Raleigh Gran Sport Frame advice
09-06-20, 02:34 PM
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Raleigh Gran Sport Frame advice
I picked up this Gran Sport Frame-- It think it's a 1976 model. It needs a little help. Being a full 531 frame, it might be worth saving.
There's a dent in the down tube, and what appears to be surface rust under the paint. I figure this would be a good winter project, and I'm looking for some advice on how to approach this.
My plan is to work on the dent first, roll it out and fill with silver solder. I have a 1 1/8 tube block on order from Paragon Machine Works, and can make some wood blocks out of hard maple.
I did some reading about rolling out dents and watched a couple of videos-- but does anyone have any advice on how to attack this dent?
Start in the center and work to the each side?
The melting temp for Oatey plumber's silver solder is 415° to 455°F. Will that do any damage to 531 when filling what's left of the dent after rolling it out?
If the dent turns out well, then I'll try to work on the paint. I know the paint is going to get damaged rolling out the dent.
Would a bath in Oxalic acid remove that surface rust under the paint? I'm pretty sure it will clean up the inside of the frame.
Are there other methods for dealing with surface rust?
Do you think this paint too far gone at this point, and with the damage rolling out the dent is going to cause-- Would it be better to just strip and repaint?
Thanks
There's a dent in the down tube, and what appears to be surface rust under the paint. I figure this would be a good winter project, and I'm looking for some advice on how to approach this.
My plan is to work on the dent first, roll it out and fill with silver solder. I have a 1 1/8 tube block on order from Paragon Machine Works, and can make some wood blocks out of hard maple.
I did some reading about rolling out dents and watched a couple of videos-- but does anyone have any advice on how to attack this dent?
Start in the center and work to the each side?
The melting temp for Oatey plumber's silver solder is 415° to 455°F. Will that do any damage to 531 when filling what's left of the dent after rolling it out?
If the dent turns out well, then I'll try to work on the paint. I know the paint is going to get damaged rolling out the dent.
Would a bath in Oxalic acid remove that surface rust under the paint? I'm pretty sure it will clean up the inside of the frame.
Are there other methods for dealing with surface rust?
Do you think this paint too far gone at this point, and with the damage rolling out the dent is going to cause-- Would it be better to just strip and repaint?
Thanks
09-06-20, 02:46 PM
#2
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The good news is the down tube is not one of the high stress places. The sharp line on the dent is the place to watch out for. I do believe you attack from the outside and move towards the dent while moving the frame around.
Repaint call would be after a bath IMO.
Following this one!
Repaint call would be after a bath IMO.
Following this one!
09-06-20, 04:03 PM
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OP I think you need to shine the gugie signal....
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09-06-20, 04:48 PM
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OP I think you need to shine the gugie signal....
Grease up the blocks, clamp lightly, roll back and forth, tighten the blocks a bit, repeat until it's about as good as it can get. Instead of silver, consider JB weld, but silver solder will do fine as well.
Maybe consider painting a white panel there? Lot easier to match than Lagoon Blue. If you want to keep it original looking, take the frame down to an auto paint store and ask for an exact match. A "paint chip match" will cost under $20, last time I asked for an exact math it was about $75? You'll have a lifetime spray can for repairs. Feature it in, polish it out, and it should look like the the rest of the frame. The paint on that bike looks pretty nice, the rust spots can be removed without damaging the paint, and a good coat of wax will protect it.
Gran(d) Sport(s) aren't high end frames, but they were the cheapest all 531 DB frame and fork that Raleigh offered. The color combo is classic. This'll be a fun build!
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09-06-20, 05:07 PM
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09-06-20, 05:24 PM
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Its Sunday Sir, I would have never dared disturb your slumber on a Saturday.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDsQYV9eD0E
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
09-06-20, 06:19 PM
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gugie 220, 221 whatever it takes has been in the family lexicon for years. Well played Sir 
09-12-20, 05:21 PM
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I rolled out the dent, which took more effort than I thought. A couple of hours of clamping /rolling and I think this is as good as it's going to get.
I put a straight edge on the tube and there is a low spot around the dent, less than 1/16 inch deep, but about 3/4 inch long on each side of the dent.
I think filling that low spot with silver solder is too big of a job, maybe too much heat on the frame -- gugie suggested J-B Weld so I'm going to use that.
I bought the original Cold Weld in the small tubes -- Never used it before. Looking forward to seeing how it works out.
I put a straight edge on the tube and there is a low spot around the dent, less than 1/16 inch deep, but about 3/4 inch long on each side of the dent.
I think filling that low spot with silver solder is too big of a job, maybe too much heat on the frame -- gugie suggested J-B Weld so I'm going to use that.
I bought the original Cold Weld in the small tubes -- Never used it before. Looking forward to seeing how it works out.
Last edited by rickrob; 09-12-20 at 05:26 PM. Reason: typo
09-12-20, 06:59 PM
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I’ve filled dents that size with similar products (some sort of two-part epoxy). It filled fine, but the challenging part was sanding it down so that the edges weren’t prominent. Sometimes you can’t tell how it turned out until you spray a coat of primer on it, and then back to sanding with increasingly finer grit. Kinda tedious.
09-12-20, 07:24 PM
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@gugie, any chance that could be pulled out with a stud welder and a slide hammer, and rolled out afterwards? Or would the localized heat cause a potential future crack?
I realize it's not going to react like automotive sheet metal, but I thought I'd ask.
-Kurt
I realize it's not going to react like automotive sheet metal, but I thought I'd ask.
-Kurt
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09-12-20, 07:59 PM
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@gugie, any chance that could be pulled out with a stud welder and a slide hammer, and rolled out afterwards? Or would the localized heat cause a potential future crack?
I realize it's not going to react like automotive sheet metal, but I thought I'd ask.
-Kurt
I realize it's not going to react like automotive sheet metal, but I thought I'd ask.
-Kurt
Rolling it as far as you can and filling with JB weld works for me.
When sanding, try to sand with a flexible sanding block in an axis diagonal to the tube axis. This helps keep you from creating flat spots.
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09-13-20, 11:41 AM
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Good job! Yeah, that was a deep dent. What you're accomplishing by rolling it out is less a removal of the dent, more of a getting the tube back to round. Fill it and you're good to go.
see below...
I use a fine file (Epoxy is a lot softer than steel) and get it down close, then wrap the file in 80 grit garnet for the final smoothing. Overfill the dent, some epoxy going past the dent is fine, even preferable. As @nlerner pointed out, you may not see any imperfections until you shoot some primer on it. Spray some primer in the area and any imperfections will pop out. If you're not happy with it, sand down the primer, add a second coat of epoxy, rinse and repeat. It's kinda like mudding dry wall.
BTW, the reason I use JB Weld vs just any old epoxy is that it'll hold up to powder coat baking temperature, although I do know of one powder coater who recommends against it, since he's had some bubbling up in repaired areas. I've never had that issue, but he has a lot more experience powder coating frames than I do. If you're doing wet paint (professional or rattle can), this shouldn't be an issue.
@gugie, any chance that could be pulled out with a stud welder and a slide hammer, and rolled out afterwards? Or would the localized heat cause a potential future crack?
-Kurt
-Kurt
I personally wouldn't use a Fitz-A-Dent on a bike frame. You'll never get it perfect, and it does heat the metal to red-hot in a small spot.
Rolling it as far as you can and filling with JB weld works for me.
When sanding, try to sand with a flexible sanding block in an axis diagonal to the tube axis. This helps keep you from creating flat spots.
Rolling it as far as you can and filling with JB weld works for me.
When sanding, try to sand with a flexible sanding block in an axis diagonal to the tube axis. This helps keep you from creating flat spots.
I use a fine file (Epoxy is a lot softer than steel) and get it down close, then wrap the file in 80 grit garnet for the final smoothing. Overfill the dent, some epoxy going past the dent is fine, even preferable. As @nlerner pointed out, you may not see any imperfections until you shoot some primer on it. Spray some primer in the area and any imperfections will pop out. If you're not happy with it, sand down the primer, add a second coat of epoxy, rinse and repeat. It's kinda like mudding dry wall.
BTW, the reason I use JB Weld vs just any old epoxy is that it'll hold up to powder coat baking temperature, although I do know of one powder coater who recommends against it, since he's had some bubbling up in repaired areas. I've never had that issue, but he has a lot more experience powder coating frames than I do. If you're doing wet paint (professional or rattle can), this shouldn't be an issue.
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
Last edited by gugie; 09-13-20 at 11:54 AM.
09-13-20, 12:03 PM
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If that's what you've got, use it. If you're going to buy some, I think the smallest kit of Bondo is about $10? JB Weld kits can be had for $5.
As noted earlier, JB Weld can stand up to powder coat temperatures, and has a spec of 500 degrees F. I haven't been able to find a spec for Bondo. Since most of my frame jobs end up getting powder coated, I just stock that. If you were going to wet spray a frame and already have Bondo, I'd say use your Bondo.
As noted earlier, JB Weld can stand up to powder coat temperatures, and has a spec of 500 degrees F. I haven't been able to find a spec for Bondo. Since most of my frame jobs end up getting powder coated, I just stock that. If you were going to wet spray a frame and already have Bondo, I'd say use your Bondo.
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
09-13-20, 12:40 PM
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If that's what you've got, use it. If you're going to buy some, I think the smallest kit of Bondo is about $10? JB Weld kits can be had for $5.
As noted earlier, JB Weld can stand up to powder coat temperatures, and has a spec of 500 degrees F. I haven't been able to find a spec for Bondo. Since most of my frame jobs end up getting powder coated, I just stock that. If you were going to wet spray a frame and already have Bondo, I'd say use your Bondo.
As noted earlier, JB Weld can stand up to powder coat temperatures, and has a spec of 500 degrees F. I haven't been able to find a spec for Bondo. Since most of my frame jobs end up getting powder coated, I just stock that. If you were going to wet spray a frame and already have Bondo, I'd say use your Bondo.
Great point about powder coating heat. I found this: "It is not recommended to powder coat over Bondo or similar type putty products. Powder Coating over Bondo will cause outgassing to occur, this will create irregularities in the finish. Generally, any metal fabrication that has Bondo on it could be rejected by your custom coater. If a filler is needed and there are no other options, then we recommend a high temp filler such as Alvin’s Lab Metal. " ( Maui Powderworks blog )
09-25-20, 11:18 AM
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The dent filled in well with J-B Weld. Overfilled, then sanded out. Skimmed over it again and sanded smooth.
But I got carried away with the sanding around the filler.
Seriously, after a bath in weak Oxalic Acid ( 1 Tbs per gallon) the paint peeled off the chrome on the fork. Looks like they just painted over the chrome with no primer.
I just stripped it to bare metal at that point. Turned out to be a good thing, as the OA did clean up the surface rust, but there was still a lot of pitting / rust under the paint in those areas.
The frame was also 4mm out of alignment, so I straightened it out and cold set it to 126mm.
So now I have a blank canvas. i treated the frame with Frame Saver and cleaned it up. I'll sand it to 320, clean it up again and start with a self-etching primer.
I'm thinking just Rustoleum Stops Rust enamel in White with Lagoon Blue panels and giving the paint plenty of time to harden up.
I've used the 2K clear before, but I think I'm done with that. It's nasty stuff. I'll probably clear it with Rustoleum clear.
But I got carried away with the sanding around the filler.
Seriously, after a bath in weak Oxalic Acid ( 1 Tbs per gallon) the paint peeled off the chrome on the fork. Looks like they just painted over the chrome with no primer.
I just stripped it to bare metal at that point. Turned out to be a good thing, as the OA did clean up the surface rust, but there was still a lot of pitting / rust under the paint in those areas.
The frame was also 4mm out of alignment, so I straightened it out and cold set it to 126mm.
So now I have a blank canvas. i treated the frame with Frame Saver and cleaned it up. I'll sand it to 320, clean it up again and start with a self-etching primer.
I'm thinking just Rustoleum Stops Rust enamel in White with Lagoon Blue panels and giving the paint plenty of time to harden up.
I've used the 2K clear before, but I think I'm done with that. It's nasty stuff. I'll probably clear it with Rustoleum clear.
Last edited by rickrob; 09-25-20 at 11:31 AM. Reason: typo
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10-26-20, 04:33 PM
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This is how the frame turned out after painting. It's all Rustoleum-- Self Etching primer, Gloss Pure White and Lagoon. It's been sitting for a month and still has a very faint smell of paint. The paint seems reasonably hard at this point, but I plan on letting this sit a while longer until there's no smell. I have Rustoleum clear enamel (It's Acrylic, I don't know why they call it Enamel)
I ordered some decals from VeloCals. I'm not sure if I should spray one coat of clear, then decals, then clear, or just apply decals and two coats of clear. Anyway, it doesn't look too bad for a spray bomb job. The white is killing the camera in my phone, so the pic is washed out a bit.
I ordered some decals from VeloCals. I'm not sure if I should spray one coat of clear, then decals, then clear, or just apply decals and two coats of clear. Anyway, it doesn't look too bad for a spray bomb job. The white is killing the camera in my phone, so the pic is washed out a bit.
