idea came from), but I do know a little about cold weather and cold weather physiology.

It sounds to me like you may suffer from Raynaud's syndrome. Here is the link to NIH's site on the subject What Is Raynaud's? - NHLBI, NIH , but you probably won't find it that helpful, and I don't think it is well written or researched as I have seen it a lot (especially in women) playing outdoors.

My suggestion to you is to remain well-hydrated (it makes a big difference), wear a loose wicking glove inside your pogies (or mittens if you end up going that route), and to consciously keep your fingers moving to encourage circulation through the capillary beds. Don't grip your handlebars too hard (some folks do). Just hold onto them loosely and keep drumming your fingers. On staying hydrated, cold weather shuts down our thirst mechanism, so drink even when you aren't thirsty -- I find warm tea helps stay hydrated.

At different times in my life I've spent a lot of time skiing, dogsledding, biking, kayaking, and climbing in some pretty cold weather. I've also spent some time guiding ski mountaineering trips. Sometimes the little silly sounding things help just as much or more than dumping more more money into the problem, although I don't want to discourage you from buying pogies. They sound like a wise investment in your case.
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Old 10-22-14, 08:07 AM
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Erig: Link? Anything to make my hands warmer is appreciated.

Jwarner: Thanks for the info. I knew that the name and idea for pogies came from a kayaker (hence why it's named after a bait fish). Since they were so popular they expanded to nearly every cold weather sport where you have to hold something.

Anyway, I figured I probably have Raynauds, but since I've never been diagnosed I don't say I do. (Internet diagnosticians are often wrong ) I've been running in the cold for many years now, so I always stay hydrated (I love drinking water). The funny thing is, my hands don't often get cold when I'm running, and I barely ever have to wear gloves thicker than late fall gloves. (About half as thick as normal winter gloves.) I guess it's a combination of the extra effort required to run and the lack of a windchill.

I ended up ordering the Dogwood Design Pogies. An e-mail came back from fatbikes saying one thing. "Dogwood is the best." I'm not joking, that was the entirety of the e-mail.

I'll reply to this thread when I get my pogies, and how warm they keep my hands during the winter.

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Old 11-02-14, 11:29 PM
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Got the Dogwood Designs the other day. They're.... huge. Massive even. (With my hand touching the front, they come up past my elbow.) They're much bigger than their pictures portray them as being.) They also have a lot less insulation than I was expecting. (Probably about an inch of down all of the way around). From the pictures I was expecting the thing to be mostly insulation, where it's actually mostly free space. We'll see how they work when it gets cold(er) out.
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Old 11-03-14, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by corrado33
Got the Dogwood Designs the other day...
Let us know how they work out. I'm curious to know what temperature range is comfortable. I can't use my moose mitts above freezing because they are too warm.
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Old 11-03-14, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by kingston
Let us know how they work out. I'm curious to know what temperature range is comfortable. I can't use my moose mitts above freezing because they are too warm.
Will do. Remember though, my hand are always freezing, so I may not be a good comparison for you.
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Old 11-10-14, 09:11 AM
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UPDATE HERE!

Well all, winter finally decided to show up to western montana last night. It went from 60-65F and windy yesterday to 10F with 4 inches of snow this morning. I was thoroughly unprepared. My Dogwood design pogies were sitting on my bedroom floor, not on the bike. My winter bike had no lights installed on it or anything!

So I grabbed the pogies and hurried downstairs, wanting to get out the door quickly. Didn't want to be late for work and even more importantly, wanted to test my new pogies (and studded tires, but that's another thread.) The pogies were very easy to install, they simply slipped over the bar end and cinched shut. They BARELY fit over my normal brake levers, but that's how it's supposed to be right? I found that if you want them to be angled up, don't cinch down the inside until they're at the angle you want. Then install the elastic loop on the inside of the pogie. After I had the rest of the bike sorted out (lights etc.) I set off. I wore a pair of medium weight gloves. (LINK) I can usually wear these gloves down to right below freezing and be OK. Right to where the tips of my fingers get cold, but everything else is ok. Not warm, but not painful either. I wasn't about to wear lightweight gloves for fear of my hands being cold.

Well, I have to tell you. For the first time of me riding to work in the winter in two years, my hands were WARM! You know that nice feeling you get when you're next to a fire or hot object, that's what my hands felt! I have never before felt that with any sort of gloves on in the winter. I have always felt that my gloves were fighting a battle with the cold.... and losing. In fact, if I had ridden any longer (my commute is a paltry 2-3 miles,) my hands may have even been HOT!. I was surprised since when I first received the pogies, my first thought was "Wow, these are thin." (They're about an inch thick all around, but considering how big they are, they felt thin.) I had expected 2-3 inches of insulation. However, if tomorrow is just as cold, I'm going to wear thinner gloves. (Something I'd call a light-midweight.) A thick liner essentially.

The pogies were easy to use as well. However, I'm not quite sure how you're supposed to cinch the tops of both of them shut. A chicken and egg type of problem. But, with that said, with my left pogie cinched around my wrist/forearm, I could easily pull my arm out and signal or mess with my light. The pogie stayed in place and let me put my hand easily. The pogies don't feel nearly as big when they're installed on the bike. However, they do leave precious little space on my handlebars for lights!. I do have small bars though. (Old mountain bike, not by choice.)

Over all, I LOVE THEM. I'll keep updating this thread with the cold temperatures that I ride through. These are one of my favorite purchases for my bike so far.

Last edited by corrado33; 11-10-14 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 11-13-14, 09:41 AM
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Rode in this morning in -25C weather wearing the same gloves I mentioned above. Hands were OK. Toward the end of the ride I started feeling a bit of cold on the very tips of my fingers, but by that time my body was warming up so my hands weren't far behind. The warmness of my hands REALLY depends on the circumstances that I'm using the pogies in. For example. Overnight my bike is in my (unheated attached) garage. The temp is probably 45-55 in the garage. During the day, my bike and pogies stay outside in the cold. I am MUCH more comfortable riding into work in the morning than I am riding home. Even if I blow out the pogies to remove some of the cold air, I'm still much warmer riding to work than I am riding home. I rode home last night and the temp was hovering around -20C, and my hands were cold enough that I had to pull my pinky into the middle of the glove. Not nearly as painful as my hands have been in the past when I just wore gloves without the pogies though. There were also other circumstances that led up to that however. I had walked about a mile through the cold before I got to my bike for one. It's all about how you prepare.

I've debated bringing the pogies into work with me, but I feel that the setup time required to put them on the bike (as small as it is) would negate any benefit from doing that.
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Old 11-13-14, 10:29 AM
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Your pogies seems to have a lot of empty space in them. Where there is lots of empty space there is air flowing which leads to convection heat loss which means cold.
Do you think wool felt liners could fit in your pogies? It is one possible solution


A cheaper solution would be to add aluminum foil inside your pogies or fill them with some cardboard.
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Old 11-13-14, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by erig007
Your pogies seems to have a lot of empty space in them. Where there is lots of empty space there is air flowing which leads to convection heat loss which means cold.
Do you think wool felt liners could fit in your pogies? It is one possible solution
I could probably fit wool liners in my pogies. There IS plenty of space. I do have the back of the pogies cinched shut around my forearm, so it's unlikely that too much heat is escaping.
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Old 11-13-14, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by corrado33
I could probably fit wool liners in my pogies. There IS plenty of space. I do have the back of the pogies cinched shut around my forearm, so it's unlikely that too much heat is escaping.
There is no need to have openings to feel the cold. Look at your windows, if those are modern enough you will notice that spacing between layers is (or should be) around 1 or 2cm for the same reason. When air starts moving insulation decrease.


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Old 11-13-14, 10:59 AM
  #19  
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Erig, Thanks for the info. I may just try to shove something in the fill up the space for the next few days to test it out!
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Old 11-15-14, 12:04 PM
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Rode with my Cobrafists this morning at 13 degrees or so for 2.5 hours. After the first half-hour I took my gloves off and did the final two hours bare handed.
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Old 11-15-14, 02:33 PM
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I expect The sea kayak hunting Eskimos made Pogies first .. to put on their paddles



you certainly find them on kayaks these days .. ever tried paddling a kayak in the bearing straights? even in summer?

or even the CDN inside passage.. water is rather cold year around..

does make hurricanes pretty unlikely up here, ...
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Old 11-24-14, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
I expect The sea kayak hunting Eskimos made Pogies first .. to put on their paddles



you certainly find them on kayaks these days .. ever tried paddling a kayak in the bearing straights? even in summer?

or even the CDN inside passage.. water is rather cold year around..

does make hurricanes pretty unlikely up here, ...
You're probably correct. The original "pogie" that was commercialized today was invented by a kayaker for his paddle. It then spread to every other cold weather sport out there, including dogsledding!
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Old 12-04-14, 04:13 PM
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Needed to give this a bump to share my experience with 45NRTH. I've been having an issue with my Cobrafists starting to come apart. Emailed 45N last week and saw the "we'll get back to you in 24 hours" pop up. Nothing. Emailed again yesterday. 36 hours later, still nothing. Pretty sorry customer (non)service. It seems the QBP "we're big enough that we don't need no stinking customer service" reputation has bled down to its subsidiaries.
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Old 12-04-14, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by revcp
Needed to give this a bump to share my experience with 45NRTH. I've been having an issue with my Cobrafists starting to come apart. Emailed 45N last week and saw the "we'll get back to you in 24 hours" pop up. Nothing. Emailed again yesterday. 36 hours later, still nothing. Pretty sorry customer (non)service. It seems the QBP "we're big enough that we don't need no stinking customer service" reputation has bled down to its subsidiaries.
That's unfortunate. My Dogwood Design Pogies are still holding up pretty well. Still look brand new even after a fall or two. Low speed falls on snow, but falls nonetheless.

I've actually had to take the pogies off of my bike. It's getting too warm here

The only thing that's annoying with the Dogwood Design Pogies is the attachment method to the ends of the bars. It just uses a simple elastic strap, but that strap takes up a cm or so of the end of the handlebar. Especially since my handlebar grips are tapered, so it pushes the elastic strap further inwards, meaning it crowds my hands because I like to hold the outside of the bars. But that's a very MINOR complaint.

Last edited by corrado33; 12-04-14 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 12-11-14, 04:39 PM
  #25  
Whiteout1962
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It's over 30 in Bloomington, Minnesota today and going to be -15 in Fairbanks. They know cold in Fairbanks and the guy who makes these in Fairbanks has been winter biking at below -50 for years. I have tried both on at LBS and I like the Dogwoods better and think they are more Iditerod trail ready. Go and try them both on at a LBS if you can.
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