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Old 07-08-20, 07:00 AM
  #726  
burnthesheep
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Ha, yeah. I did do layers and take my time. But, I eat up enough time around the house with DIY projects to save the house money. I also eat up enough time with waxing chains. So, gluing was one thing I determined needed to go.

I fixed the power meter issue on the TT bike. Backcountry was offloading some Quarq d-four meters for $399 including cranks. If the q-factor of the crank worked for your bike that is. I got the right threaded BB. To get the Q-factor to work I had to make a couple MM shim to put inside the spline connection so that it would snug up tight but give me 2mm.

It seems the included crank shaft q-factor was that couple mm too short for my use. The 54T ring would have ground on the chainstay.

But, it works great now! The power figures are meaningful and accurate! Dual sided also FTW. First ride out the speed and power made a LOT more sense. Also, no more mismatched crank length left to right by that tiny bit. 165mm all the way.

First ride out it said my balance was 47/53 overall. Doesn't seem too bad. Could account for a good amount of the lower left-only meter readings.

I feel now if using a speed sensor with this meter I can really do some better aero-testing.

Also last night I found a flattish un-disturbed 1.8mi loop about 4mi from the house. It has one 20 second leg on an open road, but about 1.5mi of it is very controlled. Not the fastest pavement, but would be a great testing ground.

The HED 9+ front comes Friday. Then it's just figuring out what to do with the delayed extensions. Ugh.
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Old 07-13-20, 08:22 AM
  #727  
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Hi,

I have a shimano ultegra crankset, 110BCD, in the TT bike with 52/36 rings. I want to change the chainrings to 54/46T. Do you guys know who sell such rings? and can I fit a 56T chainring in a shimano 110bcd crank?

thanks!
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Old 07-13-20, 08:43 AM
  #728  
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Rotor chainrings do. They sell them oval and round. It may be rare, but Shimano 9100 or Dura Ace would be the ones most likely to have the larger rings past 53T. A quick search showed places selling the 9100 crank with 54/42. Not sure why you'd want the 46 instead of a 42, but that's what they seem to sell. You'd have to replace the inner ring if that's what you wanted.

Depending on what the companies offer, your limitation on max chainring size will wind up being how high you can raise your FD if running in a 2x setup. You may have to buy or make a shim to raise the FD more. I think one of the British time trial gear websites sells such a thing. Drag2zero, Aerocoach, or something like that.

Otherwise, your q-factor and chainstay may be a limiter on largest ring size. Some bikes start having issues above 53T and 54T. Then you'd have to shim the ring.

Most of the megasized TT bike chainring setups you see are on 1x setups. So no FD height issues for the big boys in Britain running 60T rings. Geeeesh that's huge.
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Old 07-13-20, 08:51 AM
  #729  
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Thank you!

I found a used Dura Ace 55/42T chainrings in Ebay, and just bought it.
appreciate it the thorough reply!
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Old 07-15-20, 12:18 PM
  #730  
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Enjoy. I love the hobby.

I just got my "new to me" HED 9+ front wheel in the mail yesterday. Came with a Vittoria CS, new latex tubes (unmounted), skewer. Looks hardly ever used.

I'm taking the Vittoria off to run a GP5000 in training. I find the Vittoria CS just a touch fragile to train on.

I want to be able to handle that thing up to a yaw angle on the chart where you start to see some cool things happen. Meaning, actually riding it instead of it sitting in a wheel bag until a couple races a year.
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Old 07-30-20, 09:16 AM
  #731  
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This weekend (assuming we aren't in a civil war) I am going to the video tape. I've fixed everything and by my measurements am within the UCI box now. Even if I don't need to be.

I actually feel more comfy and secure. I'll shoot video and play with the stack some. I added back the 1.25 to 1.5 inch I dropped in stack by going to the stem fix with that Aeria Ultimate versus the original Felt spline stem.

Without those spacers in, I feel like I hit my limit on hip angle and making power or something.

I'll post up when I have it done.

Oh........question............what's the deal with using junior cassettes (14-25) and a huge huge chainring? Efficiency? I see folks doing that. Not that I would, I like what I have, just asking so I can learn.
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Old 07-30-20, 12:20 PM
  #732  
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Run the calculation on increased friction due to chain bending around different cassettes. It is significant. Hour record set up with big big. At least a 15t rear cassette

Last edited by Hermes; 07-31-20 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 07-31-20, 11:06 AM
  #733  
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I've tried tilting the entire assembly while waiting on some parts to come in. I had some time on hand so decided to shoot new video. I tried to measure fit coordinates the best possible by looking at a guide here on ST. I wanted to do this again after doing my little Felt DA spline stem elimination.

Here is the info:
BB to saddle, height: 74.5 cm
Saddle setback: 5cm
Stack, BB to pad center: 67cm, about 2.5cm less with lower stack video
Reach, BB to pad cener: ~48.5cm, hard to get this one
extensions/pad height: 10cm
extensions/BB distance: 75cm
Tilt angle: 15 deg
Saddle angle: 5 deg
Rider height: 5’ 9.5”
Crankset: 165mm w/ Speedplay zero
Video 1: higher stack
I think this is what I'm going to go with for now......the lower stack I can't make as much power and looking at the video and photos I don't see a super appreciable difference. Either way, this higher stack is within a cm of before I replaced the original Felt DA spline stem. Replacing it and using the Aeria Ultimate stem, I dropped the front end a solid 1" to 1.25". So, adding that sack spacers back gets me where I was before.

https://www.youtube.com/...amp;feature=youtu.be

Video 2: lower stack
Doesn't look a ton lower and I simply can't make any power here. I don't know if I am reach some limitation on my body there or what, but it makes a difference. Super short video, just wasn't that interested in this setup.

https://www.youtube.com/...amp;feature=youtu.be
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Old 07-31-20, 12:35 PM
  #734  
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If I suspect your seat could go a little higher but it looks okay in the video. When I did my fit with ERO in conjunction with aero testing, Manton raised my seat a lot. Time trial specialists do not need to spin fast versus mass start racers. When I set up my track frame, I have two seat posts, one for sprinting in the drops and the other for longer pursuit efforts.

Everything looks great.
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Old 07-31-20, 12:49 PM
  #735  
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With respect to more versus less seat to bar drop and hip angle, it is important to accurately test different positions. In practice, there may not be much, if any, difference in CdA between the two positions and the lower position may be worse. If the lower position tests better then it is a matter of strength and adaptation to bring up the power level.
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Old 08-04-20, 07:33 AM
  #736  
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I replaced my custom tilt solution with the real parts from Aerocoach last night. So, no more rigged up stuff. The box came in the mail after 3 months.

I liked the bars enough I went with those instead of any home-done stuff. The grips and stuff are so clean and ergonomic.

Same position. I had setup the bike to the dimensions of their bars, so only real change is the more ergonomic hand grip angle.

Their arm pads will be a comfort and secure game changer. Pads that came with my bars were crap.

I'll take pics later as it stormed last night.
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Old 08-06-20, 08:55 AM
  #737  
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All shelf parts now. Same position, I had used their website dimensions for the poles to setup those videos with my other parts.

The stack to seat may look a lot closer due to angle of pic. Trust me, it's definitely below it. I rode it at lunch on that cockpit but on training wheels, road helmet, and road kit. About 27.5mph on 300w avg out/back during some intervals. I'd suspect a good gain going with the race wheels and skinsuit/TT helmet. Also, the road was ****. Bumps and a bit rough. It was a fun workout. Including low low Z2 and upper Z1 recovery I still averaged 23mph for the ride. The Quarq also reads a lot closer to reality now instead of how low the old single sided Stages used to read.

Pad width spacing needs to go out a bit. I forgot to install the pole clamps the right sides to account for the Aerocoach carbon pad supports. It wasn't unbearable given the side support I have now, but it's too narrow right now. Which makes keeping the head correct harder than if I fix it.

I'm proud of it. Less and less of a hack job.

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Old 09-04-20, 10:00 AM
  #738  
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Super noob question here - when going from road/track to TT position on the same bike, do you go with a shorter stem, or longer?

I'm considering buying some open-source Chinese TT bars with the adjustable risers. For starters, I want to put them on my track bike and mess around a bit at coach's hours on T or F morning, do some pursuit stuff. Later I plan on transferring it to my actual TT bike and getting some electronic shifting. Or maybe a second set! If I really like them.

On my track bike I ride a 120 mm stem, not sure if I should buy a shorter one or not to pair with the bars.
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Old 09-04-20, 02:57 PM
  #739  
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I do not think there is a rule of thumb answer to your question. And setup questions for TT and pursuit for USAC / UCI are different than triathlon.

To give you an idea of how ridiculous UCI rules are, you and I would essentially ride the same bike with maybe a slightly different setup such as seat height and aerobar pad spacing.

The gating question is do you want to be UCI compliant for pursuit and TT? In general, USAC seems to becoming more lax in enforcing rules even at national championships but they are sticklers when it comes to setting record.

My wife and I train and race in UCI compliant setup. This is the way we started and now we can do it so why change what works.

If you ride UCI, then the limits are 75 cm from the centerline of the crank to the end of the aerobar extension and the nose of the saddle must be 5 cm set back from the centerline of the crank. You can have one morphological exemption. 80 cm for the extension or zero offset for the seat setback. I take the 80 cm and ride on the nose of the saddle.

The other limit is the tilt of the aerobars and the tip of the bars cannot be higher than 10 cm above the pads. This is somewhat of a must have when buying aerobars. Some racers are slower in the raised bars position but most are not.

Moving the pads fore and aft is a matter of stem length and generally one does not want ones knees to hit the pads but you can see that it starts where you plan to put your ass. So if you deep six UCI, you could slam the seat more forward then you need a longer stem and aerobars.

I have a bag of stems of different lengths. Do not buy any stems. I will give you the bag and let you play around with them. Then you can figure out which one works and take that one or buy one.

If you want to get masked up and come over, I will show you our setups and once you see how to do it, it is trivial to set up a bike. It is less trivial to optimize for CdA but that is another matter.
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Old 09-04-20, 03:10 PM
  #740  
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TMonk The other consideration for aerobars is having the bullhorns well below the pads. You do not want the bull horns at the same elevation as the pads for pursuit. In pursuit, the start is important and you want a low starting position since on the back stretch, you will be standing and going fast. Having bullhorns that are lower improves CdA. That is not that important for TT or TTTs that are longer in duration.
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Old 09-04-20, 03:21 PM
  #741  
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Thanks for the advice and equipment offer. The philosophy in frame sizing these days seems to be the base bar super low and then just adjust the aerobar height w the spacers between the base bar and pad. I see myself moving in this direction for both road and track TT.

UCI not likely to be applicable. I see myself racing this at states level but national level is not likely, or at least not of immediate concern. For now I may just try on my current setup, ride a few laps at SDVA and see how it goes. I think I might want a different post and saddle for pursuit stuff at the track as well - like a fwd facing post and different saddle.
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Old 09-04-20, 08:01 PM
  #742  
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I have found a nice hack to the 10cm rule is what grip you run on the extension. Running smooth round only makes it tougher. If you have the little “tab” or the pistol grip other hour and pursuit riders use sometimes you can learn to hold the bar in the last finger or two of each hand and gain reach and height.

There are track picks floating around of this stuff.

My new off the shelf extensions are like that and I can grip with my pinky and next finger of I like. That’s like 1.5” horizontal and 1/4” vertical gain versus a full hand death grip.

Also note the TT and pursuit folks don’t rest their elbows on the pads. It is closer to a bit of forearm. Triathlon folks usually rest the elbow all the way on the pad, an Ironman is 4+ hrs ride versus one hour.

The best pics of that are Drag2Zero and their ergo UCI legal bars compared to the triathlon bars. It explains it perfectly.

So, if you get used to riding holding your weight on the forearm instead and using the last fingers on the extensions.....good dimensional fit gains against the UCI “box”.
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Old 09-10-20, 07:51 AM
  #743  
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Just for the sake of being ridiculous......it's pretty pan flat out by my work. I'm interested in trying out a fixed gear. Does HED or someone make an 11spd/fixed hub kind of part you can swap in and out? So you can own a single wheel for TT and for track? Or is this a fool's errand?

I see kits online, but it looks like the college student hipster kind of crap more so than what I'm really after.
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Old 09-10-20, 08:51 AM
  #744  
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Zipp has a conversion for its rear discs to go from fixed gear to freewheel cassette. I have it. I convert the rear disc from road to track and use it on my track bike. I am not sure about HED although HED makes track wheels including fixed gear rear.

Riders convert geared bikes to fixed but the bike loses its ability to run as a geared bike.

Is your goal to keep your TT bike set up to be geared and just add a fixed rear wheel?
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Old 09-10-20, 09:24 AM
  #745  
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I was hoping for a product that isn't a permanent swap. Then change over the HED rear disc from geared to fixed as I desire. Not daily, but leave it that way a week or two at a time. I maybe assumed incorrectly that parts for a quicker swap existed. On further looking, I'm seeing entire shaft/assemblies instead. Which would ruin my idea. I was hoping for a 5 to 10min swap.

In case I ever wanted to do the class and visit Rock Hill someday I would have an option. My TT bike, if fixed gear, already meets BB, crank length, horizontal dropout needs.

But if it's a permanent thing, I'll take a pass.
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Old 09-10-20, 09:35 AM
  #746  
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The Zipp one isn't hard to swap - at least the old Zipp 900 option isn't. However, Zipp doesn't make the 900 track axle any more - and it's increasingly difficult to find.

If you want to try using your TT bike as a FG, I think you are better off buying a cheap fixed wheelset. Velomine has some for about $100. And I think you'll need 3/32 cogs.

As for RH, you can rent bikes there for $5.
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Old 09-10-20, 10:03 AM
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As I recall, Rock Hill is 250 meter outdoor concrete track with 45 degree banking. Your TT bike would be okay for pursuit in the pole lane and probably accommodate a couple of gear changes. Otherwise the BB height is too low, potential pedal strikes on the banking even with 165 cranks, when riding on the banking a slower speed.

The other problem with using a TT bike on the track is gear changes. Horizontal dropouts on a track bike are generally a couple of inches to allow for changing gears with the same length chain. For example, I warm up with 80 gear inches and then change to race gears that may range from 92 to 102 gear inches. I can run all those gear inches on my track bike using the same chain without adding or removing links. And I may make 4 gear changes for a given workout.

And yes, racers use TT bikes on the track and in fact, Kevin M set a WR at Aguascalientes, I was there, on a TT bike frame set up for fixed. One has to accept the limitations of a road frame at the track. I do not know if he races that frame for mass start at the track.

FWIW, here is what I would recommend. Get a used cheap steel, aluminum or CF track frame but with horizontal dropouts that are at least 1.5 inches of usable adjustment. Buy a cheap set of track wheels and 165 track crankset. Get three cogs - 14/15/16 and three chainrings 48/49/50 all 1/8” do not get road width 3/16”. Put on a front brake for the road and remove it for the track. You should be able to ride 48/16 on flat road terrain and have 96 gear inches or less for pursuit at Rock Hill and you have a range of gear choices for the same chain length without removing links (pain in the ass) for the road and Rock Hill.

With respect to gears, you can start with one cog and one chainring and calculated how many gear inches you want for the road and then buy more as you need them.

As a final note, if you are planning to go to the track, do not go really cheap on the track stuff - think robust. At Rock Hill you will pull 2 Gs in the turns at 35 mph. Equipment failures (or racer failures) in the turns at high speed is a disaster. I will say no more.
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Old 09-10-20, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by topflightpro
The Zipp one isn't hard to swap - at least the old Zipp 900 option isn't. However, Zipp doesn't make the 900 track axle any more - and it's increasingly difficult to find.

If you want to try using your TT bike as a FG, I think you are better off buying a cheap fixed wheelset. Velomine has some for about $100. And I think you'll need 3/32 cogs.

As for RH, you can rent bikes there for $5.
Amen. Rent a bike at RH. I did not read the rules but I suspect there is a certification process that has to take place much like Carson.

I got on a roll and provided more info than is necessary but still valid. When I started racing, an experienced racer helped me with gear/frame selection and he was correct. He saved me a lot of time, money and injury.
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Old 09-10-20, 10:47 AM
  #749  
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Sweet, got it.

Yes, there is a required half day class first. I would just rent for that. Then decide what I like and if worth jumping into.

Good point on the dropout adjustability and other points.
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Old 09-10-20, 12:36 PM
  #750  
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The certification course at RH includes the rental bike. You just need to bring shoes and cleats.

You can then use a rental bike for training and TT events. You must have your own bike for mass start and sprint events. I do believe they allow the use of rental bikes for the Wednesday night grassroots race series, which is a non-sanctioned training race series.

Feel free to PM if you have any specific questions about RH. I'm there pretty regularly.
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