BatKaio

Looking for advice on recently purchased new bike:

I have an 11 year old Cervelo Team Soloist (aluminum frame, SRAM Red components, Cosmic Carbon 50mm wheels, 17.5lb) It is a stiff, with shortbase and has a very responsive ride.

Several months ago I got a new TT Scott Plasma Team issue (What's with all Team bikes I am buying ) Sram 22, Cosmic Carbon 80mm wheels, 20lb) This new TT bike feels slower, requires constant input to maintain speed, say 18-20mph that is very noticeable compared to my road bike where I can cruise seemingly effortlessly spinning to maintain 20mph. (HR and clock times on known flat courses agree with my subjective feeling too)

Several different flat courses at distances from 5 to 20 miles long I have done faster with my 10yo road bike than with the new $6000 TT bike. I demoed bunch of road bikes with dura-ace and ultegra components in the 3K-5K range and all of them feel more responsive and easier to ride than that Scott. (not many TT stores and TT demo bikes around so I've not been able to try other TT bikes) I have another old TT bike that I've been riding so I am comfortable in both road and TT positions. I have put over 500mi on the new Scott already. Stup and position is dialed in, the speed is not there

I brought it back to the bike shop I bought it from, they supposedly found a washer or a shim that was rubbing/being bent in the rear hub assembly, and they changed a bearing, but after picking it back I don't see any difference. My mistake was not riding the bike before buying it, but it was not in store, so they had to ship it in, and I assumed a top of the line bike will be up to par.

I am more than reasonably fit cyclist with racing background, but not keeping current with tech and bike trends.

I have couple of questions and need some advice:
--What could be the issue? Could there be any mechanical problems (none found by shop) or its due to purely geometry and weight, and me having an awesome oldie that I compare it to?
--Could anyone chime in on the feel of riding any of the new massive frames TT bikes like the Cervelo P5 or the Scott Plasma.
--Could that increase weight (17.5 vs 20lb) be the reason? (Isn't 20lb very heavy for a $6K bike, even an aero one?)
--My SO advises me if I am not happy with the bike to return it even if I have to eat any penalty.

Thank you for you responses in advance.
PS: Sorry for the rants. I've been waiting for many years for a new TT bike and this have been crushing me for months

StanSeven

The first thing I would look at is your position. I bet there's some major differences between the two. I know the soloist has a forward position saddle. Does you new bike had a similar forward seat position. That's just for starters. I would carefully check everything.

BatKaio

Yes I've always been riding my road bike with forward seat post and have set up the TT bike with similar position to what my road position on the drops is.

velociraptor

Is this a thing?

Dropping $6k+ on something sight unseen?

Xherion

Couple things. Do you have a power meter, that would tell you right away if you are not putting the same level of effort down. Sounds like you are not putting the same power down in the more forward position.

How is your position on the TT bike? Unless it is really fubar, a TT bike on flats is significantly faster than even an aggressive geometry road bike, along the neighborhood of 2-3 mph at 18+ mph. I have a Giant Trinity, which has thick modern aero tubes and I was easily 2 mph faster at the same wattage as my road bike with little familiarity and experience with a TT bike. But if you aren't producing similar watts and aren't more aero, you won't be any faster on the TT bike. The slight difference in weight is not the reason, especially on flats. TT bikes are rockets compared to road bikes on flats.

krusty

I'm curious as to why your new bike is (relatively speaking) so darn heavy.

2lo8

Includes water bottle and bentobox?

velociraptor

Those TT bikes are like tanks.

I always feel a little bad on group rides for guys on TT bikes trying to climb. Or in a cross wind.

Ouch.

krusty

Many years ago, I had a Ti Tri bike, with a 4 spoke rear and deep carbon front wheel. It weighed 15lbs without really trying to make it light. I suspect the OP could lighten his ride up a bit. That being said, I bet it's a positional issue causing the difference in feel and times. Muscles are being tasked differently, and in a way they are not used to.

12strings

No pity here...they make up for it by going 20+ mph on flats without hardly pedaling....

velociraptor

yeah, when they're on my wheel (har har har).

zonatandem

Have a Scott Plasma3 that I converted to a road bike,
Very happy with it.
Bought it 'used' at a bicycle swap meet with less than 200 miles on it for $700.
Guy bought it new at year end sale. He rode it a few times and decided he did not like tri or TT riding.
Got rid of the tri bars, kept the Dura Ace barend shifters on set of drop bars, got some brakelevers, a 50/34 crankset and cut the c/f seatmast down a bit so I had a proper fit.
Got about a thousand bucks into it.
Great riding/handling bike.
I am no longer competitive (at age 83) but still get in 100 miles a week year round.

grwoolf

I assume you don't run a power meter based on your original post, but a quick comparison on both bikes would answer your question in a hurry.

I suspect you are putting out significantly less power on the TT setup. Even a crappy position on a bike with aero bars will be dramatically faster (unless you are riding serious hills).

Most people put out less power in a TT position, the the aero benefits usually outweigh the power drop. For people new to a TT position, the drop can be dramatic and it's possible to be slower on the TT bike. This can be due to bad fit, but sometimes it just takes lots of hours in the TT position before you adapt the different muscles required to make power.

You say you've had a TT bike, but how many years/miles/hours to you have in a TT position? Have you had someone look at your position? If your saddle position (relative to your BB) is similar to your road bike, that is fundamentally wrong. You should be rotated forward around the BB, so seat should be further forward compared to road bike position (yes, even if you have zero setback post set forward on your road bike).

I'd recommend having someone take a look at your fit. If you don't already have the miles/hours in TT position, put in a few months of focused time in TT position. That should include a 2+ hour ride in TT position each week (not a ride where your spend 50% of your time in TT position, you should be in that position all the time except stopping).

Most people (including me) buy a TT bike and just think you can jump on it and go fast. Some people can, but most can't. My first ride, I couldn't hold 220 watts for 20 minutes (at the time, my FTP was around 280 watts). Within a month, I could actually put out some power (maybe 250?). Within a year, I was within 5-7% of what I could do on my road bike. 4 years later, I can narrow that to almost nothing when I'm doing focused training for a TT.

jdjones

Damn, but you have my admiration. You, sir, are an inspiration.

velociraptor

If it were up to me, you sir would win BF today.

milkbaby

I bet it's 100% a fit issue. I bet your new bike has totally different aerobars, saddle, cranks, etc from your old TT bike. Have you ridden the old TT bike recently and have it be much slower than your road bike? With a proper fit on a TT bike, you should be much faster than on your road bike except for going up and down the mountains.

BatKaio

I don't have power meter. I guess that would be the next step in figuring out the problem. Riding both bikes with a power meter and comparing results.

When I said my position is similar to my road position I meant exactly what you mentioned. I have similar road on the drops body position just rotated forward around the BB. I had a TT bike fit as well. I've spend countless ours pouring over the proper TT positioning.

My new bike position is as close as I can set to the old TT bike as well. I have been riding in TT position about 15%- 20% of my total miles, so it's not like I've not have any muscle training for TT.

vinuneuro

Sounds like good advice based on what you've posted.

BatKaio

I have been riding my old TT bike (Cannondale I600 from 2000-2001-ish - the grandparent of the slice ) about 20% of my total miles (my totals are around 400-600 miles a month)
I am indeed slower on my old TT bike than on my road bike as well. But my old TT bike has old 105 components not very good wheels but interestingly is lighter than the new Plasma at 19.5lb go figure. From your comments it seems like it is a matter of my muscles in the TT position not nearly efficient as in the road position?

StanSeven

The comments of grwolf and milkbaby are right on. If you've got the fit down, and from what you said you have, it's a matter of just getting stronger in the TT position. You are working the quads more and glutes and hamstrings less. More miles with greater intensity from speed workouts will improve that.

Despite riding year round, I don't do tri (TT) training over the winter. I start out slow in the Spring. A few months later I'm much faster and nothing changed except more miles in the TT position while less on the road.

BatKaio

Thanks guys. I'll get my head down and put more hours on the TT bike.

K.Katso

Muscle adaptation. Your position is slightly different and you haven't adapted to the new bike. Lots of people go through this when they get a new TT bike. It happened to me also last winter just from switching from one brand to another (slightly different). You just need to put some time in and your body will adapt. Same thing goes if you alter your position - sometimes you'll lower your bars 1cm and think "wow, I just can't get any power down." Then you just keep at it for a week or two and everything is fine again. Do your intervals in the TT position.

Oh, and weight doesn't really matter with TT bikes. Aero trumps weight, and TT bikes have it in spades.

bmthom.gis

I'm also going to say it is fit. Someone correct me if I am wrong but I believe TT bikes also put you in a position to use slightly different muscles (supposedly keeps muscles used for running fresh). My advice is keep working at it and take it to get a fit with someone who specializes in TT/Tri fits.

Jakedatc

Also what are you running for wheels/tires? They tend to put crap of both on TT bikes because most people will be throwing Zipps or whatever on them anyway. that could easily drop a few pounds. throw the road bikes wheels onto it and give it a shot

Dan333SP

I think you answered your own question, then. Yes, theoretically given the same power and body positioning you should be slightly faster on the new bike versus the old TT bike, but it'd be a pretty marginal difference. If you were slower on the old TT bike than your road bike, it shouldn't be a surprise that you're also slower on the new TT bike than your road bike.

If you can afford a new team-edition TT bike, you can also afford a power meter. That may be eye-opening as I suspect what "feels" like an all-out effort on the TT bike will actually show a bit less average power than the same effort on your road bike, because of the fit and experience issues others mentioned above.