linberl

Ahh, that's from that folding bike review site, not very credible. They generally don't seem to know what they are talking about. If, by speed system, they mean drivetrain, that bike has a fine drivetrain.

marfar

The Dahon Mariner D8 seems to have really solid reviews for only $600. I wonder if it's just a good place for us to start? I like the idea of Dahon MU LX 10 being so light, but is it worth the extra $1400 for us? We don't know enough about quality parts and how much that factors in. We are prepared to spend more if it's something that we need.

Our biggest concerns are being safe, managing the road conditions, keeping up with the mileage (40 average per day), and being able to bring it into Airbnb rentals folded and in the bag (to respect the homes we're in). We will need to fold and unfold quite a bit, so this does lean us towards the Brompton, but I think we're safer with the 20" tires?

tcs

The hinge pin is replaced by a removable one. Most Dahon-pattern folding bikes with 20" wheels can be airline packed, but this modification allows the bike to be packed with much less disassembly.

https://nomadic.net/blog/nomadic-life?start=5

There aren't too many bikes that will drop into an airline 'legal' suitcase without any disassembly at all.

linberl

Any dahon will be safe. 20" tires will be fine on your road conditions. As to keeping up with the mileage - how many gears and what range of gearing you need will depend on where you will ride (climbs) and your conditioning. Dahons with the hinge in the frame fold pretty easily (but the Mu's fold easiest of all). What you get for the difference in money between those two dahons is the quality of the components (durability, efficiency, and weight) and some improvements in the frame. The D8 comes with some fairly low-end stuff, low end Shimano cassette and low-end tires, for example. It's 27 lbs. No one can decide for you, obviously, so you need to try to imagine what's important to use and how you will use it. Will lifting an extra 5 lbs matter, will you be willing and able to adjust gears/brakes that go out of alignment more often? Cheaper bikes require more maintenance typically and hold adjustments poorly compared to quality components. It sounds like Dahon or Brompton are your considerations, so I would suggest calling Thor directly (just pull up his website for the #). The man knows more about Dahon than 99% of the folks on the planet - he won't steer you wrong once you describe your needs. He used to be on this forum. Then go ride the Brompton again and see if it is comfortable for you and the weight is okay.

tcs

Sounds like the slack needs to be adjusted, but in any event, one could fit a Trolley or Rapid Transit rack and roll folded to their heart's content.

tcs

My wife on a 40 + 35-mile weekend tour a few weeks ago, riding her eleven-year-old Dahon Mu D8:

linberl

That comment was from another thread here on bikeforums; I have no idea if it was an adjustment issue or the nature of folding with internal cables. Adding a trolley or rt rack would just add more weight. No reason to get something that doesn't work right from the start. Do you have a bike with internal cabling? Does folding tighten and impede rolling?

linberl

My Mu. I love the Mu!!!! Never thought I would enjoy a single speed but the Mu is a pleasure to ride and to fold. The Mu really changed my opinion of Dahon bikes (before I was only familiar with the Boardwalk). Reach is still a bit too far for me, but for shorter rides it is tolerable. I grab my pakiT for the long stuff.

Lalato

I concur with others. Call Bike Friday. Explain that you're going on a trip in July and what your needs are. They will take care of you.

The only downside to the Bike Friday is that it doesn't fold as compactly as some other folding bikes. Packing it in a suitcase requires some disassembly. However, you'll get an arguably better ride (most people agree that the ride quality is awesome, but that is subjective so I'll hedge here and say "arguably").

2_i 

When I was in such a situation, I told them and they built my BF in a matter of days. It arrived 2 days before my departure.

tcs

Interestingly enough, the Visc D18 you linked to as a 'buy instead' has external cables. Are you perhaps parsing a nonexistent issue?

mirfi

Love my Downtube

linberl

This is the one you posted, am I incorrect in that the cables are internal? I did recently have cataract surgery so that's entirely possible, my vision is still messed up, lol.
Dahon Visc D18- Suitcase packable bike with Suitcase - Appletini - Green -kit with - Origami Traveler Case (blue with yellow) I hadn't yet looked at the one on Thor's
website, and actually didn't notice the cabling one way or the other, just looked at his price. In any case, I have never had a bike with internal cables and I was curious
if this was a common phenomenon and you could confirm it, or if perhaps the poster who had the issue had his bike set up improperly.

tds101 

My Dahon Speed D8 has internal routed cables, and it's definitely a negative. Bending them causes shifting/braking problems. The external routed Visc D18 is the better bike IMO.

Ultralight

This won't work for you because there is a long wait, and the cost is a bit beyond your $2K limit. However, the Helix, when it opens for ordering later this summer, will ride beautifully and fold just lightly larger than a Brompton. All titanium fame and seat post. 24" wheel so it rides close to a regular bike.

ttakata73

Yep, seems the Helix might be worth the extra wait and money. Brompton small tires might have you endowed off roading, Birdy might break in a few years, and BF seems impractical to fold several times a day.

berlinonaut

In general within Central European countries you won't have an issue with roads or terrain that would be unridable with 16" tires. There might (!) be a couple of miles that are uncomfortable in between in the worst case but that's about how far it goes. Obviously you can go for a more rough experience terrainwise but you don't need to. Bromptons i.e. are obviously fine on tarmac, fine on fine gravel roads, ok on unpaved roads, tolerable for a while on unpaved small paths, bad on cobblestones or rough gravel roads, very bad in muddy or sandy terrain, very bad in rough paths full of roots, impossible off road. As far as I can judge for your trip they would technically be ok and there will always be a route that they can work with. Which does not help if you don't like them. And obviously a lot of the 20" bikes have less of a limitation in terms of terrain - the question is just how relevant this really is in practice for your trip.
The other thing, if you are flying in and touring with the bikes is what you do with the packaging. Dealing with a 62" suitcase is nothing what you want to do all the time. Neither on a campground nor in public transport nor carrying it up the stairs to the forth floor in an air b'n'b. So possibly a kind of soft bag would be better as you can transport it on the bike and it does not go into your way - air b'n'b space is very limited sometimes. Imagine having two 62" cases along with two 20" bikes that have to be disassembled to fit into them (which for an overnight stay clearly makes no sense) together with you in a tiny room. Does not sound like holidays to me.
When using public transport you are good with any folding bike as long as you use trains. It is however much easier with a Brompton-sized bike to find a storage space within trains and even more if those trains are packed with people. When using public busses spontanously during your trip (heavy rain, lack of power or such) you'll have no issues with a Brompton but possibly with a bike with bigger folding size. I you go to a theater or museum you can simply leave your Brompton at the cloakroom - if this is possible with a bigger and more exposed folder is the question. Possibly depends from how friendly the staff is. Taking a folder other than a Brompton with you into a restaurant is basically impossible. Two 20" folders in the trunk of a cab - might work or not, depending on what the driver is willing to accept and what car he drives. And so on and so on.

So it really depends on what you are planning to do and it might be important if you leave from the same airport that you are flying in and can leave your suitcase there somewhere. Stuff like that. People from the US should be aware that a lot of things are smaller in Europe than in the US including cars, houses and rooms.

Regarding Brussels: I've never been there but from what I've read it is pretty cycle-unfriendly and car-centric.

PS: When thinking about a Brompton the six-speed with lowered gearing and a rack would possibly the bike to go for. Handlebars as you like, front bag of your choice, telescopic seat post if the shorter one is not sufficient (the long one may get in the way when packing up for airline travel). Personally I'd go with dynamo lights but this is a matter of taste. A vincita bag or the Brompton travel bag for packing up and you are ready to go. Take a spare tube with you and think about getting the Brompton toolkit. Just in case. This is another advantage: As the Brompton is not only a bike but an ecosystem there is no headscratching in terms of accessories which may fit or not which one may find limiting or easying things up, depending from your point of view.

linberl

Bike Friday people travel with their bikes all the time and, having read tons of their trip reviews, it seems most of them are easily able to make arrangements to leave their suitcases at the hotel if they use the same one on arrival and departure. Worth talking to them about it. Some of the BF travelers have also mentioned companies that pick up your suitcase and move it for you to other destinations. Even if you don't get a BF for your trip, I highly recommend spending a little time "googling" traveling with a Bike Friday. Lots of great tips on how to travel with a folding bike in the articles (that's what BF was invented to do). Yeah, the Helix would have been ideal for the OP but no way for this trip plus it's nice to have a bit of a track record on a bike you are traveling with and the Helix is too new for that. I don't think OP will go wrong with either a BF (calling them to see about fast delivery) or a Dahon (but not a lower end model) or a Brompton (if they decide they can fit it well). However, not all of those will work well to replace their hybrid.

berlinonaut

To give an impression of folded sizes and space needs in public transport with luggage and traveling with folders:

1. Bike Friday Pocket Llama with BF trailer kit - not the smallest bike on earth







2. Bernds folder with luggage and a trailer carrying a Kayak, packed up for train travel and in the subway - big fold but still kind of ok, especially when packed up fully. However in combination with the massive trailer a bet if it is ok to take it on a train.










3. Brompton in various travel-situations with smaller and bigger luggage including carrying a Brompton hard case and taking it with me into a sleeper on a night train









to be continued...

berlinonaut

...continued

















tremendous amounts of space in an Austrian train:




The Brompton needs much less space which often comes in very handy when traveling. And it fits in ordinary luggage compartments in German trains (as well as in between seats). With all other folders it is often a bit of an issue to find the necessary space as soon as you are not on a local train. And if the train is overcroweded like that you do not make friends when carrying a bigger folder with you:

linberl

There's no doubt the Brompton is the smallest, lol. But the trade off for the OP are the smaller wheels and the fact that it's not going to be a good substitute for their hybrids when they aren't traveling. It's just a matter of their priorities, and how often they will travel or use the bike multi-modal versus using it on varied terrain at home. And, of course, whether they are
able to comfortably adjust the fit (which they mentioned being a concern). It will be interesting to hear what they decided!

People do all kinds of things - here's a guy who toured Europe on the BF pakiT!!! If you aren't carrying a lot, it obviously can be done. https://www.bikefriday.com/folding-bikes/newton-pakit

berlinonaut

I cannot judge for the OP and neither do I want to, all I can do is to deliver information. It's his job to judge what fit's best to his needs. ATM we do not even know if we are talking about self-supported touring througout Europe including camping gear or about hopping from city to city via public transport and only/mainly doing round trips from the location with minimal luggage. And we do not know if public transport is involed at all. One thins is for sure: The Mu uno is possibly not the bike of choice....

marfar

Yea, there is def reason to reconsider the Brompton, but I think we are pulling away from it. Today, as I was riding after work, I had to ride through a large field (grass) to get to a baseball game, and I thought about the Brompton as I rode through on my Trek. I suppose I would have had to dismount and walk the Brompton. Not sure I'll be biking through any fields, but also not sure I won't. The Brompton seems tough to walk away from, but it's likely that we will find ourselves on some non-smooth terrain, especially since we camp quite a bit too.

We took the advice a lot of you have been giving about calling Thor. The gentleman was really helpful. He suggested the following options for our needs:

1. Tern Verge D9
2. Tern Verge P10
3. Dahon MU D10

Anyone have any thoughts on these?

The Verges have 22" tires, so we're back to worrying about folding issues. We will be folding quite a bit.

Also, side track question. Can we just put these in a cardboard box for the plane (bubble wrapped) and tell them we are shipping bike parts? We are def planning to check them.

Thank you again to everyone on here!

marfar

berlinaut,

I so appreciate your pics and your input - ty!

For the trip, we will mostly be riding, but if we hit bad weather, we will def use a bus or train to get to our next destination. We are not planning to camp, but might change our minds once we get comfortable. So, to begin the journey, we are all Airbnb and hotels. We will only have a backpack to carry, one that we can keep on our backs or strap to the bike. This was a HUGE draw towards the Brompton - that bag set-up on the front is wonderful, and it makes it hard for me to walk away.

Mostly we are concerned about changing terrain (which make the Brompton move down on the list) and the ease of folding, and of course safety. I'm sure it's obvious at this point that we don't know much about bikes (or their moving parts), so we need to have a quality item that won't (hopefully) break or have issues (Brompton moves up on the list here).

We should have started this research months ago!

linberl

No one suggested a Mu Uno for the OP; dangers of not reading an entire thread, lol.