We're going to yell at you.
07-15-19, 03:14 PM
#2826
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thanks for this post...sounds a lot like one of my local weekend rides where there are a lot of mostly fast Masters racers/riders. There are some former Pro and a mix of Cat 1-5s. Most of these people I see at the 35+ Masters races. So already, you know there are going to be 50% of the group that isn't going to want, or be able to do pulls at 30mph. Even with a stop sign and a few corners where we slow, it is 26+mph avg for 25-30 miles. People are red lined on this ride all the time. Then, when people pull off or refuse to pull through the pace line and move over to the left side people coming back off the front due to the crazy pace, or won't pull through and just want to sit on the wheels in front...which is like 75% of the group BTW, here comes the usual 4-5 people yelling at them about sucking wheels, not taking pulls etc. Or, they just like to target some people for jumping roundabouts, when 4-5 people do all the time. But one is their buddy wearing the same club kit...but choose to yell something dumb to the person they don't know about being dangerous jumping the roundabout...when it is done safely, piece of cake, it is nothing and done very safely and you avoid the bad bike handling around the curve...hence why I do it.
When you have some guys like a former State RR and TT champions, or US Pro rider in the group that can simply ride from the back of the 40-50 person group, and go to the front and hammer along at 30-32mph for seemingly miles, then string everybody out redlining people...you should expect that a big portion of the group is never going to pull, if they do, it isn't going to be pretty and of course, things start to get messy, unorganized...and then yelling commences. For us, it is like 4-5 people that seemingly are always starting nonsense with some people. This includes a woman or two. I thought woman were supposed to be the more sensible of the sexes? Guess not..Type A personalities with them I guess as well.
I can go on and on about this one local ride...if it wasn't such good training, I would be out of there. But it really is getting to the point, and maybe their entire end-game of these people, to get rid of people they don't like on this ride for whatever reason...including not pulling through at times, which of course those same people sit in and don't pull themselves plenty of times when it gets going bananas on the ride.
It is a combination of the fast pace, people not pulling through, and the worst part of that, the attitude of some people that really make it a not very fun ride anymore.
So many people, estimate 15%, no longer show up to this ride because of the nonsense/dangerous crap that is going on at time, like running this one stop sign always....then the stop sign runners like to jump/take off and use it as some attack point and the rest is chasing for 2 miles to bring it back together. Dangerous, childish etc...it is a training ride. Go down the road 3 miles to another group ride, not racers mostly, but still a good training ride/speed/tempo, the ride and people are a complete 180 degree...friendly, chatting, making conversation even if strangers/new to the group. But this Master/high-level big portion racer group...what a difference in people/attitudes with some of them.
I know, I'm the problem and I'm going to get yelled at.
When you have some guys like a former State RR and TT champions, or US Pro rider in the group that can simply ride from the back of the 40-50 person group, and go to the front and hammer along at 30-32mph for seemingly miles, then string everybody out redlining people...you should expect that a big portion of the group is never going to pull, if they do, it isn't going to be pretty and of course, things start to get messy, unorganized...and then yelling commences. For us, it is like 4-5 people that seemingly are always starting nonsense with some people. This includes a woman or two. I thought woman were supposed to be the more sensible of the sexes? Guess not..Type A personalities with them I guess as well.
I can go on and on about this one local ride...if it wasn't such good training, I would be out of there. But it really is getting to the point, and maybe their entire end-game of these people, to get rid of people they don't like on this ride for whatever reason...including not pulling through at times, which of course those same people sit in and don't pull themselves plenty of times when it gets going bananas on the ride.
It is a combination of the fast pace, people not pulling through, and the worst part of that, the attitude of some people that really make it a not very fun ride anymore.
So many people, estimate 15%, no longer show up to this ride because of the nonsense/dangerous crap that is going on at time, like running this one stop sign always....then the stop sign runners like to jump/take off and use it as some attack point and the rest is chasing for 2 miles to bring it back together. Dangerous, childish etc...it is a training ride. Go down the road 3 miles to another group ride, not racers mostly, but still a good training ride/speed/tempo, the ride and people are a complete 180 degree...friendly, chatting, making conversation even if strangers/new to the group. But this Master/high-level big portion racer group...what a difference in people/attitudes with some of them.
I know, I'm the problem and I'm going to get yelled at.
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07-15-19, 03:42 PM
#2827
6-4 Titanium
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Ya had some crazy 15mph group rides we had pros join up one time pulling gigawatts at 17mph so naturally guys would redline wouldn’t help pull so ya lots of yelling
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09-13-19, 11:47 AM
#2830
Newbie racer
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Wow, I've missed some good stuff in here.
I think when some super fast rides get too big, but don't have some kind of "Darwin hill".........there's problems. And Darwin hill shouldn't catch a "sprinter" type out. Just folks who don't really belong.
A perfect example of this was the Assault on Mt. Mitchell in the first hour to 90 minutes. Freaking couple hundred people in the front group flying along at like 30mph average and not having to do any more than like 120w. All sorts of stupid going on in there. There was a dude off into a field at some point, he was SUPER lucky there wasn't a cow wire fence there. There would have been a disaster.
The Darwin hill doesn't come until "Bill's Hill" some hours into the ride.
Our weekly ride is kind of crap for this conversation. It's mostly a segment hunting playtime. The city breaks up the route too much to be similar to these rides you speak of.
People burn a match on one segment, but not other stuff. Some people will pull a long time, some not. One or two still try to "win the ride" doing dumb stuff.
If I want the ride to really hurt, I do some kind of workout at lunch that has a good amount of intensity to it. Like some 3x3's or 3x10's. This more than makes up for this not being the "fastest" ride in town. However, I've done much faster rides but always have more NP on this one.
Then again, this ride started out with the A's doing 23mi at around 18.5mph avg on about 60 feet per mile elevation two years ago. Now, we're at 20.5mph some nights. This is with about 30 turns in the route and about a dozen stop signs or stop lights to slow us.
I've done the route alone at 21mph, but that's because it was 6:30AM on a Sunday morning and I could just blow through everything. It's THAT slow a route during the evening with traffic and stops.
We're not on your level of "350w pulls" whatsoever. Lol. On the in-town ride I'll usually accumulate 10+ minutes of power at 350+ watts. Chump change for y'all, but plenty for me.
I'm kind of over worrying about what other people are doing. I just want a workout, to see some fellow riders, and share a beer afterwards. Oh, and get back to my car ALIVE.
I think when some super fast rides get too big, but don't have some kind of "Darwin hill".........there's problems. And Darwin hill shouldn't catch a "sprinter" type out. Just folks who don't really belong.
A perfect example of this was the Assault on Mt. Mitchell in the first hour to 90 minutes. Freaking couple hundred people in the front group flying along at like 30mph average and not having to do any more than like 120w. All sorts of stupid going on in there. There was a dude off into a field at some point, he was SUPER lucky there wasn't a cow wire fence there. There would have been a disaster.
The Darwin hill doesn't come until "Bill's Hill" some hours into the ride.
Our weekly ride is kind of crap for this conversation. It's mostly a segment hunting playtime. The city breaks up the route too much to be similar to these rides you speak of.
People burn a match on one segment, but not other stuff. Some people will pull a long time, some not. One or two still try to "win the ride" doing dumb stuff.
If I want the ride to really hurt, I do some kind of workout at lunch that has a good amount of intensity to it. Like some 3x3's or 3x10's. This more than makes up for this not being the "fastest" ride in town. However, I've done much faster rides but always have more NP on this one.
Then again, this ride started out with the A's doing 23mi at around 18.5mph avg on about 60 feet per mile elevation two years ago. Now, we're at 20.5mph some nights. This is with about 30 turns in the route and about a dozen stop signs or stop lights to slow us.
I've done the route alone at 21mph, but that's because it was 6:30AM on a Sunday morning and I could just blow through everything. It's THAT slow a route during the evening with traffic and stops.
We're not on your level of "350w pulls" whatsoever. Lol. On the in-town ride I'll usually accumulate 10+ minutes of power at 350+ watts. Chump change for y'all, but plenty for me.
I'm kind of over worrying about what other people are doing. I just want a workout, to see some fellow riders, and share a beer afterwards. Oh, and get back to my car ALIVE.
09-13-19, 02:08 PM
#2831
So it is
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Wow, I've missed some good stuff in here.
I think when some super fast rides get too big, but don't have some kind of "Darwin hill".........there's problems. And Darwin hill shouldn't catch a "sprinter" type out. Just folks who don't really belong.
A perfect example of this was the Assault on Mt. Mitchell in the first hour to 90 minutes. Freaking couple hundred people in the front group flying along at like 30mph average and not having to do any more than like 120w. All sorts of stupid going on in there. There was a dude off into a field at some point, he was SUPER lucky there wasn't a cow wire fence there. There would have been a disaster.
The Darwin hill doesn't come until "Bill's Hill" some hours into the ride.
Our weekly ride is kind of crap for this conversation. It's mostly a segment hunting playtime. The city breaks up the route too much to be similar to these rides you speak of.
People burn a match on one segment, but not other stuff. Some people will pull a long time, some not. One or two still try to "win the ride" doing dumb stuff.
If I want the ride to really hurt, I do some kind of workout at lunch that has a good amount of intensity to it. Like some 3x3's or 3x10's. This more than makes up for this not being the "fastest" ride in town. However, I've done much faster rides but always have more NP on this one.
Then again, this ride started out with the A's doing 23mi at around 18.5mph avg on about 60 feet per mile elevation two years ago. Now, we're at 20.5mph some nights. This is with about 30 turns in the route and about a dozen stop signs or stop lights to slow us.
I've done the route alone at 21mph, but that's because it was 6:30AM on a Sunday morning and I could just blow through everything. It's THAT slow a route during the evening with traffic and stops.
We're not on your level of "350w pulls" whatsoever. Lol. On the in-town ride I'll usually accumulate 10+ minutes of power at 350+ watts. Chump change for y'all, but plenty for me.
I'm kind of over worrying about what other people are doing. I just want a workout, to see some fellow riders, and share a beer afterwards. Oh, and get back to my car ALIVE.
I think when some super fast rides get too big, but don't have some kind of "Darwin hill".........there's problems. And Darwin hill shouldn't catch a "sprinter" type out. Just folks who don't really belong.
A perfect example of this was the Assault on Mt. Mitchell in the first hour to 90 minutes. Freaking couple hundred people in the front group flying along at like 30mph average and not having to do any more than like 120w. All sorts of stupid going on in there. There was a dude off into a field at some point, he was SUPER lucky there wasn't a cow wire fence there. There would have been a disaster.
The Darwin hill doesn't come until "Bill's Hill" some hours into the ride.
Our weekly ride is kind of crap for this conversation. It's mostly a segment hunting playtime. The city breaks up the route too much to be similar to these rides you speak of.
People burn a match on one segment, but not other stuff. Some people will pull a long time, some not. One or two still try to "win the ride" doing dumb stuff.
If I want the ride to really hurt, I do some kind of workout at lunch that has a good amount of intensity to it. Like some 3x3's or 3x10's. This more than makes up for this not being the "fastest" ride in town. However, I've done much faster rides but always have more NP on this one.
Then again, this ride started out with the A's doing 23mi at around 18.5mph avg on about 60 feet per mile elevation two years ago. Now, we're at 20.5mph some nights. This is with about 30 turns in the route and about a dozen stop signs or stop lights to slow us.
I've done the route alone at 21mph, but that's because it was 6:30AM on a Sunday morning and I could just blow through everything. It's THAT slow a route during the evening with traffic and stops.
We're not on your level of "350w pulls" whatsoever. Lol. On the in-town ride I'll usually accumulate 10+ minutes of power at 350+ watts. Chump change for y'all, but plenty for me.
I'm kind of over worrying about what other people are doing. I just want a workout, to see some fellow riders, and share a beer afterwards. Oh, and get back to my car ALIVE.
09-16-19, 07:30 PM
#2834
well hello there
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A new guy just joined our small local neighborhood group. He's strong but he's been riding less than a year.
He was swerving all over the place and couldn't hold his line.
I refrained from saying anything (or yelling at him).
He was swerving all over the place and couldn't hold his line.
I refrained from saying anything (or yelling at him).
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Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
09-17-19, 07:52 AM
#2835
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If you're not going to yell at him you should take him aside and talk to him about keeping a line. Some guys have a lot of trouble with this even after having it explained to them.
09-17-19, 08:18 AM
#2836
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I'm that guy (well, without the swerving, I can hold a line lol), but I've only been riding about a year, ultra running background so I brought a strong engine to the bike game and had no problems jumping right into the A group rides. But I told the group to please let me know if I was doing anything wrong/stupid/unsafe, because you don't know what you don't know. They've been great about giving me pointers without being ******bags, but I've also done my part to pay attention to what the group and other riders are doing and trying to learn as quickly as I can.
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09-17-19, 12:47 PM
#2837
well hello there
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We've got a couple ex-racers in our group that like to take on that role. I just like to grumble.
__________________
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Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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09-17-19, 01:01 PM
#2838
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09-17-19, 02:28 PM
#2839
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05-28-20, 08:08 AM
#2840
Advocatus Diaboli
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Learn the art of soft-pedaling. Basically, you are coasting, but you keep turning the pedals over, just not fast enough to engage the pawls of the freewheel. It looks smoother, but more importantly it is smoother because you just have to increase the rotation a bit rather than starting from zero.
05-28-20, 08:35 AM
#2841
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The middle of the peloton is not the middle of a paceline. Beyond that, how often does someone with the physical gifts, dedication, and skill set to be riding in the TdF show up at your group rides? If it's not terribly often, we probably shouldn't be using them as a counter argument.
05-28-20, 09:22 AM
#2842
Advocatus Diaboli
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The middle of the peloton is not the middle of a paceline. Beyond that, how often does someone with the physical gifts, dedication, and skill set to be riding in the TdF show up at your group rides? If it's not terribly often, we probably shouldn't be using them as a counter argument.
06-13-20, 10:27 PM
#2843
Junior Member
Interesting post, took me a day and a half to read it all with breaks. Even more interesting to see/read people’s reactions and look within myself. Recreational road rider, mostly by myself, always amazed to watch the small training groups pass me by, the technical ability, the focus.
Reading the very first post ES wrote, I never took it down the path of anger or self-righteousness many seemed to go. Was it actual yelling in a frenzy of anger or loud voice as at that pace and concentration, a normal voice would not work. The jersey tug? I never saw that as a physical yank you off your bike as much as a tug/touch to instruct or push you away. Often many, including myself read written words too literally from our point of view, not thinking there are alternates.
I find it hard to understand also why people don’t think others can ride that pace. My total road time is minimal but even at 63 with a knee issue I often can maintain 19-20mph on public toads and not be pushing myself. No, not for miles yet, but give me time.
i learned a lot reading this, not just about group rides but more importantly how even as a solo rider I can ride better and not impede those behind me, nor get frustrated with those in front of me.
thank you Event Services.
Even I yelled at a group of Young guy riders taking up an 8’ mup trail as I came around the corner. First it was “on your left”, which freaked them out to where one hit his front brake to hard and his rear wheel lifted swung into one of his group as I passed him narrowly through the bunch grass loudly saying WTF.
Reading the very first post ES wrote, I never took it down the path of anger or self-righteousness many seemed to go. Was it actual yelling in a frenzy of anger or loud voice as at that pace and concentration, a normal voice would not work. The jersey tug? I never saw that as a physical yank you off your bike as much as a tug/touch to instruct or push you away. Often many, including myself read written words too literally from our point of view, not thinking there are alternates.
I find it hard to understand also why people don’t think others can ride that pace. My total road time is minimal but even at 63 with a knee issue I often can maintain 19-20mph on public toads and not be pushing myself. No, not for miles yet, but give me time.
i learned a lot reading this, not just about group rides but more importantly how even as a solo rider I can ride better and not impede those behind me, nor get frustrated with those in front of me.
thank you Event Services.
Even I yelled at a group of Young guy riders taking up an 8’ mup trail as I came around the corner. First it was “on your left”, which freaked them out to where one hit his front brake to hard and his rear wheel lifted swung into one of his group as I passed him narrowly through the bunch grass loudly saying WTF.
06-16-20, 06:51 AM
#2844
Full Member
Our Tuesday night ride is fast and furious, and strangely has no egos. It's all the fast guys in the metro-Detroit area. We rotate a double echelon at about 30mph. We sprint at pre-determined points. We regroup. We chit chat. Then we fire it up again. We have sprinters and lead-outs. But again, no egos.
And every week, we get new riders jumping into our line and trying to roll with us. That's fine. Go for it. But you should be prepared to meet a very steep learning curve.
Some fail to realize what we're doing, and when they make mistakes, we yell.
You will get yelled at for the following mistakes:
- If you're on the front, do NOT pull the line through the bumpiest section of pavement. GO AROUND IT! There is no need to trash our wheels and bodies.
- If you're on the front, don't ride on the very edge of the pavement. Give some room for the echelon behind you.
- If you're on the front, you MUST pedal down the hills. Do not coast.
- If the line is hammering and you want out, you must hammer until you are on the front - even if it kills you - and then pull off. Do not pull out of the middle of the line. That's dangerous, and it creates a gap that the rider behind you must cover. You will get yelled at.
- When it's your turn to pull through and take your turn on the front, DO NOT accelerate. That's bad.
- When it's your turn to pull off the front, flick your elbow and move smoothly to the side. Nothing abrupt.
Please do not call us elitist. And don't ask us to 'dumb down' our training ride.
And every week, we get new riders jumping into our line and trying to roll with us. That's fine. Go for it. But you should be prepared to meet a very steep learning curve.
Some fail to realize what we're doing, and when they make mistakes, we yell.
You will get yelled at for the following mistakes:
- If you're on the front, do NOT pull the line through the bumpiest section of pavement. GO AROUND IT! There is no need to trash our wheels and bodies.
- If you're on the front, don't ride on the very edge of the pavement. Give some room for the echelon behind you.
- If you're on the front, you MUST pedal down the hills. Do not coast.
- If the line is hammering and you want out, you must hammer until you are on the front - even if it kills you - and then pull off. Do not pull out of the middle of the line. That's dangerous, and it creates a gap that the rider behind you must cover. You will get yelled at.
- When it's your turn to pull through and take your turn on the front, DO NOT accelerate. That's bad.
- When it's your turn to pull off the front, flick your elbow and move smoothly to the side. Nothing abrupt.
Please do not call us elitist. And don't ask us to 'dumb down' our training ride.
our Rockland group those all that + the designed sprint portions of the ride
03-04-21, 12:48 PM
#2845
Senior Member
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It's been a year since I've been on a group ride. I miss the yelling.
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03-04-21, 01:21 PM
#2846
Trying to keep up
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Oh my. This thread started back when I was originally active on here. I was away for a decade and now it's back. I rejoined right around the time of P-Cad's death - purely coincidentally. This thread makes me miss him even though I never knew him in IRL.
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03-04-21, 01:38 PM
#2848
Senior Member
Every time I see this thread it reminds me of a certain Seinfeld episode.
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03-04-21, 02:39 PM
#2850
• —
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Anyone yells at me now, they better be downwind or I'll sue their ass. **** has gotten real.
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