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Fit? Not Fit?

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Fitting Your Bike Are you confused about how you should fit a bike to your particular body dimensions? Have you been reading, found the terms Merxx or French Fit, and don’t know what you need? Every style of riding is different- in how you fit the bike to you, and the sizing of the bike itself. It’s more than just measuring your height, reach and inseam. With the help of Bike Fitting, you’ll be able to find the right fit for your frame size, style of riding, and your particular dimensions. Here ya’ go…..the location for everything fit related.

Fit? Not Fit?

Old 09-01-20, 04:13 PM
  #1  
Michael Ar
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Fit? Not Fit?


The line along the top tube is horizontal, the line through the pedal axle is plumb.
Thoughts?

Thanks,
Michael
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Old 09-01-20, 04:40 PM
  #2  
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Is it comfortable? I don't care what numbers and formulas say about fit if I'm comfortable. So if you like it for the riding that you do, then that is all that matters.


Seat might be too high though. And lowering that will mess everything else up. What do you look like with your pedal furthest away from you?
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Old 09-01-20, 04:53 PM
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I think it is quite comfortable. After I changed the saddle so I was no longer getting chafed or numb parts. I was riding it 30 miles every day, and up to 40 miles, with maybe 15lbs of stuff in low rider bags and wasn't suffering any ill effects. Unfortunately I crashed with a skid on wet leaves a couple of weeks ago and messed my shoulder up. So I'm substituting geometry for riding tests at the moment. I don't think I'm worried on the comfort front, but also wondering if there is some efficiency boost in a proper set up.

Thanks,
Michael
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Old 09-01-20, 05:59 PM
  #4  
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Pretty much perfect fit, IMO. You have a proper set up. You could maybe move your saddle back 1 cm.
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Old 09-01-20, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
Pretty much perfect fit, IMO. You have a proper set up. You could maybe move your saddle back 1 cm.
I agree with Carbonfiberboy,

At a glance of just your pic it looks good. I agree your seat is maybe a touch to far forward but yea, looks good. Your comfort is key, not what a number says it should be.
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Old 09-01-20, 07:21 PM
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Thanks guys. I think I still have a safe cm on the saddle rails so I'll try that tomorrow. And hopefully the shoulder will let me get out for at least a short ride.. I lowered the saddle a cm or so from where I had been riding on it so I guess it makes sense that it needs to go back some now. I liked it quite well as I had it set up, but thought maybe I was getting a little too much extension in my legs.

Thanks,
Michael
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Old 09-02-20, 07:00 AM
  #7  
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It looks like your bars are about as far forward as they should be, so if you go back a cm in the saddle you might be in the market for a touch shorter stem...
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Old 09-02-20, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
Is it comfortable? I don't care what numbers and formulas say about fit if I'm comfortable. So if you like it for the riding that you do, then that is all that matters.


Seat might be too high though. And lowering that will mess everything else up. What do you look like with your pedal furthest away from you?
I didn't see the last part of your reply. I thought I had a photo of full extension, but I only have one with my heel on the pedal.



Originally Posted by 55murray
It looks like your bars are about as far forward as they should be, so if you go back a cm in the saddle you might be in the market for a touch shorter stem...
I have been thinking about a shorter reach and/or taller stem even without moving the saddle back. I would like to get it as dialed in to my liking as I can as it sits and then decide. Unfortunately the bad shoulder makes judgement on comfort about impossible at the moment. Do you think it would be worthwhile to put an adjustable mtn type quill stem on to make it easier to play with different positions before making a final decision? in the end I would like to optimize the comfort for loaded touring rides.

ON the drops.



Thanks,
Michael
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Old 09-02-20, 09:34 AM
  #9  
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don't put too much stock in getting your knee over you pedal spindle. that's a useful reference point, but if moving your saddle so that your knee is fore or aft of that position makes you feel comfortable and balanced on the saddle, that is the right position for you.
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Old 09-02-20, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Ar
I have been thinking about a shorter reach and/or taller stem even without moving the saddle back. I would like to get it as dialed in to my liking as I can as it sits and then decide. Unfortunately the bad shoulder makes judgement on comfort about impossible at the moment. Do you think it would be worthwhile to put an adjustable mtn type quill stem on to make it easier to play with different positions before making a final decision? in the end I would like to optimize the comfort for loaded touring rides.
Well, I'm primarily on C&V bikes with the classic quills and I have just switched them out since I like the look so much better. Not a trivial effort, I note carefully on a ride where I would like my grip to be (after absolute confirmation that I have the saddle exactly where I want it) and note the exact difference from what is currently on the bike, and order the closest size to get me there. Last winter I optimized the reach on my modern hybrid commuter and that was so much easier to do, not having to strip everything off the bars.
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Old 09-02-20, 02:38 PM
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Don't be in a hurry to make too many changes till you've had a chance to try one out for enough miles to know it was the right thing to do. What feels good for a 10 miles ride might be different for a 40 or more mile ride.
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Old 09-02-20, 04:56 PM
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Michael Ar
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Originally Posted by mack_turtle
don't put too much stock in getting your knee over you pedal spindle. that's a useful reference point, but if moving your saddle so that your knee is fore or aft of that position makes you feel comfortable and balanced on the saddle, that is the right position for you.
Noted. The geometry is mainly me trying to learn while I can't comfortably ride.


Originally Posted by 55murray
Well, I'm primarily on C&V bikes with the classic quills and I have just switched them out since I like the look so much better. Not a trivial effort, I note carefully on a ride where I would like my grip to be (after absolute confirmation that I have the saddle exactly where I want it) and note the exact difference from what is currently on the bike, and order the closest size to get me there. Last winter I optimized the reach on my modern hybrid commuter and that was so much easier to do, not having to strip everything off the bars.
I agree, the classic quill stem is a great look. If I decide I need to raise the bars I'll probably order a Technomic long quill model. But it does seem like an adjustable mtn stem would make it a lot less painful to find out what position in space I want the bars to occupy. I stopped at the local bike library today and they didn't have either the long quill or an adjustable. So fiddling with that is on hold for the moment.


Originally Posted by Iride01
Don't be in a hurry to make too many changes till you've had a chance to try one out for enough miles to know it was the right thing to do. What feels good for a 10 miles ride might be different for a 40 or more mile ride.
I agree. I've made my one change now by lowering the saddle a bit. I took a very short ride on it today and I think it was an improvement. But further testing will probably have to wait until next week for my shoulder to settle down some more. I usually ride the same two trails every day. One 19 mile and one 12 mile. So I have historical data about my ride times and avg speeds. And I know how I felt after a few days of riding them in a row. I am thinking 3 days of riding for any one change. Unless it's quickly clear that the resulting change is negative.


Really wishing I could get in a good ride today.


Thanks all,

Michael

Last edited by Michael Ar; 09-02-20 at 04:58 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 09-04-20, 04:18 PM
  #13  
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My shoulder improved enough for me to get out for a 4 mile ride this morning and my usual 12 mile ride this afternoon. I would say the jury is still out on the saddle height change. Not distinctly better or worse. I think tomorrow I'll try moving it back 1 cm and tilting the nose up slightly. That will about put me at the end of my ranges on the saddle without getting a setback seat post.

On the stem question, I noted today and recall it from the past as well, that I ride with my hands about an inch and a half behind the hoods rather than on them. That seems to be my most comfortable position. I would say it was breaking down about 30% hoods, 50% behind the hoods and 20% on the tops. I got a couple of stems earlier this week to try out. One is a Sunshine alloy with a 50 mm reach and the other is a steel mtn bike type. My current Technomic is a 100 mm reach.

The Sunshine can be extended a bit taller than my Technomic. The drawing below is a very rough comparison of the relative bar positions with these two and my current bar with all of them at the max extension line.

Do you think one of these will give me a bar position I prefer? i need to get some new bar tape on hand before I play with them. And on the subject of bar tape and fitting of a different sort, do you think tape the color of my water bottle would look good with this frame color? Semi-serious question.


Thanks,
Michael

Last edited by Michael Ar; 09-04-20 at 04:21 PM. Reason: add info
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Old 09-11-20, 03:12 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by Michael Ar
My shoulder improved enough for me to get out for a 4 mile ride this morning and my usual 12 mile ride this afternoon. I would say the jury is still out on the saddle height change. Not distinctly better or worse. I think tomorrow I'll try moving it back 1 cm and tilting the nose up slightly. That will about put me at the end of my ranges on the saddle without getting a setback seat post.

On the stem question, I noted today and recall it from the past as well, that I ride with my hands about an inch and a half behind the hoods rather than on them. That seems to be my most comfortable position. I would say it was breaking down about 30% hoods, 50% behind the hoods and 20% on the tops. I got a couple of stems earlier this week to try out. One is a Sunshine alloy with a 50 mm reach and the other is a steel mtn bike type. My current Technomic is a 100 mm reach.

The Sunshine can be extended a bit taller than my Technomic. The drawing below is a very rough comparison of the relative bar positions with these two and my current bar with all of them at the max extension line.

Do you think one of these will give me a bar position I prefer? i need to get some new bar tape on hand before I play with them. And on the subject of bar tape and fitting of a different sort, do you think tape the color of my water bottle would look good with this frame color? Semi-serious question.


Thanks,
Michael
First I agree, you do look pretty good on that bike. Before you go too far into changing things, I would suggest two functional checks, not numerical checks.

First, put on your riding shoes or any shoes that you ride in, put your heel on the pedal (either side) so your ankle and knee stack with the pedal spindle, and pedal backwards until your knee is straight. Let your other leg hang down loosely. In this position the target is for your foot to just be in contact with the pedal. Try it with the other foot. Mark the original height of the seatpost. If there was pressure required to get your knee straight, the seat should be eased up until you are just in contact with no pressure. The point of this is to be able to spin without your hips rocking, since for most people this causes your undercarriage to be chafed against the saddle. If I find when my saddle is below this point, my legs do not get enough extension and the soles of my feet feel like I'm trying to drive my feet through the pedal - too much knee pressure. I adjust up or down from this by about a millimeter (yeah, really!) at a time to adjust as time and riding go on.

Second functiional check is fore-aft balance. Sitting on the saddlewith your hands on the hoods or ramps, try to lift your hands just an inch up. If you can do that without falling forward, your saddle fore-aft position is about right. The idea is to raise your hands just a bit above the grips mainly with your leg strength. If you are falling forward, you should be moving the saddle back about ¼ inch at a time. But before you do that, mark or measure and record the tilt (nose up/nose down, and how much). After you have moved the saddle back and set the tilt, revisit the saddle height with the heel on pedal method. If you moved the saddle back, it may need to be lowered a little bit. You should be able to raise your butt a little bit above the saddle without hafalling forward or backward and put your sitbones down on the wide part of the saddle. This plus the hand lift will go a long way toward handling road bumps. I think this is a more precise setting of saddle height and setback than you get with formulas and plumb line measurements.

After this and when you get back on the road, you may still find yourself sliding forward or back as you pedal. I think this is because of gravity, so we have to find a functional balance that keeps you sit bones back where they belong, and does not increase abrasion or pressure on your undercarriage in front of the sit bone contact points. For this adjustment its best to have a two-bolt type of seatpost (like what Velo Orange sells) and adjust in small increments. If you feel abrasion, don't delay in addressing it.
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Old 09-11-20, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Road Fan
First I agree, you do look pretty good on that bike. Before you go too far into changing things, I would suggest two functional checks, not numerical checks.

First, put on your riding shoes or any shoes that you ride in, put your heel on the pedal (either side) so your ankle and knee stack with the pedal spindle, and pedal backwards until your knee is straight. Let your other leg hang down loosely. In this position the target is for your foot to just be in contact with the pedal. Try it with the other foot. Mark the original height of the seatpost. If there was pressure required to get your knee straight, the seat should be eased up until you are just in contact with no pressure. The point of this is to be able to spin without your hips rocking, since for most people this causes your undercarriage to be chafed against the saddle. If I find when my saddle is below this point, my legs do not get enough extension and the soles of my feet feel like I'm trying to drive my feet through the pedal - too much knee pressure. I adjust up or down from this by about a millimeter (yeah, really!) at a time to adjust as time and riding go on.

Second functiional check is fore-aft balance. Sitting on the saddlewith your hands on the hoods or ramps, try to lift your hands just an inch up. If you can do that without falling forward, your saddle fore-aft position is about right. The idea is to raise your hands just a bit above the grips mainly with your leg strength. If you are falling forward, you should be moving the saddle back about ¼ inch at a time. But before you do that, mark or measure and record the tilt (nose up/nose down, and how much). After you have moved the saddle back and set the tilt, revisit the saddle height with the heel on pedal method. If you moved the saddle back, it may need to be lowered a little bit. You should be able to raise your butt a little bit above the saddle without hafalling forward or backward and put your sitbones down on the wide part of the saddle. This plus the hand lift will go a long way toward handling road bumps. I think this is a more precise setting of saddle height and setback than you get with formulas and plumb line measurements.

After this and when you get back on the road, you may still find yourself sliding forward or back as you pedal. I think this is because of gravity, so we have to find a functional balance that keeps you sit bones back where they belong, and does not increase abrasion or pressure on your undercarriage in front of the sit bone contact points. For this adjustment its best to have a two-bolt type of seatpost (like what Velo Orange sells) and adjust in small increments. If you feel abrasion, don't delay in addressing it.
Thanks for the detailed description of your set up technique. i will try the heel/knee method when the rain lets up. We've had a number of days of rain in a tow now. I had gotten back to riding before the rains set in. i did move the saddle back a half inch or so from where it was in the photos and also tilted the nose up a bit. I like it quite a lot. I haven't been having as much of a problem with slipping forward. I haven't tried the hand lifting you describe, but in normal riding I don't have any pressure on the bars with my hands, and I've been riding mostly on the hoods lately as well. I do start putting more pressure on the bars after about 15 or 16 miles. I think that is coming from my legs and core tiring. So all told, I'm pretty happy with where it is right now. I still want to experiment with the stem height and reach, but that is waiting until I need to change the bar tape. I'm also thinking that being back into my riding routine I'll maybe develop a little more strength in my legs and core and that might change my preferences somewhat.

Thanks,
Michael
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Old 09-11-20, 07:32 PM
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You're coming off an injury, If you move anything and the bike doesn't feel right, you have no idea if it is the bike or you, Keep it simple, Only change should be to raise your stem a cm or two until you feel better and stronger and it is time to push it back down (probably in two smaller steps). (I love the old quill stems for exactly that reason. Mark it with tape before you raise it.)

Trust me. I've had enough injuries and comebacks. While on the comeback I bike you know works is a huge asset. (New, you may have to tweak things for your injuries. Document what you did so you can go back exactly.)

When your back riding and strong, only then should you start changing the fit.

Ben

Edit: I see I'm a bit late!
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Old 09-11-20, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
You're coming off an injury, If you move anything and the bike doesn't feel right, you have no idea if it is the bike or you, Keep it simple, Only change should be to raise your stem a cm or two until you feel better and stronger and it is time to push it back down (probably in two smaller steps). (I love the old quill stems for exactly that reason. Mark it with tape before you raise it.)

Trust me. I've had enough injuries and comebacks. While on the comeback I bike you know works is a huge asset. (New, you may have to tweak things for your injuries. Document what you did so you can go back exactly.)

When your back riding and strong, only then should you start changing the fit.

Ben

Edit: I see I'm a bit late!
excellent point, Ben!
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