katsup

I am looking at both the Sequoia (base model) and Renegade Expat as a possible next bike. Other than the Expat having a carbon fork and being $150 less are there any big differences that I am missing. Chances are slim I will find either of these bikes in my size (61cm) so it is unlikely I'd be able to test ride.

The bike will be used for commuting, road, fireroads, gravel and maybe touring one day.

Specialized Sequoia
Jamis Renegade Expat

I am also open to other steel gravel bike suggestions that I should be considering, such as the Fairdale Weekender Drop, but I haven't researched it as much.

Wilfred Laurier

The Renegade has Tiagra while the Sequoia has Sora (one step down in terms of quality) components.

The Renegade geometry looks like it would be a bit more upright, And it has a slightly lower BB.

On paper the Renegade sure looks like a better deal, but if the minor differences in geometry are closer to your ideal with the Seqoia then that is the one I would go with. Otherwise the Renegade is the better bike. But not by much.

thehammerdog

Road bike action just had a review of the Janis looks like a great bike..

mstateglfr 

Jamis has a taller stack, slightly shorter reach, Tiagra components, a higher level crank, and carbon fork. All for less $.

The Specialized has better all around gearing. Much better, actually. And Sora is nothing to turn your nose at. The only downside to the Specialized drivetrain is 9 speeds over 25t cassette difference (11-36) is larger jumps between gears.


I loathe Specialized and would say Jamis for sure if both are comfortable, but boy that Specialized's gearing is solid. 48-32t double? Nice.

katsup

Thank you for the replies. I know a carbon fork is better, but part of me wants the worry free cr-mo fork. Is a carbon fork that much better than a cr-mo fork? I have had both on a hybrid, but really could not much of a difference.

Components can be replaced so I am mostly worried about comfort and frame quality. I may have to increase my radius and call around with my fingers crossed that a shop has the bike in my size.

mstateglfr 

My gravel bike has a cromoly fork. Actually, every bike i have has a cromoly fork.
I cant say a carbon fork is better. I mentioned it as a plus since many (most?) others value weight savings and a carbon fork.


Each has legitimate positives in my view. And no real negatives for either. I would want to try each out for fit and go with whichever was the most comfortable. If both are comfortable, then wheels would be next. Which has the better wheelset. If thsts equal or unknown, then looks and color.

Each has some cool positives for sure.

katsup

Thanks, I am not concerned about weight as long as the total weight is reasonable.

I'll probably have to wait awhile to try out the Sequoia. Of the Specialized shops I have visited, I have known more about the bike than the workers. I also see comments from people here who have ordered one and still on the wait list.

12strings

I agree on the Sequoia gearing... a 32 front ring with a 36 large coz makes a Very easy climbs bing gear....

BUT, 34 FRONT/ 32 REAR (Renegade lowest gear). Is STILL way easier than most road bikes come with, and I'd be shocked if that Tiara rear derailleur couldn't actually handle a larger cassette, at least getting the big cog to 34...

side_FX

I had to laugh when I saw this. A few weeks ago I walked into my local Specialized shop and was asking if they had any Sequoias in stock. The little stoner punk just giggled at me and said they haven't had that model in years. I had to explain to him that it was reintroduced for 2017. He then logs in to the Specializedd website and was like...oh, wow. there it is. You would think if you worked in the shop, you should know your product line, no?

katsup

The last shop I visited the guy thought the Sequoia was a flat bar 26in and said that they do not carry 26in in stock. I can understand them not knowing about new models until they get one in stock, but you'd think their would be newsletters with the new bikes being released and the differences.

cs1

I have to believe part of difference in price is because Specialized can get it. They are a much better known brand and just demand a higher price whether we like it or not. Personally I like the Jamis better.

mstateglfr 

For sure. The Specialized has a lower level drivetrain and costs more. There is nothing proprietary, revolutionary, or advanced about the bike yet it costs more for less. The only difference is the name on the downtube...and for me that makes it worth even less.


...i am not knocking the bike even though i say nothing is advanced or revolutionary. Not every bike needs to be or even should try to be category changing. Its a very solid spec'd bike and would probably be a lot of fun to ride, its just a lot less value for the cost.

katsup

I tried calling the ~12 Jamis dealers within 100 miles of me and the largest size that was in stock was a 56cm (2 sizes too small). I hate the idea of ordering without trying so I'll give it some time and hopefully something changes. The best idea I have at the moment is having someone I trust, who is shorter, test ride and tell me how it is.

Thank you for all the comments, I am leaning toward the Jamis.

dgodave

Tire clearance
Spec: 45 per bikepacking review (comes with 42)
Jamis: 40 per Jamis website (comes with 36)

For me, more is better.

12strings

I think I read somewhere that the Giant revolt has room for 50mm tires...makes me want to give it a try.

Scarbo

Why do you say this? I've never had a Specialized nor do I know very much about the brand except that it is ubiquitous. I'm just curious because I've noticed more than one negative comment about the brand.

mstateglfr 

Many who dislike Specialized will reference the case where the comapny legally went after a coffee shop in Canada for using the word Roubaix when Specialized apparently pays Fuji for the right to even use the term on their bikes. Thats an example of why i dislike them, but not a big one. It was a dumb mistake by them, clearly.

- The pattern of litigious aggression is something i dislike.
- The brand, to me, is a poor value for the most part. Bikes cost way more than i think they should for what they cost.
- Their slogan of 'innovative or die' is just over the top. Probably 95% of what they design and sell is for recreational use. I am skeptical that a good bit of their innovation at the recreational level is anything more than marketing.
- I dont like what i have read about how they treat some shops with how theu push inventory.


I dobt think the company is evil or anything like that. I just think their products often lack value

Wilfred Laurier

In my opinion, you have it backwards. I find their products to be generally good value, but they are one of the more evil corporations in the industry.

mstateglfr 

Haha, well fair enough.

When i look at a $1000 road bike from them, many other brands are spec'd the same way for $700-800.

Are your evil views based mostly on their policiesnand practices with partner bike shops? Or what?

Wilfred Laurier

They are litigious and bullies to LBSes.
Proprietaries.

BluesDawg

cs1

I just saw the Jamis in person yesterday. A nice bike for the money to be sure. It is very solid but nothing exciting in the least. If you're after solid and not flashy this should be at the top of your list.

12strings

Just for comparison, not gravel bikes, but Entry-level, Claris-equipped road bike MSRP price comparison:

Jamis Ventura Sport - $679 (Alloy Fork)
Giant Contend 3 - $600 (Alloy fork)
Specialized Allez E5 - $750 (Carbon Fork)
Trek 1.1 - $769 (Carbon fork)
Cannondale Caad Optima - $820 (Carbon Fork)

Among the big 4 (+ Jamis, since it's in view in this thread) Seems like Specialized has about as good a value as you will find outside of PBK, Nashbar, or Bikes-direct, if you like carbon forks.

katsup

How would you guys compare the Salsa Vaya Deore to the above Sequoia and Renegade? I know there is concern as they are being sold at REI now, but it would be the cheapest of the 3, and has the best component level, since my sister works there.

As with the others, I am going to try to find one to test ride, but I am not holding my breath as there are very few Salsa dealers nearby.

mstateglfr 

What is the concern?