Badstoob

Hi,

After a 10+ year hiatus from cycling, I'm looking at getting back into it. I have decided to concentrate my search on gravel bikes which should hopefully cope wtih the poor condition our UK roads are in and the occasional blast through the local forest trails and paths.

From what I gather, a gravel bike should have a threaded bottom bracket, internal cable routing, wide tyre clearance and hydraulic brakes. After fiddling with mechanical disc brakes in the past, I'm keen to get hydraulics. Most of the bikes on my shortlist have most of these "essentials":

Specialized Diverge E5 Elite
Trek Checkpoint ALR4 / ALR5
Giant Toughroad
Cannondale Topstone
Nukeproof Digger (online only as I can't find it locally)
Boardman ADV8.9 (available at my LBS)
Sonder Camino AL (online only - recently won bike of the year on a UK based website)
Vitus Energie VR (online only - Actually a Cyclocross bike)
Pinnacle Arkose D2 (Evans are in trouble at the moment and the delivery dates keep slipping right..... There are still some 2018 models available - Arkose 2)

I know nothing about geometry, hence why I'm here. The Vitus Energie models are my favourite but I'm afriad that is based purely on looks. Would it be suitable for an unfit, effectively beginner rider? Is the geometry vastly different from the other bikes labelled 'gravel'? Giant, Genesis and Boardman are available locally to me but the others are online only or I would have to travel farther afield. Is SRAM Rival £100 better than Apex?

Apologies for my ramblings but any help would be much appreciated. Edit - I did post links to the UK based bikes but it won't let me pos them due to my post count. Doh!

BrocLuno

I'd start with a test ride on a well fitted (to you) Specialized Diverge. That ought to get you into the ball park and allow you to have a good baseline. Others will feel quicker, more nimble, twitchier, etc.

If I had a big budget and I wanted top shelf, it would be a Moots YBB. But that is prolly out of normal human reach ...

Badstoob

Thanks for the reply. The nearest Specialized dealer is about 40 miles away and ironically I might be heading that way tomorrow so I'll hopefully take a look at it then. The specs obviously don't come anywhere near the ones found on some of the other bikes I mentioned. I assume that most of the money is going towards the frame? Is a Specialized frame that much better? Are any of the Diverge models at the lower end more value than the others? The Futureshock models are probably more than I was planning on spending and you don't get hydraulics on a Diverge until you spend more than £2k. A friend of mine used to have a Stumpjumper and it did well. He had to upgrade a few parts along the way but it was a cracking bike. I hadn't heard of Moots until I watched a GCN video in Iceland (MTB vs Gravel bike) on YouTube. Thanks again.

Hmmm

To start, Cyclocross bikes are more aggressive and Touring bikes are very stable when used in frame geometry gravel is very loose and can be anything in between. Also, to me personally, aggressive CX geometry means fun and race-like, stable means boring. To me the Vitus looks really fun and fast, but it's up to your personal preference. If you can get out and ride a few to feel the differences between the models that is always idea.

tangerineowl

Have you ridden a drop bar bike before? If you're coming from a flatbar previously then the forward/down position will take a little getting used to.

Depending on your budget I'd add to your list suitable Planet-X gravel bikes with the specs you're chasing, for example the BishBashBosh and the Holdsworth gravel bike. Their prices are pretty good for spec.

Also the Ribble range of gravel bikes e.g. the CGR SL (carbon frame) are worth having a look at.

rivers

Out of that list, the Boardman is probably your best bet. They are pretty well regarded as good value for money. I know quite a few people with various bikes from the Boardman range and all seen quite happy. It's just whether or not you get a decent mechanic who assembles it at Halfords. Although if younger it from cycle republic, their mechanics are pretty good as they are a dedicated bike shop.

Badstoob

I have ridden drop bars before, just not very often. I got used to it.

I don't think they do the Bish Bash Bosh anymore. I did look at Planet x as a guy I met at Le mans once cycled from the ferry port to the circuit. We thought he was mental. He said it was the best bike he had ever owned and he regularly did long rides on it.

They do the Full Monty for £800 - £1000 and the carbon Space Chicken for £1500. I've read they regularly discount their prices but I haven't seen any movement in the couple of months I've been looking. Likewise for the Boardman.

I had kind of ruled out the Ribble and Canyon Grail due to the delivery dates. I think the Grail has a 5-6 month waiting list. I've waited that long for a car but stuff waiting that long for a bike. The Ribble models have been on pre-order since they were announced and from what I can gather very few people have actually taken delivery.

Plans changed for today so I'll take a drive to the Specialized and Giant dealers next week.
​

Esthetic

Just got a smoking deal on a CAADX SE. Came with 37c Riddlers, Frame looks to have the space to possibly clear 40-42c comfortably on this rim. While the geo of frame is racier, i'll tell you that rake/heattube angle (even with stem set negative rise) makes it so much more comfortable that my other road bikes from a position standpoint, let alone the generous air volume. Not sure i would want anything more lax position than this since i still like to attack miles at a strong pace.

I too originally was looking at the Topstone, but i found a 2018 105SE CAADX on ebay for $900 new in my size, and that a decent amout less than the Sora equipped Topstone. It has mounting options for the fenders and arch too, so i didnt sacrifice any of that versatility. Topstones have very hard to find locally around my ways , only a few of the green Sora's have made it to my local shops.

That said the selection you've narrowed down are all great. Also checkout the Canyon Inflite AL and the Canyon Grail AL.

09box

Giants are pretty good bikes for the money. I saw a Pinnacle Arkose X (think that is what its called) on Road Bike Sale's site for $540 usd..

Witterings

If you want something else to throw into the mix, after considering most of the ones in your list I’ve just bought a Merida Silex which has a relatively relaxed geometry suited to long ish day rides

Badstoob

I visited a couple of LBS today. First one was a Cannondale dealer. The Topstone Sora looks amazing in the flesh but they didn't have my size in stock. Next stop was to a Specialized/Trek stockist. I had a sit on the entry level red E5 and the blue alloy E5 comp with the future shock. The Diverge was really comfortable. I then had a sit on the Trek ALR4 in a couple of sizes and didn't feel it at all. It felt longer but the guy in the shop put that down to the bigger shimano hoods. In the UK you only get the black model and I know it's shallow and that colour choice is subjective but it was boring to look at and the decals looked naff.

I asked the guy if upgrading the mechanical brakes on the spesh models would be worth doing but he said it would be around £500 including labour and I would be better off getting a hydraulic braked bike from the off which made sense. Why-oh-why do Specialized not do hydraulics on any of the lower end alloy diverge models? I also noticed there was no obvious way to fit a rack on the diverge but was informed you had to use an adaptor which sounded a bit Heath Robinson to me. Had any of the Specialized bikes had hydraulics I think I would have ended my search there and then. Maybe if the Trek came in any colour other than Henry Ford black and I went with their advice of swapping the stem out for a shorter one, I might have went with the Checkpoint but I left with my credit card intact.

The Topstone 105 looks very dull, again shame that the green isn't available in a higher spec. The Cannondale dealer is a small affair and I don't know if they would order my size in to try.

​​​​​​The Diverge has certainly got me thinking though as it was really comfortable, albeit to just sit on!!

Witterings

Must admit that was probably the main reason I didn't get one and also their tyre width is very limiting at 38mm on the alloy versions and there's mixed opinions of the Future Shock if that's the model you were thinking of.

What size are you by the way, the other I was seriously interested in was the Canyon Grail (don't think the waiting list was as long when I was looking at them) but I'm 5'7 and the correct size for me was only available in 650b and not 700c.

Badstoob

The guy in the shop was singing the praises of the future shock, likewise the guy in the cannondale shop was highlighting a feature of the Topstone frame (flex or something). I wasn't looking at spending £1600 (he mentioned there might be some wiggle room with the Trek but didn't say anything about the spesh) on the E5 comp but I really was impressed with the fit and the overall package of the spesh. I'm actually surprised I didn't buy it! I must admit had I not been researching gravel bikes and just walked in off the street, I would probably have just bought the basic E5. It really is a cracking bike but the lack of (affordable) upgrades for the brakes put me off.

With regards to sizng, it was a 56 in the spesh and a 54 in the trek, even though the size chart recommended bigger frames.

tangerineowl

Re your geometry comment, take note of the stack and reach in the geometry chart of the bikes you're looking at.

You liked the fit of the 56cm Diverge. That frame is the odd one out among your list due to its quite tall stack compared to its reach.
(I'd be surprised if you liked the fit of any of the others).

The only comparable 'gravel' bike in an alu frame is the Fuji Jari 1.1 in the XL size (stack and reach), but from what I understand the UK doesn't have them.

The carbon Blue Prosecco EX models (at Merlin) in the ML size is the next best option, but that size has sold out. It also doesn't have a threaded bb, nor the clearance of some of the other bikes.

Saying that, you might be ok on one of the others, just that you'd be riding in a more aggressive position.

Note: the Ribble CGR Al has the specs/price, and the geo would be a good fit in the L size. Just would have to wait it out.
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribbl...shimano-105-1/

Would a steel model be an option? (It will weigh somewhat more than an alu).

Badstoob

Thanks for that, that's extremely helpful. I will now check out the reach/stack figs when I'm looking at the geometry. I didn't realise that the Diverge would be so unique in that regard. The Ribble website doesn't give standover height but I will ask.


WRT steel, I certainly wouldn't rule it out.

Lava

The Salsa Vaya is a bike with similar less aggressive geometry, if the fit of the Diverge appealed to you. Not sure what Salsa's availability is like overseas, but it's worth a thought. It's steel with a carbon fork, and feels a little heftier than the Diverge, but is a nicely specced bike otherwise.

RicePudding

I have a Toughroad GX 1 as my do-it-all bike. As far as I can see it meets your requirements. There are a lot of very good deals on it with it well beneath the <£1000 mark.

A couple of my own observations since you had it on your list:

The breaks on it are "semi-hydraulic" but are excellent. One of the things that Giant is very good at is that their gravel bikes have hydraulic brakes albeit cable operated. The breaks feel very good and from my own experience, have a little bit of a learning curve but are very easy to service, even easier than full hydraulic in my experience.

The geometry of the bike is more stable than racey with a long wheelbase and Chainstay but can be set up aggressively as the head tube is very short and the bike has heaps of clearance for big tyres allowing up to 50mm on a 700c rim.

Other little perks that I found to the Toughroad which are a rarity at this price point is the carbon composite seat post, which although is proprietary, is a very comfortable addition and is well worth trying for yourself.

If I was looking towards a Giant gravel bike now though I'd seriously consider looking at the new Revolt Advanced 2 if your budget can be stretched far enough as it it similar to the Toughroad but is full carbon, 105 gearing and has a more racey geometry. However the breaks are still Giant's cable actuated setup so still not full hydraulic, personally wouldn't be a deal breaker but at this price point you could get full hydraulic.

BrocLuno

OK, now you have some exposure to the Diverge. You understand why it was important to look, sit, feel that bike. All for comparison purposes. You have the baseline.

I have no issue with mechanical disk brakes. As long as the pads are good, the discs not contaminated, and the cables lubed - they work OK. Get a kink, crack or split in a hydraulic hose and you will not stop. Most folks can tinker mechanical brakes back into some sort of working order. Bad (ie: cheap) mechanical discs are not good. But properly set-up ones with decent components are OK.

Now you have more ideas to work with and that was the goal. Your final decision will be an informed one

If you end up with a bike with mechanical discs, Boeing Boe-Shield TO9 is your friend. It was/is a dry lube used for airplane landing gear, to reduce "stiction" and repel water/grit/grime. It works very well. It ain't cheap, but it does what they say. Used by boaters, and bikers who know. Use it sparingly on the cam surfaces. DO NOT get it on the disc. It will let the cams work easily and you will have enough stopping power

TimothyH

Topstone was discussed at https://www.bikeforums.net/cyclocros...-topstone.html.


-Tim-

chas58

For the UK, 38mm is probably plenty. Its not as rough as in the US. But you do need to figure out what tire size you want and then go from there as that will limit some bikes from your list.

As for the Grail - I'm 5'9" normally ride a 54cm, and ended up getting a small Inflite. Never bough a small frame before, but its what I needed with their sizing.

Witterings

Wouldn't that depend on where you're riding in the UK or the US ... I can find really nice smooth gravel paths around here and thanks to the local council filling holes with complete incompetents ... one of those smooth rides has just become horrible ... really want a fat bike for it ... bet you can find as many a rough ride over here ... just depends which part of the country you're in.

My point was though I didn't want the limitation when it's not necessary as there are alternatives that offer better choice in terms of tyre width ... and probably have hydraulic as opposed to the Specialized's mechanical brake options for the same money.