BikingViking793 

I have a Felt Z75 disc size 54 and a Fuji cross comp size 49. When I got the Fuji it had a really short stem and my hands would get sore really easy. I changed the stem to a 90mm and it is better, but still sore on longer rides. Should I just go out a little longer with the stem?

My Felt feels really comfortable, except my feet start going numb on long rides. Strangely enough my feet seem fine on longer rides with the Fuji. I'm using the same shoes for both bikes. Looking for some ideas for changes on both bikes to make a little more comfortable.

Ferrouscious 

I looked at the geometry of both bikes to see if Fuji was sizing their bikes weirdly. They are not. This means one thing...
The Fuji is WAY too small for you. How tall are you?

data points:
Felt 54cm stack: 583mm reach: 375mm (sloping top tube)
Fuji 49cm stack: 518mm reach: 383mm (horizontal top tube)
You're asking to make up 70mm of stack. That's the reason you have numb hands. You're leaning way over on a bike that is too vertically short.

Bottom line is, you need a different bike. The Fuji is never going to feel right.
---
Your feet going numb can be a number of different things. How tight is the lacing system (laces, velcro, ratchet, Boa dial) on your shoes? Are your shoes wide enough or adjusted properly? Clipless pedals? Are they set up properly? Is the saddle level on the Felt? How far back is your saddle behind the bottom bracket? What length of cranks?

BikingViking793 

Thank you for the response. While the bikes are 49 and 54, the stand over is similar. I don’t think I could go any bigger on the Fuji and still be able to stand over it. I’m about 5,6. Most bikes I need to be closer to 50, the felt sizing seems a bit odd from what I have seen.

For my feet like I mentioned I wear the same shoes. On my Fuji and the bike I have on my trainer I don’t really noticed any foot issues. I use SPD pedals. I’ll take a look at the back and try to answer the other questions later today.

jadocs

Stand over is a consideration as part of a larger set of things that need to be considered for proper fit. Without seeing the geometry or a picture of you on the bike, the reach of both are probably significantly different.

jadocs

How tall are you?

I am 5'-7" and I ride a 54cm Fuji Cross 2.0 LE.

BikingViking793 

Right. So if the bike is a bit small am I right to lengthen the stem a bit more for a better fit?

Iride01 

What would not be right is to not change anything. So give it a try.

Carbonfiberboy 

I'm 5'6" and a 52 fits me perfectly, though I can ride up to a 54. A 50 is too small. That said, one buys a bike by effective top tube length, not seat tube length, in spite of how they manufacturer sizes them. Your hands are sore because your saddle in in the wrong place. Your feet get numb probably because of the saddle or your saddle is too high. See my DIY bike fit primer:
https://www.bikeforums.net/21296948-post3.html

BikingViking793 

Thank you for all the responses. I should mention that both bikes have a WTB Rocket saddle, the least wide size. I find the saddle comfortable. The Fuji does have a shorter crank at 170 and the Felt 172.5. I guess an image of me on both bikes might be the most useful? I think a longer stem might help with the Fuji, but still not sure what to do with the Felt for my feet. Wider saddle was suggested which maybe I should try for feet? But I feel weird messing with saddle when my butt is always comfy. Maybe I can find a cheap rocket in one of the wider sizes to check out. I believe both bikes are set up to have the same distance from saddle to pedal.

Carbonfiberboy 

Have you followed my bike fit instructions from the link in post 9? If you haven't, do it now. If you have, then that 54 really is too big for you. That's a big 54 or you have really short legs. One usually wants to see 3"-4" of exposed seat post. Probably not possible to get the usual road fit on that bike.

In this photo, you have the front wheel turned so that perspective and rotation make it difficult to see for sure how your bars and brifters are set up. However from what I can see . . .First thing is to remove any spacers under that stem and put them on top of it. Then roll your bars forward until the tops of the bars, the ramps, are level. The ramps are the sections of the bars between the tops and your brake hoods. Then move your hoods up the bars a bit until the levers are plumb, until they look like this: https://www.bikeforums.net/19145009-post3.html
That'll involve messing with your bar tape.

If your saddle is comfortable, the numb feet problem isn't your saddle.

Iride01 

Numb feet might simply be fluid building up from the exercise and swelling your feet a little inside your shoes. I have a little bit of that every now and then. Good hydration habits help some. Also, wearing thin compression socks have helped too. Swiftwick and some sold by Specialized that look just like Swiftwick are my favorites so far.

It's the foot portion of the sock that you want to be compression and thin so it fits in your shoe. If they aren't a pain in the butt to get on and off till you get used to putting them on, then they may not be doing anything useful, IMO.

BikingViking793 

Yeah I always thought it was probably something just like that, but then I had no foot problems on a long ride on my cross bike so thought there just might be some adjustment I can do to the road bike.

BikingViking793 

It is possible it's a little bit big, but it feels good except for the feet going numb on long rides. I've done quite a few adjustments for bike fit for other issues. For example at one point I had pain on the backs of my knees so I lowered the seat and that went away. Today I rode 25 miles and I do wonder if my seat is a little too low, would a low saddle cause feet problems? I have to be careful not to bring back the pain in the back of the knee though. Another time I was getting pain on the inside of my knees so I adjusted my cleats. Here is a better look at my bars. I've never tried to do any adjustments with them.

Carbonfiberboy 

Yeah, OK. The bars and brifters look fine. It was the angle of the front wheel distorting the geometry. All the same, try moving the brifters down the bars until the brake levers are vertical. At about that same point, the tops of the hoods should form a continuous line with the ramps. You might have to have a bike shop show you where the allen screw is that has to be loosened or just have them do it. The idea is that, with elbows properly bent, you should be able to rest your wrists on the flat formed by the ramps and hoods. That might fix your hand numbness right there. You should also look at the Numb Hands post. Note how the women in the bottom two photos have positioned their hands on the hoods. Also look at Lovely Bicycle for hand positions. On that page, particularly note the two photos in which she has her little finger behind the bar. That's my default position on the hoods, including the little finger. The finger is to make is to make it more difficult for your hands to be dislodged by an unfortunate bump. I picked that up from watching an American TdF rider. Works.

Back to the saddle - do what's indicated in those fit instructions I posted. You've tried doing it by feel. Now try doing it correctly and systematically. Here's what it's supposed to look like and how it's supposed to work:


.

GAtkins

Try shimming your cleats, helped me a lot.

https://www.bikefit.com/p-7-8-pack-l...at-wedges.aspx

No affiliation.

Try loosening your shoe velcro or boa or whatever.

Glenn

Iride01 

I too looked at the pic of the fuji and wondered what you were thinking with that size bike. The saddle slammed and the bars higher than the saddle. At 49 yo, you should dare yourself to go in the other direction. Bars lower than saddle are not just about being aero. That also removes some weight off of your arms, hands and wrists because the trunk and hips can only bend so far.

It's not a cure all though. But I've found for longer, further, faster riding, it's more comfortable overall. Though at first it took quite a bit of effort to get used too just because my body wasn't used to it. We sometimes nix stuff too soon because of things not feeling quite right. If you have always rode with bars higher than saddle this will be one of those things you will probably say isn't right at first. But try it and give it a fair chance.

My biggest issue initially was my beer gut. Didn't like my thighs pounding into it. But the gut goes away and also simply gets used to it. Shorter cranks might help too. Mine are 165 mm with >34.5 inch legs attached to them.

As for saddle width. Wide saddles can be very comfortable for short rides. But on long rides you might find they rub sores on you and you have to resort to buying chamois cream in gallon buckets. I don't ever use chamois cream or anything else. Just decent fitting shorts or bibs and a saddle that is appropriate.

BikingViking793 

Here are a couple pictures of both bikes. They are different, but I don't really think crazy different sized. Again the Fuji is a 49 and my hands tend to get sore, the Felt is a 54 and my feet get more numb. I'm just looking for tips for what I might change on each to make a bit more comfortable, not getting any new bikes right now. I did some measuring and the distance from seat to pedal is pretty much the same. The distance from seat to bars is a little farther for the felt. The seat on the Fuji is higher from the ground, but I think the BB is probably higher and the crank is a little shorter. Thanks in advance for any ideas of what I could try.

jadocs

How tall are you?

Carbonfiberboy 

The other thing you could do is to flip the stem on the Fuji. Then it won't look so . . . Of course we have no way of knowing if the saddle is even vaguely the right height. It looks too low for a 5'6" rider.

Iride01 

Saddle height for comparison purposes should be from the top of saddle about where you plant your butt to the pedal at the bottom of it's stroke or if you want to get ticky, the position that puts the pedal the furthest from that point on the saddle.

Generally I'd think you'd want your saddle height the same on all bikes. Especially if in the same genre. IE. road bike, mountain bike, unicycle, etc.

Since you've shown us the pics, we are wondering about bike size and your size. If you don't mind what is your leg length from snug in the crotch to the floor? I don't care if you have shoes on or not, but you don't ride barefoot do you? As long as they aren't six inch stiletto's either way will be fine. <grin> And then what's that measurement from saddle to pedal?

Oh... previously I thought you'd posted you were 49 yo, but looking back I must have confused a bike size with age.

BikingViking793 

Will lowering bars by flipping the stem help take pressure off hands? They are up a bit cause I’ve read that would help hands. But pretty sure I’ve read lowering sometimes helps too.

BikingViking793 

Leg length with shoes is about 30”. The stand over on the Fuji is just under 30”. I’m comfortable standing over it. Yeah the Fuji is size 49. I might be able to raise seat a little, but I’m cautious because I had behind the knee pain when it was too high. That pain sticks around, the numb feet goes away when I stop riding.





I’ll try to get some pics on bikes when I have somebody to take the pics.

Iride01 

I kinda sorta like and agree with what this guy wrote about setting saddle height. Essentially because he says it's something that might be a long process to discover it and you move in millimeters and try for a time not inches. https://road.cc/content/feature/how-...-height-166709

However I'd claim you can get a fairly accurate leg length yourself. Just tuck one of those roll up metal tape measures like carpenters and framers use up snug into your crotch and then run the tape to the floor and remember to add the correction of 3-1/4 inches or whatever is written on the tape measure housing.

If that 30 inches of inseam is your leg length and not your pant length, then based on that, 32.7" should be your saddle height to the pedal. You might start a little lower if you think that was the height you had issues at, but if you are more than an inch lower, I'd have to wonder what else is wrong in your fitting or what is so unique in your measurements or physiology. My saddle on my previous bike I rode till the first of the year measures to within a 1/4 inch to 3/8ths inch of what saddle to BB and saddle to pedal percentages come to.

I thought my saddle on the new bike was set the same, but I just found it's off by an inch. I have been wondering about it on the last few rides. Wish I'd marked the seat post so I'd know if it slipped or whether I just measured wrong.

You mentioned a pain in your knee when you had your seat up. I grew up on bikes with short cranks. Usually 165 mm. I tried a 172 or 172.5 mm crankset on my previous bike just after I got it and I had an annoyance, not pain right behind my right knee. Mostly it annoyed my after I got off the bike. I rode those cranks for about 4 months, which was at least 900 miles and the annoyance never changed. I went back to 165 cranks and almost immediately the annoyance was gone. Nothing else changed except the saddle went about 5 mm higher at the time of installation.

Is that one of your issues? Who knows. Other things can make the same or similar pain or annoyance. In my experience or lack thereof, you have to be willing to try different things long enough to see what the result is. Not just long enough to note that the new thing just feels odd because you aren't used to it yet.

2¢................. Stand over height means nothing for sizing a bike to you. That is just for protection of a couple things you might value. Usually it's only on vintage road bikes with horizontal top tube that it's ever an issue.

I also think your seat post gives your saddle more setback than I'd want. Moving the saddle back seems to be the thing I see most do that like sitting upright. For those of us that get more aero with our position, it might be a toss up on the forward saddle or rearward saddle setback. But that is something else where you can shorten reach to bars. Whether it's for you? If you don't try you won't know.

BikingViking793 

It does look like I can go up a bit on the saddle for both bikes. According to the suggested measurement all my bikes are a bit low. My trainer bike is about 31" and the two bikes pictured are about 30.5". Is this going to help with my hands on the Fuji or my Feet on the Felt? Think I've read that too low can cause numbness in feet.

Also I have a question about my saddle. Like I mentioned I find it really comfortable and I've tried a few, but what about tilt? The Rocket has the sloping up back. Currently I have them where most the saddle it level and then the back slopes up. Should it be tilted more nose up so the nose and the top of the back are level? Was thinking about that to relieve my hands on the Fuji. As you can see in the picture the nose is down just a bit from the top of the sloping back.