Catching the draft... how close is too close?
07-14-20, 06:25 AM
#101
Pointy Helmet Tribe
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Offthebackistan
Posts: 4,338
Bikes: R5, Allez Sprint, Shiv
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 519 Post(s)
Liked 627 Times
in
295 Posts
I guess I didnt realize the uniqueness of the North Shore scene. This past weekend Three guys passed me and I jumped on their wheel. With the four of us total age probably exeeded 250 yrs. I allowed them to rotate the lead, I hung in the back. We were all similar build so I was getting an excellent draft. When they picked up the pace is when I tucked in close to the wheel in front of me to get maximum draft effect. I only ride on weekends so my conditioning is not the best. So riding really close can make my effort considerably less. And thats when I started thinking, hmm how close is too close?
Maybe its the abundance of riders with abundance of experience that makes it accepted to draft at will. Or maybe its the parade-like atmosphere. So many riders all with somewhat the same intention. Its just commonplace to jump in to any group that passes. From responses this is not the norm. Here in my neighborhood its just what we do.
Maybe its the abundance of riders with abundance of experience that makes it accepted to draft at will. Or maybe its the parade-like atmosphere. So many riders all with somewhat the same intention. Its just commonplace to jump in to any group that passes. From responses this is not the norm. Here in my neighborhood its just what we do.
Likes For guadzilla:
07-14-20, 06:32 AM
#102
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,635
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4733 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,003 Posts
And thats when I started thinking, hmm how close is too close?
Maybe its the abundance of riders with abundance of experience that makes it accepted to draft at will. Or maybe its the parade-like atmosphere. So many riders all with somewhat the same intention. Its just commonplace to jump in to any group that passes. From responses this is not the norm. Here in my neighborhood its just what we do.
Maybe its the abundance of riders with abundance of experience that makes it accepted to draft at will. Or maybe its the parade-like atmosphere. So many riders all with somewhat the same intention. Its just commonplace to jump in to any group that passes. From responses this is not the norm. Here in my neighborhood its just what we do.
Likes For Sy Reene:
07-14-20, 06:32 AM
#103
Senior Member
07-14-20, 07:00 AM
#104
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,445
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4234 Post(s)
Liked 2,949 Times
in
1,808 Posts
Cool story, but you still aren't understanding why people can't/won't answer your question. Presuming you decide to follow a rider you don't know, have never followed before, and know neither if they have 1 week or 10 years of riding experience -- how can it be answered as to what's a safe distance to follow from?
07-14-20, 07:09 AM
#105
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Cool story, but you still aren't understanding why people can't/won't answer your question. Presuming you decide to follow a rider you don't know, have never followed before, and know neither if they have 1 week or 10 years of riding experience -- how can it be answered as to what's a safe distance to follow from?
07-14-20, 07:10 AM
#106
Full Member
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 425
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 167 Post(s)
Liked 291 Times
in
163 Posts
If I see a lone cyclist or group ahead who are riding/training at a slower pace, I'll pass them and greet them. If they invite me to join them, I'll decide in the moment but otherwise I will continue my ride alone.
Quite often, I want to train alone anyway - HIIT, Time Trials etc, I'm working against my previous times and don't want any help. If I pick up someone drafting me, they have to understand if I'm doing HIIT and not in one sequence but over the course of many punchy hills etc, then I'm going to be going full gas and then slowing to recover without warning - not ideal for someone just looking for a wheel to save energy from. I love sprint training so do it a lot. If I'm against the clock for a particular route, I'll let the person drafting know and they can suck the wheel but not help. I don't have any big issues with anyone on my wheel, I'm more concerned with my own training not being interrupted and if they can stay on my wheel, they must have some reasonable cycling experience.
Typically my Group rides are Club rides or pre-arranged training with others outside of racing. Joining others on the road is very rare. Happily, while I mentioned my views on others hopping onto my wheel, it hasn't happened in the past year so very rare too.
Quite often, I want to train alone anyway - HIIT, Time Trials etc, I'm working against my previous times and don't want any help. If I pick up someone drafting me, they have to understand if I'm doing HIIT and not in one sequence but over the course of many punchy hills etc, then I'm going to be going full gas and then slowing to recover without warning - not ideal for someone just looking for a wheel to save energy from. I love sprint training so do it a lot. If I'm against the clock for a particular route, I'll let the person drafting know and they can suck the wheel but not help. I don't have any big issues with anyone on my wheel, I'm more concerned with my own training not being interrupted and if they can stay on my wheel, they must have some reasonable cycling experience.
Typically my Group rides are Club rides or pre-arranged training with others outside of racing. Joining others on the road is very rare. Happily, while I mentioned my views on others hopping onto my wheel, it hasn't happened in the past year so very rare too.
Likes For AlgarveCycling:
07-14-20, 07:35 AM
#107
Non omnino gravis
The more experienced a rider is, the more I think they'd be put out by someone trying to come and leech off the work they're doing. Wanna feed off of a draft? Get with a group that all has the same intentions.
Uninvited drafting is like hopping into a pick-up basketball game and just taking random shots.
__________________
Likes For DrIsotope:
07-14-20, 07:55 AM
#109
Jedi Master
This is the point that everyone seems to miss. On a Saturday morning along Sheridan Road it's more like a fondo or an organized century than just some stretch of road most people are used to. On the 15 miles from Ft. Sheridan to Bahai I might pass several dozen riders in the same direction and several hundred going the other way. I doubt there are very many stretches of road in the world like that.
07-14-20, 08:06 AM
#110
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,635
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4733 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,003 Posts
This is the point that everyone seems to miss. On a Saturday morning along Sheridan Road it's more like a fondo or an organized century than just some stretch of road most people are used to. On the 15 miles from Ft. Sheridan to Bahai I might pass several dozen riders in the same direction and several hundred going the other way. I doubt there are very many stretches of road in the world like that.
07-14-20, 08:08 AM
#111
Full Member
07-14-20, 08:13 AM
#112
Jedi Master
No one is forced to do anything, but that's what people do. Especially the senior B/C riders the OP is hooking up with. It's really not that big of a deal. If you are fast it is literally impossible to always maintain 30' distance since you do have to pass a lot of slower riders.
07-14-20, 08:27 AM
#113
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: VA
Posts: 1,437
Bikes: SuperSix Evo | Revolt
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 733 Post(s)
Liked 815 Times
in
414 Posts
I guess I didnt realize the uniqueness of the North Shore scene. This past weekend Three guys passed me and I jumped on their wheel. With the four of us total age probably exeeded 250 yrs. I allowed them to rotate the lead, I hung in the back. We were all similar build so I was getting an excellent draft. When they picked up the pace is when I tucked in close to the wheel in front of me to get maximum draft effect. I only ride on weekends so my conditioning is not the best. So riding really close can make my effort considerably less. And thats when I started thinking, hmm how close is too close?
Stop sucking wheels and get up front, maybe your fitness will improve. 
Likes For Jack Tone:
07-14-20, 08:38 AM
#115
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,635
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4733 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,003 Posts
No one is forced to do anything, but that's what people do. Especially the senior B/C riders the OP is hooking up with. It's really not that big of a deal. If you are fast it is literally impossible to always maintain 30' distance since you do have to pass a lot of slower riders.
Here's how works out here, and how I think it works in most necks of the woods. If you want to ride with a group, you join that group or club, and meet them at the organized start of the scheduled ride. With some group rides there's no joining necessary, but you are supposed to be at the scheduled start point at the designated time (eg. LBS "shop rides" or similar).
Maybe sounds like your area could benefit from more clubs? That way riders know each other at least to some extent before heading out. And, there's no uncertainty as to whether the person you're following wants to be followed or absorbed into a paceline.
07-14-20, 08:39 AM
#116
serious cyclist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 21,147
Bikes: S1, R2, P2
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9334 Post(s)
Liked 3,679 Times
in
2,026 Posts
My problem with wheelsuckers is nobody ever asked me. All of a sudden, there's just a guy a foot off my wheel, and I never offered to be his personal windbreak. If they can't manage that speed on their own, they can't manage it at all, AFAIC.
The more experienced a rider is, the more I think they'd be put out by someone trying to come and leech off the work they're doing. Wanna feed off of a draft? Get with a group that all has the same intentions.
Uninvited drafting is like hopping into a pick-up basketball game and just taking random shots.
The more experienced a rider is, the more I think they'd be put out by someone trying to come and leech off the work they're doing. Wanna feed off of a draft? Get with a group that all has the same intentions.
Uninvited drafting is like hopping into a pick-up basketball game and just taking random shots.
Likes For Bah Humbug:
07-14-20, 09:09 AM
#117
Jedi Master
Here's how works out here, and how I think it works in most necks of the woods. If you want to ride with a group, you join that group or club, and meet them at the organized start of the scheduled ride. With some group rides there's no joining necessary, but you are supposed to be at the scheduled start point at the designated time (eg. LBS "shop rides" or similar).
Maybe sounds like your area could benefit from more clubs? That way riders know each other at least to some extent before heading out. And, there's no uncertainty as to whether the person you're following wants to be followed or absorbed into a paceline.
Maybe sounds like your area could benefit from more clubs? That way riders know each other at least to some extent before heading out. And, there's no uncertainty as to whether the person you're following wants to be followed or absorbed into a paceline.
07-14-20, 09:11 AM
#118
Jedi Master
Likes For kingston:
07-14-20, 09:11 AM
#119
Senior Member
Thread Starter
If I took a turn I would only hinder their progress. The other guys pointed out road debris fir me and had no issue with me hanging on.
Last edited by big chainring; 07-14-20 at 09:24 AM.
07-14-20, 09:13 AM
#120
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,659
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1248 Post(s)
Liked 1,323 Times
in
674 Posts
I guess I didnt realize the uniqueness of the North Shore scene. This past weekend Three guys passed me and I jumped on their wheel. With the four of us total age probably exeeded 250 yrs. I allowed them to rotate the lead, I hung in the back. We were all similar build so I was getting an excellent draft. When they picked up the pace is when I tucked in close to the wheel in front of me to get maximum draft effect. I only ride on weekends so my conditioning is not the best. So riding really close can make my effort considerably less. And thats when I started thinking, hmm how close is too close?
Maybe its the abundance of riders with abundance of experience that makes it accepted to draft at will. Or maybe its the parade-like atmosphere. So many riders all with somewhat the same intention. Its just commonplace to jump in to any group that passes. From responses this is not the norm. Here in my neighborhood its just what we do.
Maybe its the abundance of riders with abundance of experience that makes it accepted to draft at will. Or maybe its the parade-like atmosphere. So many riders all with somewhat the same intention. Its just commonplace to jump in to any group that passes. From responses this is not the norm. Here in my neighborhood its just what we do.
Likes For Atlas Shrugged:
07-14-20, 09:17 AM
#121
serious cyclist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 21,147
Bikes: S1, R2, P2
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9334 Post(s)
Liked 3,679 Times
in
2,026 Posts
Oh everyone gets what you’re doing. You’d obviously get better training without the draft, though, because you’d have to work harder. You just want to go faster than you can, and you don’t care about anything else.
Likes For Bah Humbug:
07-14-20, 09:26 AM
#122
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Likes For RChung:
07-14-20, 09:31 AM
#124
Senior Member
Thread Starter
07-14-20, 10:08 AM
#125
Senior Member
If asked whether drafting is safe, the more vocal posters here will say it's absolutely unsafe at any distance. I think as a cyclist you assume certain risks while riding and ultimately it's up to you and the person/people you're drafting to decide whether the risks are worth the enjoyment. It's dickish to latch onto a wheel unannounced just as it would be to randomly slide in next to someone on the sidewalk and put your arm around their waist. Ask first. But if everyone is a consenting adult--well, that's no one else's business.
Interestingly, there's some legal literature about drafting that's explained here: https://www.zifflaw.com/ny-bike-acci...ion-of-ny-law/.
Interestingly, there's some legal literature about drafting that's explained here: https://www.zifflaw.com/ny-bike-acci...ion-of-ny-law/.