Are these wheels toast ?
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Are these wheels toast ?
Attached is a pic of the braking surface on a set of Mavic GEL 280 36 spokes mounted on my vintage Wilier. Both front and back wheels show this characteristic where they seem slightly dished and it seems to take place consistently between the spokes. Can they be trued? Time to replace ?
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'Truing' won't fix that. It's totally normal on those light rims.
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If you can't decide to like the look of it (I've always thought it looks pretty cool}, you could hit the brake tracks with an orbital sander or something and remove the anodising altogether.
Bare aluminium is significantly grippier than that old school hardox surface, particularly in the wet, but it'll wear significantly faster too. The hardox is great protection against the awful galling you get when a little bit of grit stuck in the brake pad snowballs into a chunk of aluminium.
Bare aluminium is significantly grippier than that old school hardox surface, particularly in the wet, but it'll wear significantly faster too. The hardox is great protection against the awful galling you get when a little bit of grit stuck in the brake pad snowballs into a chunk of aluminium.
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If you can't decide to like the look of it (I've always thought it looks pretty cool}, you could hit the brake tracks with an orbital sander or something and remove the anodising altogether.
Bare aluminium is significantly grippier than that old school hardox surface, particularly in the wet, but it'll wear significantly faster too. The hardox is great protection against the awful galling you get when a little bit of grit stuck in the brake pad snowballs into a chunk of aluminium.
Bare aluminium is significantly grippier than that old school hardox surface, particularly in the wet, but it'll wear significantly faster too. The hardox is great protection against the awful galling you get when a little bit of grit stuck in the brake pad snowballs into a chunk of aluminium.
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So how does one measure the thickness of an old rim like that to know for sure?
I can't see the wear indicator in that picture.
I can't see the wear indicator in that picture.
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If you can't decide to like the look of it (I've always thought it looks pretty cool}, you could hit the brake tracks with an orbital sander or something and remove the anodising altogether.
Bare aluminium is significantly grippier than that old school hardox surface, particularly in the wet, but it'll wear significantly faster too. The hardox is great protection against the awful galling you get when a little bit of grit stuck in the brake pad snowballs into a chunk of aluminium.
Bare aluminium is significantly grippier than that old school hardox surface, particularly in the wet, but it'll wear significantly faster too. The hardox is great protection against the awful galling you get when a little bit of grit stuck in the brake pad snowballs into a chunk of aluminium.
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It's the black line running circumferentially at the middle of the brake track. When the rim around the line has worn away, there's usually less than a millimeter of metal remaining.
Another way to evaluate rim wear is to place a straight edge across the brake track in a "radial" orientation. A pronounced depression in the center of the track is suggestive of wear approaching the need for replacement.
If your rim produces a "thumping" sound or feeling when the brake is applied, it's time to get a new rim.
EDIT: See THIS.
Another way to evaluate rim wear is to place a straight edge across the brake track in a "radial" orientation. A pronounced depression in the center of the track is suggestive of wear approaching the need for replacement.
If your rim produces a "thumping" sound or feeling when the brake is applied, it's time to get a new rim.
EDIT: See THIS.
Last edited by sweeks; 09-22-20 at 06:43 PM.
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It's the black line running circumferentially at the middle of the brake track. When the rim around the line has worn away, there's usually less than a millimeter of metal remaining.
Another way to evaluate rim wear is to place a straight edge across the brake track in a "radial" orientation. A pronounced depression in the center of the track is suggestive of wear approaching the need for replacement.
If your rim produces a "thumping" sound or feeling when the brake is applied, it's time to get a new rim.
EDIT: See THIS.
Another way to evaluate rim wear is to place a straight edge across the brake track in a "radial" orientation. A pronounced depression in the center of the track is suggestive of wear approaching the need for replacement.
If your rim produces a "thumping" sound or feeling when the brake is applied, it's time to get a new rim.
EDIT: See THIS.
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The best way I've found to clean up a brake track is a Scotch-Brite pad (or generic equivalent).
Much easer to do with the tire off, so you can wrap the pad around the rim and clean both brake tracks simultaneously.
Much easer to do with the tire off, so you can wrap the pad around the rim and clean both brake tracks simultaneously.
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The rim wear indicator is a feature of the rim. It is not the result of wear. See THIS.
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I'd be hesitant to remove any material on these rims if I didn't absolutely need to. They started out only 0.8mm thick.
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I do use a sander on brake rotors when they get badly glazed, both bike and auto. But I always use a garnet sand paper meant for wood. No metal oxides to work into the metal that way.
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It's the black line running circumferentially at the middle of the brake track. When the rim around the line has worn away, there's usually less than a millimeter of metal remaining.
Another way to evaluate rim wear is to place a straight edge across the brake track in a "radial" orientation. A pronounced depression in the center of the track is suggestive of wear approaching the need for replacement.
If your rim produces a "thumping" sound or feeling when the brake is applied, it's time to get a new rim.
EDIT: See THIS.
Another way to evaluate rim wear is to place a straight edge across the brake track in a "radial" orientation. A pronounced depression in the center of the track is suggestive of wear approaching the need for replacement.
If your rim produces a "thumping" sound or feeling when the brake is applied, it's time to get a new rim.
EDIT: See THIS.
As for the "thumping" sound, I've had that happen on both bikes and automobiles when an uneven layer of pad material is deposited on the rotor/rim. This is why lots of people advocate "bedding" new brake pads, to get an even layer giving a braking surface with uniform grab.
I've fixed this on bike rims by cleaning the rim with a scotchbrite and some solvent. With car rotors the deposits are usually very visible. I've cleaned them with some success with a sander and garnet sand paper, but anymore now I have better luck replacing the rotor.
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No. That is not a wear indicator. As I've posted a few times wear indicators were not a thing when these rims were made. That groove, like all the others on this rim, is from wear, not manufactured. Stop posting incorrect information and do some research. Find a photo of a 280 or 330 rim with proof of a wear indicator. It's black because it has pad material in it. If it was a manufactured groove it would be thinner where the eyelets are and deeper between the spokes, following the rim wear. But...wait for it...it's the opposite. These rims are thin enough that they 'oil can' as they wear. That's to say they wear more where the eyelets are and slower between them. It's easily seen on many photos. Take a look at some photos and get back to me.
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No. That is not a wear indicator. As I've posted a few times wear indicators were not a thing when these rims were made. That groove, like all the others on this rim, is from wear, not manufactured. Stop posting incorrect information and do some research. Find a photo of a 280 or 330 rim with proof of a wear indicator.
It's black because it has pad material in it. If it was a manufactured groove it would be thinner where the eyelets are and deeper between the spokes, following the rim wear. But...wait for it...it's the opposite. These rims are thin enough that they 'oil can' as they wear. That's to say they wear more where the eyelets are and slower between them. It's easily seen on many photos. Take a look at some photos and get back to me.
To quote someone “this is not my first rodeo”,
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No, that line in not from “wear”. It is too uniform to be made by any wear mechanism. Something imbedded in the pad would make a groove that is varies more. Look at the wear mark on the rim right above the second arrow. It is small and of variable depth and width. The black groove is even and follows the rim arc exactly. Perhaps Tomm Williams is mistaken about the rim model. The one in the picture has a definite wear indicator groove in it.
The line is black because it was anodized. And why would it be thinner or deeper? The groove is machined into the rim and they don’t vary the depth or thickness. A uniform groove is much easier to machine than one that varies. The groove looks like the ones in this chart. And, if the groove were a wear groove it should vary in depth and width as you’ve described. A uniform groove won’t form from braking.
To quote someone “this is not my first rodeo”,
The line is black because it was anodized. And why would it be thinner or deeper? The groove is machined into the rim and they don’t vary the depth or thickness. A uniform groove is much easier to machine than one that varies. The groove looks like the ones in this chart. And, if the groove were a wear groove it should vary in depth and width as you’ve described. A uniform groove won’t form from braking.
To quote someone “this is not my first rodeo”,
ETA: You can't have a groove machined in these rims because Mavic hadn't even started machining the brake track yet. The rims were extruded, pin and glued and that was it. No welding, no machined brake track, no wear indicator.
Last edited by cxwrench; 09-23-20 at 10:10 AM.
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Have you looked at any photos of these rims? I'm telling you that these rims NEVER had a wear indicator groove. I've built many wheels with them. Find a groove in these rims...you'll find the exact same rim surface on the 330.
ETA: You can't have a groove machined in these rims because Mavic hadn't even started machining the brake track yet. The rims were extruded, pin and glued and that was it. No welding, no machined brake track, no wear indicator.
ETA: You can't have a groove machined in these rims because Mavic hadn't even started machining the brake track yet. The rims were extruded, pin and glued and that was it. No welding, no machined brake track, no wear indicator.
Additionally, the rims that Tomm Williams shows have clearly been milled. The transition from the spoke bed to the sidewall in the pictures you show are gentle curves while Tomm Williams’ rims have a very sharp transition that is typical of milled sidewalls.
The rims are obviously not the model of rim that Tomm Williams thinks they are.
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Last edited by cyccommute; 09-23-20 at 10:31 AM.
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Mavic GEL series from the 80s and 90s do not have wear indicators.
What's really shocking about the OP photos is that it doesn't appear super light double butted spokes were used.
They appear to be straight 14g or straight 15g.
Normally these would be built with something like 2.0/1.5/2.0 on the front and 2.0 / 1.65 / 2.0 on the rear.
Ugh!
=8-(
What's really shocking about the OP photos is that it doesn't appear super light double butted spokes were used.
They appear to be straight 14g or straight 15g.
Normally these would be built with something like 2.0/1.5/2.0 on the front and 2.0 / 1.65 / 2.0 on the rear.
Ugh!
=8-(
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Disclaimer:
1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:
Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
5000+ wheels built since 1984...
Disclaimer:
1. I do not claim to be an expert in bicycle mechanics despite my experience.
2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:
Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
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Oh, and you can measure rim thickness in various spots if it bothers you.
Last edited by easyupbug; 09-23-20 at 10:36 AM. Reason: another thought
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Attached is a pic of the braking surface on a set of Mavic GEL 280 36 spokes mounted on my vintage Wilier. Both front and back wheels show this characteristic where they seem slightly dished and it seems to take place consistently between the spokes. Can they be trued? Time to replace ?
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
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Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!