Zen and the Art of Messing with Bikes :)
12-17-19, 03:32 PM
#26
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Ha! Quoting myself
.I got back to the book. It's worth the plod for the 'how to be a good mechanic' tips. Really is, no doubt about it.
Pirsig writes about simply staring at stuff you want to get fixed. I've written about that in this thread. Did I remember that from my having read the book 45 years ago? I have no idea, but it's an important part of getting stuff fixed.
"Just stare it out! Something will have to give!"
(me, there, paraphrasing)
And it always does!
Last edited by robalong; 12-17-19 at 04:18 PM. Reason: added content
12-17-19, 04:01 PM
#27
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I read the book during the summer, little by little at the pool when my daughter was around 8 or 9 years old.
The author had an alter-ego who he called Phaedrus (IIRC).
Phaedrus was super distracted with trying to obtain “quality” in his pursuits. He talked about “metaphysics” and a lot of classical philosophy was laced into it, some of which I understood.
He loved on his basic Honda motorcycle and went through much consternation when a friend spent much, much more money on a BMW motorcycle that had much more advanced engineering which amounted to very little in Pirsig’s world due to the owner’s mechanical ineptitude and unappreciative attitude.
My takeaway as a cyclist and a mechanic is that we possess all we need right now to last a long time. Bikes are super efficient, healthy and much less crude than any car, truck or motorcycle.
When I consider what can be done to reduce fossil fuel emissions - the answer for a lot of more people is not robotic self driving cars, it has more to do with taking that garage sale Schwinn, pumping up the tires & riding up to the grocery store to get what you need.
The author had an alter-ego who he called Phaedrus (IIRC).
Phaedrus was super distracted with trying to obtain “quality” in his pursuits. He talked about “metaphysics” and a lot of classical philosophy was laced into it, some of which I understood.
He loved on his basic Honda motorcycle and went through much consternation when a friend spent much, much more money on a BMW motorcycle that had much more advanced engineering which amounted to very little in Pirsig’s world due to the owner’s mechanical ineptitude and unappreciative attitude.
My takeaway as a cyclist and a mechanic is that we possess all we need right now to last a long time. Bikes are super efficient, healthy and much less crude than any car, truck or motorcycle.
When I consider what can be done to reduce fossil fuel emissions - the answer for a lot of more people is not robotic self driving cars, it has more to do with taking that garage sale Schwinn, pumping up the tires & riding up to the grocery store to get what you need.
12-17-19, 04:17 PM
#28
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Thread Starter
I read the book during the summer, little by little at the pool when my daughter was around 8 or 9 years old.
The author had an alter-ego who he called Phaedrus (IIRC).
Phaedrus was super distracted with trying to obtain “quality” in his pursuits. He talked about “metaphysics” and a lot of classical philosophy was laced into it, some of which I understood.
He loved on his basic Honda motorcycle and went through much consternation when a friend spent much, much more money on a BMW motorcycle that had much more advanced engineering which amounted to very little in Pirsig’s world due to the owner’s mechanical ineptitude and unappreciative attitude.
My takeaway as a cyclist and a mechanic is that we possess all we need right now to last a long time. Bikes are super efficient, healthy and much less crude than any car, truck or motorcycle.
When I consider what can be done to reduce fossil fuel emissions - the answer for a lot of more people is not robotic self driving cars, it has more to do with taking that garage sale Schwinn, pumping up the tires & riding up to the grocery store to get what you need.
The author had an alter-ego who he called Phaedrus (IIRC).
Phaedrus was super distracted with trying to obtain “quality” in his pursuits. He talked about “metaphysics” and a lot of classical philosophy was laced into it, some of which I understood.
He loved on his basic Honda motorcycle and went through much consternation when a friend spent much, much more money on a BMW motorcycle that had much more advanced engineering which amounted to very little in Pirsig’s world due to the owner’s mechanical ineptitude and unappreciative attitude.
My takeaway as a cyclist and a mechanic is that we possess all we need right now to last a long time. Bikes are super efficient, healthy and much less crude than any car, truck or motorcycle.
When I consider what can be done to reduce fossil fuel emissions - the answer for a lot of more people is not robotic self driving cars, it has more to do with taking that garage sale Schwinn, pumping up the tires & riding up to the grocery store to get what you need.
May your roads be all you wish them to be!
An odd book, for sure, but what is there that isn't odd? Odd is giving up on a stuck screw. Find a way! Be not yourself stuck!
He makes a lot of sense.
Merry Christmas!
12-17-19, 09:01 PM
#29
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I read the book during the summer, little by little at the pool when my daughter was around 8 or 9 years old.
The author had an alter-ego who he called Phaedrus (IIRC).
Phaedrus was super distracted with trying to obtain “quality” in his pursuits. He talked about “metaphysics” and a lot of classical philosophy was laced into it, some of which I understood.
He loved on his basic Honda motorcycle and went through much consternation when a friend spent much, much more money on a BMW motorcycle that had much more advanced engineering which amounted to very little in Pirsig’s world due to the owner’s mechanical ineptitude and unappreciative attitude.
My takeaway as a cyclist and a mechanic is that we possess all we need right now to last a long time. Bikes are super efficient, healthy and much less crude than any car, truck or motorcycle.
When I consider what can be done to reduce fossil fuel emissions - the answer for a lot of more people is not robotic self driving cars, it has more to do with taking that garage sale Schwinn, pumping up the tires & riding up to the grocery store to get what you need.
The author had an alter-ego who he called Phaedrus (IIRC).
Phaedrus was super distracted with trying to obtain “quality” in his pursuits. He talked about “metaphysics” and a lot of classical philosophy was laced into it, some of which I understood.
He loved on his basic Honda motorcycle and went through much consternation when a friend spent much, much more money on a BMW motorcycle that had much more advanced engineering which amounted to very little in Pirsig’s world due to the owner’s mechanical ineptitude and unappreciative attitude.
My takeaway as a cyclist and a mechanic is that we possess all we need right now to last a long time. Bikes are super efficient, healthy and much less crude than any car, truck or motorcycle.
When I consider what can be done to reduce fossil fuel emissions - the answer for a lot of more people is not robotic self driving cars, it has more to do with taking that garage sale Schwinn, pumping up the tires & riding up to the grocery store to get what you need.
The main point of self-driving cars isn't to reduce global emissions, it's to take the so-called error-prone human driver out of the driving task, on the theory that a computer-based driving program will be better. If the computer-based driving program and its sensors can accurately recognize cycles, what they are doing, the exact meaning of the detected scenario, and correctly identify everything else that is in the picture and could affect the analysis, then the mechanized driver could prevent cars from threatening and injuring cyclists (and pedestrians). But the problems I mention are very difficult and its not clear they can be solved foreseeably.
12-22-19, 11:04 AM
#31
Senior Member
Angle grinder is mostly not a bike tool. Bikes have little excess material. They are light. Consumers want light, designers mostly give it to them.
Learn parts. Learn to find parts. Find the oldest LBS mechanic in town. There is no reason for a person with good general mechanical ability to work on bikes for a living. Except that they love bikes.
The bike built to be maintained by shade tree mechanics or kitchen mechanics or 12 year old boys was the Chicago Schwinn. Late 40s to late 70s. The good ones are all over 40 years old and a lot of them are still going. There's a reason for that. They were all designed by Frank Schwinn and you will learn his thought and method.
Learn parts. Learn to find parts. Find the oldest LBS mechanic in town. There is no reason for a person with good general mechanical ability to work on bikes for a living. Except that they love bikes.
The bike built to be maintained by shade tree mechanics or kitchen mechanics or 12 year old boys was the Chicago Schwinn. Late 40s to late 70s. The good ones are all over 40 years old and a lot of them are still going. There's a reason for that. They were all designed by Frank Schwinn and you will learn his thought and method.
12-24-19, 04:12 AM
#32
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When I was a boy I had a Schwinn and that started a lifetime of messing with bikes. I grew up as a poor immigrant in Oxnard California being raised by my Irish Mum. My bike was evidence of our humble means. It needed a lot of attention and some of it I had neither the skill nor tools to fulfill. Lucky for me , just down the street , there was a Schwinn shop that was run by the most generous man in the city. He would fix what I couldn’t and never asked for money. If it was something that he felt I could do , he would teach me. I slowly collected tools by mowing peoples yards and using the money for tools found at yard sales, and eventually a Sting Ray bike that I got cheap and fixed up. This was life for a boy in the sixties and at some point I will read that book I have heard so much about. I still mess with bikes at 65 years young and ride them frequently, remembering those summers and a most generous man that was the beginning of a love affair with basic mechanical skills leading to a life where I can fix things for myself and others. I still work with my hands and have built bicycles , numerous Volkswagens, a Porsche , a Mercedes Benz, countless small block Chevies, Fords , and occasionally my daughters Fiat. Fix it again Tony! Joe. joesvintageroadbikes.wordpress
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12-24-19, 06:51 AM
#33
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The same probably could be said for almost any English/European manufactured 3-speed bicycle sold before 1979 in the U.S.
12-24-19, 07:47 AM
#34
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12-24-19, 10:50 AM
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I have "opened" (and closed) both Bendix coaster hubs and Ashtabula cranks, though never any that were installed on a near bullet proof (maintenance -wise) English/European manufactured 3-speed bicycle, and will therefore repeat that English/European manufactured 3-speed bicycles were built to be maintained by shade tree mechanics or kitchen mechanics or 12 year old boys, if maintained at all. Late 40s to late 70s. The good ones are all over 40 years old and a lot of them are still going. There's a reason for that.
12-24-19, 11:21 AM
#36
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I have "opened" (and closed) both Bendix coaster hubs and Ashtabula cranks, though never any that were installed on a near bullet proof (maintenance -wise) English/European manufactured 3-speed bicycle, and will therefore repeat that English/European manufactured 3-speed bicycles were built to be maintained by shade tree mechanics or kitchen mechanics or 12 year old boys, if maintained at all. Late 40s to late 70s. The good ones are all over 40 years old and a lot of them are still going. There's a reason for that.
Scanning the bike racks at the train stations there are still a handful of aboriginal Schwinns in service. Not a lot any longer. Last old Raleighs vanished about a decade back. Any in-service old Raleighs or Puchs or Peugeots I know of are in the hands of collectors. What Schwinn, and particularly Frank Schwinn and Frank Brilando, accomplished and gave to us was unique. Euro bikes were intended to be serviced in shops. Shops of a type that only occasionally existed in US.
12-24-19, 01:45 PM
#37
Senior Member
Just a few weeks ago using an angle grinder and not paying attention a knuckle on the left hand nicked the disc and it was taken down to the bone in an instant. Crap! Went inside to wash it, treat it with antibiotic and a bandage, then went back out to the garage to finish the job. Dealt with the pain at a later time.
30 years ago I was as soooo excited to read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Was soooo disappointed with the level of drivel and BS in it. Guess I am not much of a thinker, just a doer because it has to get done. Jump, sir?! Yes, sir! How high, sir?! Yeah, not much going on inside my head. It is all black and white to me.
30 years ago I was as soooo excited to read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Was soooo disappointed with the level of drivel and BS in it. Guess I am not much of a thinker, just a doer because it has to get done. Jump, sir?! Yes, sir! How high, sir?! Yeah, not much going on inside my head. It is all black and white to me.
12-24-19, 02:15 PM
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In the absence of collision damage or total submersion, I suspect the frequency with which cottered cranks on 3 speed bikes, ridden by 12 year old boys as well as the cottered cranks on 3 speed bikes of most other riders, needed servicing was about the same as the frequency for needed servicing of the 3 speed hub internals; seldom if not next to never. Even then, it wasn't all that complicated or difficult for anyone willing to "mess with a bicycle", even before the day of YouTube and the Internet.
12-24-19, 04:40 PM
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Despite what some claim wax is not a lubricant. The only thing a waxed chain has going for it is the fact it is somewhat clean.
Using Mobil 1 oil and wiping my chain down before every ride has yielded a life of 8000 miles on my bike and trike's chain.
Using Mobil 1 oil and wiping my chain down before every ride has yielded a life of 8000 miles on my bike and trike's chain.
12-25-19, 09:34 AM
#40
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Zen and the Art of Messing with Bikes
Back in the 70s, my then-girlfriend-now-wife was working as a nurse in a Tertiary Care Hospital and a grateful patient, a young woman of similar age with a serious condition gave my girlfriend that book. I didn’t read it, and doubt I would subscribe to its philosophy.
Even today, all my bike work is done by my shop, though I did some stuff back then at the dawn of my cycling lifestyle for lack of money, with abundant time. Even though I have periodically practiced yoga, I ignore the meditative aspects, and have listened to radio talk shows while doing it.
My girlfriend at that time also wore white Earth Shoes, and for her gentle nature was known 'Earth Nurse." Those shoes were another icon of the 70s, and look how they have persisted in the popular culture.
I bought a pair to curry favor with her, but someone said they looked like Frankenstein shoes, especially with my bell-bottom pants. 
The 'Zen' reference comes from a cultish book from the seventies, 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance' …
Great book! Read it about 30 years ago in college for fun. We've all had those times where the value of getting one pesky bolt out approximates the value of the whole bike/car/motorcycle. Welcome.
Ah, but Persig didn't put a smiley at the end of his book's title .
Fair point, though. I should read it again. I remember enjoying it immensely, so thanks for the push.
Cheers!
Fair point, though. I should read it again. I remember enjoying it immensely, so thanks for the push.
Cheers!
Even today, all my bike work is done by my shop, though I did some stuff back then at the dawn of my cycling lifestyle for lack of money, with abundant time. Even though I have periodically practiced yoga, I ignore the meditative aspects, and have listened to radio talk shows while doing it.
My girlfriend at that time also wore white Earth Shoes, and for her gentle nature was known 'Earth Nurse." Those shoes were another icon of the 70s, and look how they have persisted in the popular culture.
I bought a pair to curry favor with her, but someone said they looked like Frankenstein shoes, especially with my bell-bottom pants.
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 12-28-19 at 01:44 PM. Reason: added quote by berner, then added photo
12-25-19, 01:33 PM
#41
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snip
The bike built to be maintained by shade tree mechanics or kitchen mechanics or 12 year old boys was the Chicago Schwinn. Late 40s to late 70s. The good ones are all over 40 years old and a lot of them are still going. There's a reason for that. They were all designed by Frank Schwinn and you will learn his thought and method.
The bike built to be maintained by shade tree mechanics or kitchen mechanics or 12 year old boys was the Chicago Schwinn. Late 40s to late 70s. The good ones are all over 40 years old and a lot of them are still going. There's a reason for that. They were all designed by Frank Schwinn and you will learn his thought and method.
I still like the simplicity of those bikes; truly, all you needed was a couple adjustable wrenches and a couple screwdrivers. We even used screwdrivers to mount and dismount tires.
12-25-19, 04:47 PM
#42
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It wasn't just Schwinns; nearly all the bikes I saw growing up in the 50s were built along the same general pattern: one-piece cranks, single-speed coaster brakes.
...I still like the simplicity of those bikes; truly, all you needed was a couple adjustable wrenches and a couple screwdrivers. We even used screwdrivers to mount and dismount tires.
...I still like the simplicity of those bikes; truly, all you needed was a couple adjustable wrenches and a couple screwdrivers. We even used screwdrivers to mount and dismount tires.
August 1955 and the bicycling was easy and fun, enabled by bicycles designed and built for same. Still is IMO, despite all the Sturm und Drang about bicycling found elsewhere in BF.
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12-27-19, 04:32 PM
#43
Banned.
I read the book during the summer, little by little at the pool when my daughter was around 8 or 9 years old.
The author had an alter-ego who he called Phaedrus (IIRC).
Phaedrus was super distracted with trying to obtain “quality” in his pursuits. He talked about “metaphysics” and a lot of classical philosophy was laced into it, some of which I understood.
He loved on his basic Honda motorcycle and went through much consternation when a friend spent much, much more money on a BMW motorcycle that had much more advanced engineering which amounted to very little in Pirsig’s world due to the owner’s mechanical ineptitude and unappreciative attitude.
My takeaway as a cyclist and a mechanic is that we possess all we need right now to last a long time. Bikes are super efficient, healthy and much less crude than any car, truck or motorcycle.
When I consider what can be done to reduce fossil fuel emissions - the answer for a lot of more people is not robotic self driving cars, it has more to do with taking that garage sale Schwinn, pumping up the tires & riding up to the grocery store to get what you need.
The author had an alter-ego who he called Phaedrus (IIRC).
Phaedrus was super distracted with trying to obtain “quality” in his pursuits. He talked about “metaphysics” and a lot of classical philosophy was laced into it, some of which I understood.
He loved on his basic Honda motorcycle and went through much consternation when a friend spent much, much more money on a BMW motorcycle that had much more advanced engineering which amounted to very little in Pirsig’s world due to the owner’s mechanical ineptitude and unappreciative attitude.
My takeaway as a cyclist and a mechanic is that we possess all we need right now to last a long time. Bikes are super efficient, healthy and much less crude than any car, truck or motorcycle.
When I consider what can be done to reduce fossil fuel emissions - the answer for a lot of more people is not robotic self driving cars, it has more to do with taking that garage sale Schwinn, pumping up the tires & riding up to the grocery store to get what you need.
air is composed of far less than 1% Carbon Dioxide
carbon dioxide has no affect on the atmosphere
https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Scie...perties_of_Air
01-09-20, 12:10 PM
#44
Senior Member
[QUOTE=robalong;21241795]Hmmm...'value'...hmmm...
What is that?
"I can't remember too much in detail about the book, but it has had a lifelong effect on me. Something about...looking at things from a perspective other than the obvious...about really applying the mind in pursuit of a goal, no matter how trivial that goal might seem to someone else. One on level, it's about winning by overcoming the problem. But there's more to it; the whole process of really getting into and enjoying the power of one's mind is fascinating. I remember the impatience of my youth. It has been replaced with...hard to say exactly...perhaps a better sense of...things being somehow part of us while at the same time being disposable.
(A quick aside...someone once told me a story about a guy who had a wonderful classic car but didn't have a garage. He had to park it at the side of his house. He'd wake up several times a night to check that all was okay with the car. On the night of a terrible storm, the guy was awakened by a dreadful crashing noise. He jumped to the window and looked out, to see that the chimney stack had been blown off the roof and down on to his precious car. He died instantly from a heart attack.The reason? The guy didn't HAVE the car, he WAS the car!)
I have to admit here and now that I'm a pervert, in that I really enjoy myself when stuff goes wrong. A new challenge! How dull it would all be if stuff never went wrong. Dealing with upscrewedicity for many decades has been delightful. Some you win, some you lose, but the failures teach you more than the successes, probably".BELOW IS MY COMMENT TO THE ABOVE QUOTE:
Yes. I have been off and on for a year been solving problems converting a 7 speed MTB to 21 speeds with the exact gears I want and adding a front wheel electric motor with 3 SLA batteries. Mounting and wiring was a Zen like challenge. Just turned on the motor this morning and IT WORKS!
What is that?
"I can't remember too much in detail about the book, but it has had a lifelong effect on me. Something about...looking at things from a perspective other than the obvious...about really applying the mind in pursuit of a goal, no matter how trivial that goal might seem to someone else. One on level, it's about winning by overcoming the problem. But there's more to it; the whole process of really getting into and enjoying the power of one's mind is fascinating. I remember the impatience of my youth. It has been replaced with...hard to say exactly...perhaps a better sense of...things being somehow part of us while at the same time being disposable.
(A quick aside...someone once told me a story about a guy who had a wonderful classic car but didn't have a garage. He had to park it at the side of his house. He'd wake up several times a night to check that all was okay with the car. On the night of a terrible storm, the guy was awakened by a dreadful crashing noise. He jumped to the window and looked out, to see that the chimney stack had been blown off the roof and down on to his precious car. He died instantly from a heart attack.The reason? The guy didn't HAVE the car, he WAS the car!)
I have to admit here and now that I'm a pervert, in that I really enjoy myself when stuff goes wrong. A new challenge! How dull it would all be if stuff never went wrong. Dealing with upscrewedicity for many decades has been delightful. Some you win, some you lose, but the failures teach you more than the successes, probably".BELOW IS MY COMMENT TO THE ABOVE QUOTE:
Yes. I have been off and on for a year been solving problems converting a 7 speed MTB to 21 speeds with the exact gears I want and adding a front wheel electric motor with 3 SLA batteries. Mounting and wiring was a Zen like challenge. Just turned on the motor this morning and IT WORKS!
Last edited by yukiinu; 01-09-20 at 12:16 PM.
