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Old 01-09-20, 06:33 PM
  #5726  
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Originally Posted by 700wheel
Many years ago I used Renold bicycle chains. Searches for these chains came up blanc in later years. However I just stumbled on this Renold site:
https://velo.renold.com/
Cost 250 pounds UK per chain
Has anybody used these chains and if so what are your opinions?
Opinion? this one is easy answer.

Are you top class/world class racer? that every marginal gain in 0.1-0.001 seconds could end up lose or win that your jobs (your life) relied on it? If you are in those group, I would invest in marginal gain, everything counts.

I would spent money elsewhere. 250 pounds UK per chain is obvious overly bloody price for average.
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Old 01-10-20, 06:44 AM
  #5727  
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Originally Posted by 700wheel
Many years ago I used Renold bicycle chains. Searches for these chains came up blanc in later years. However I just stumbled on this Renold site:
https://velo.renold.com/
Cost 250 pounds UK per chain
Has anybody used these chains and if so what are your opinions?
I've spent more time thinking about DT friction than most should (especially considering how slow I am)
nonetheless, my thoughts
For track you have basically two trees to follow for efficient chains

1.) Pursuiter/bunchie races - get a 3/32 drivetrain and run the newest Dura Ace 11 (until 12 speed comes out) speed chain. Either DIY wax it or use the highly efficient lube of choice (Ceramicspeed, etc) - basically just starting with this chain is most likely going to be more efficient than any 1/8 chain.

2.) (strong) Sprinter - in this case, you could very well break a 3/32 chain, so you want to stick with 1/8. Unfortunately, 1/8 tech doesn't move like 3/32 does, so not as many high tech choices. I'd steer away from the Izumi Super toughness as it's probably less efficient than less "tough" models... but most other 1/8 chains are likely very close in performance out of the box. At home/cheap, your best bet is again, stripping them of factory lube, then applying wax/efficient lube. If you want to spend more (but less than the linked chain) your next step is probably having it "ultra" precision polished. This is basically a super fine abrasive that removes imperfections in the manufacturing process. It's been used (controversially) in motor sports, and likely a fair bit in cycling as well under the radar. I wouldn't be surprised if the linked chain hadn't had something similar done.

Other options are using a hard low friction coating (like on pistons/ moving engine components) on the cog/chainring (I'm working on diy'ing it now) that should reduce friction. And of course bearings/grease etc.

But tl;dr - for most mortals, buy the chain that fits 1 or 2, then wax it and you'll be 95% of the way to what you can buy for any amount of money.
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Old 01-10-20, 11:16 AM
  #5728  
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*also forgot to mention.

Chainline, chainline chainline.
Get it perfect.
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Old 01-12-20, 07:41 PM
  #5729  
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing
I plan on transitioning to doing actual squats with free weights and a bar, but I'll ease into that. I plan on doing form squats soon, empty bar etc (from the UP UP UP thing).
Are you a sprinter or endurance rider?

I'm no expert but I believe you should be squating using a barbell right now. Leave the leg press machine alone if you have access to free weights.

There's so much technique that goes into squating. There's so many different variations and style of technique. I personally follow the philosophy of Olympic Weightlifters since the program I use has me doing clean + jerks and snatches.

You should ask yourself: Are you going to squat high bar, low bar, a** to grass, wide stance like a power lifter, or heels underneath hips or torso?

Also, learning how to properly front rack for front squats and cleans will take time and often most people have to do mobility drills or use a special bar to do front squats.

Also, about comparing yourself to others (about strength)- stop that. Strength takes a long time to develop. When you first start off your numbers will increase by a lot due to correcting bad technique, but after that... I'm afraid it's a slow grind. Also remember the strongest person in the gym doesn't equal the faster person on the velodrome.

Are you on a workout program or are you just making it up as you go?
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Old 01-13-20, 10:10 PM
  #5730  
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Originally Posted by AmahlAmahlAmahl
Are you a sprinter or endurance rider?

I'm no expert but I believe you should be squating using a barbell right now. Leave the leg press machine alone if you have access to free weights.

There's so much technique that goes into squating. There's so many different variations and style of technique. I personally follow the philosophy of Olympic Weightlifters since the program I use has me doing clean + jerks and snatches.

You should ask yourself: Are you going to squat high bar, low bar, a** to grass, wide stance like a power lifter, or heels underneath hips or torso?

Also, learning how to properly front rack for front squats and cleans will take time and often most people have to do mobility drills or use a special bar to do front squats.

Also, about comparing yourself to others (about strength)- stop that. Strength takes a long time to develop. When you first start off your numbers will increase by a lot due to correcting bad technique, but after that... I'm afraid it's a slow grind. Also remember the strongest person in the gym doesn't equal the faster person on the velodrome.

Are you on a workout program or are you just making it up as you go?
I'm definitely making it up as I go. Right now I'm lifting at the gym whenever I am not sore (seems like 2-3 days recovery), doing form squats, leg press, low row (machine), lat pull down, form deadlift, abdominal. Bench, press, pushups, and some core when I'm at home, so I tend not to do it at the gym.

I have a track bike I bought 30 years ago and that'll go on the trainer as soon as I build a rear clincher for it (rim/spokes are on the way) - I plan on using that to figure out standing starts and seeing what kind of speed/power I can put down when limited to one gear. I'm lucky in that I live on a quiet flat bit of road that goes into a 10% grade, so initially I'll do my standing starts into that hill (I might even rig together a fake start stand). I'm putting together a modern bike that should be finalized in the next couple months (I have to figure out the bars and cranks).

On squat, due to long torso and short quads, I'm thinking high bar, feet under shoulders, break parallel. I have no training in free weights so I'm not going to do any purely technical moves (clean jerk etc). It'll be pure squats. I'll do form squats for now, work on bar moving vertically, get the mechanics down, very light weights, then increase weight.

Sprinter for sure. My FTP is pretty poor, 200-220w (220w = upgrade to Cat 2 in 2010, although I downgraded in 2011 to start a family). All but one of my results are through sprints or sprint efforts. On two SRMs I can repeat 1500w peak (1700w not very repeatable), and my best long road sprints were 1100w@19s. I'm rpm limited though, in terms of applying power, so one of my next steps is to do 0-150 rpm work. I raced track in 2009, every weekday I could do. I did a 3 km pursuit and I finished about 1 minute behind the winner. I won some races, keirin (with a moto), scratch, but they were all very low key.

I'm using others as benchmarks as I figure they'll be my competition, sort of. I want to be in the ballpark.
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Old 01-14-20, 02:51 PM
  #5731  
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i wouldn't recommend practicing standing starts into a hill. you want to train application of power through a range of cadences, and that means that you need to practice rolling that gear up, topping out, and maintaining power at a high cadence. think specificity - using the hill to bring your cadence down won't help you make speed on a track bike.
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Old 01-14-20, 06:42 PM
  #5732  
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing
I'm definitely making it up as I go. Right now I'm lifting at the gym whenever I am not sore (seems like 2-3 days recovery), doing form squats, leg press, low row (machine), lat pull down, form deadlift, abdominal. Bench, press, pushups, and some core when I'm at home, so I tend not to do it at the gym.


I have a track bike I bought 30 years ago and that'll go on the trainer as soon as I build a rear clincher for it (rim/spokes are on the way) - I plan on using that to figure out standing starts and seeing what kind of speed/power I can put down when limited to one gear. I'm lucky in that I live on a quiet flat bit of road that goes into a 10% grade, so initially I'll do my standing starts into that hill (I might even rig together a fake start stand). I'm putting together a modern bike that should be finalized in the next couple months (I have to figure out the bars and cranks).


On squat, due to long torso and short quads, I'm thinking high bar, feet under shoulders, break parallel. I have no training in free weights so I'm not going to do any purely technical moves (clean jerk etc). It'll be pure squats. I'll do form squats for now, work on bar moving vertically, get the mechanics down, very light weights, then increase weight.


Sprinter for sure. My FTP is pretty poor, 200-220w (220w = upgrade to Cat 2 in 2010, although I downgraded in 2011 to start a family). All but one of my results are through sprints or sprint efforts. On two SRMs I can repeat 1500w peak (1700w not very repeatable), and my best long road sprints were 1100w@19s. I'm rpm limited though, in terms of applying power, so one of my next steps is to do 0-150 rpm work. I raced track in 2009, every weekday I could do. I did a 3 km pursuit and I finished about 1 minute behind the winner. I won some races, keirin (with a moto), scratch, but they were all very low key.


I'm using others as benchmarks as I figure they'll be my competition, sort of. I want to be in the ballpark.

Check out these videos to help out your squat:


- Find Your Squat Stance for the Olympic Squat




- Foot Pressure & Knee Movement in the Squat




- Ankle Mobility for Squats & Olympic Weightlifting



- Squat with the Hips & Knees Together

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk9hd9AhUR



I can't stress how important it is to get on a proper weight lifting program and not just "wing it". A lot of people I know swear by Starting Strength: Basic Barbell Training. You can find the book on sell, used, for around $10-20. I personally use Track Cycling Academy's weight lifting program. You shouldn't be afraid of Olympic Lifts. The Australian Cycling team practices them for a reason. There's a lot of different resources on learning the technique sand various drills you can practice. If you're ever interested in oly lifts, check out Greg Everett's Olympic Weightlifting: A Complete Guide For Athletes & Coaches. I purchased the book used for $20.00. Also, ****** has a great community for weightlifting. I hope some of this information helps you out.
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Old 01-14-20, 09:37 PM
  #5733  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk
i wouldn't recommend practicing standing starts into a hill. you want to train application of power through a range of cadences, and that means that you need to practice rolling that gear up, topping out, and maintaining power at a high cadence. think specificity - using the hill to bring your cadence down won't help you make speed on a track bike.
Thanks for this tidbit. I didn't think of the topping out part of the deal in terms of my standing starts.

More detail - there's about 200m before the hill, so I was thinking more of using the hill to slow me down rather than using the hill for resistance. I'm particularly concerned with the first 5-10 seconds of the start, where my lack of practice/experience/etc will be painfully apparent. I have to think about the high cadence power though.

I don't know where I'll be able to practice regularly on a fixed gear bike. One option I haven't explored is to get a fixed gear bike with brakes, but that's not realistic at this point.
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Old 01-14-20, 09:50 PM
  #5734  
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing
Thanks for this tidbit. I didn't think of the topping out part of the deal in terms of my standing starts.

More detail - there's about 200m before the hill, so I was thinking more of using the hill to slow me down rather than using the hill for resistance. I'm particularly concerned with the first 5-10 seconds of the start, where my lack of practice/experience/etc will be painfully apparent. I have to think about the high cadence power though.

I don't know where I'll be able to practice regularly on a fixed gear bike. One option I haven't explored is to get a fixed gear bike with brakes, but that's not realistic at this point.
Sounds fine, just shut down before the hill.
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Old 01-14-20, 10:01 PM
  #5735  
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Originally Posted by AmahlAmahlAmahl
Check out these videos to help out your squat:

(snip)

I can't stress how important it is to get on a proper weight lifting program and not just "wing it". A lot of people I know swear by Starting Strength: Basic Barbell Training. You can find the book on sell, used, for around $10-20. I personally use Track Cycling Academy's weight lifting program. You shouldn't be afraid of Olympic Lifts. The Australian Cycling team practices them for a reason. There's a lot of different resources on learning the technique sand various drills you can practice. If you're ever interested in oly lifts, check out Greg Everett's Olympic Weightlifting: A Complete Guide For Athletes & Coaches. I purchased the book used for $20.00. Also, ****** has a great community for weightlifting. I hope some of this information helps you out.
Good Lord. Thanks for these. I have studying to do.
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Old 01-15-20, 06:28 AM
  #5736  
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing
Thanks for this tidbit. I didn't think of the topping out part of the deal in terms of my standing starts.

More detail - there's about 200m before the hill, so I was thinking more of using the hill to slow me down rather than using the hill for resistance. I'm particularly concerned with the first 5-10 seconds of the start, where my lack of practice/experience/etc will be painfully apparent. I have to think about the high cadence power though.

I don't know where I'll be able to practice regularly on a fixed gear bike. One option I haven't explored is to get a fixed gear bike with brakes, but that's not realistic at this point.
Gotcha. Yeah, for sprint or speed work a lot of coaches say "stop before you bog down" - and a hill bogs you down. But using it just to slow down is okay.

You can throw on any old 1 1/8" road fork with a front brake for road work. Though honestly if you find yourself a nice long quiet stretch of road with no intersections, you might find yourself perfectly comfortable brakeless.
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Old 01-15-20, 07:20 AM
  #5737  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk
Gotcha. Yeah, for sprint or speed work a lot of coaches say "stop before you bog down" - and a hill bogs you down. But using it just to slow down is okay.

You can throw on any old 1 1/8" road fork with a front brake for road work. Though honestly if you find yourself a nice long quiet stretch of road with no intersections, you might find yourself perfectly comfortable brakeless.
But use a lockring.

Not many things scarier when the cog comes loose from back pedaling out on a road with traffic and stop signs.
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Old 01-15-20, 09:10 AM
  #5738  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk
You can throw on any old 1 1/8" road fork with a front brake for road work.
This is so easy it hadn't dawned on me. My original track bike was a threaded headset, I have no extra forks, etc. The new one is not as complicated.
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Old 01-15-20, 10:00 AM
  #5739  
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing
…………………………………...

I don't know where I'll be able to practice regularly on a fixed gear bike. ...…………………………....
It's a long shot but have you asked Simsbury airport if you could use their runway during off hours?

When I lived in LA I used my companies parking lots for fixed gear riding.
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Old 01-15-20, 10:05 AM
  #5740  
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Just purchased me a Ross Mt. Whitney (I think that is the model). Here is the serial # R4GO341 and I am wondering if anyone could lead me to a website of serial #'s for this bike. Would like to have the interpretation of the numbers.
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Old 01-15-20, 11:38 AM
  #5741  
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing
This is so easy it hadn't dawned on me. My original track bike was a threaded headset, I have no extra forks, etc. The new one is not as complicated.
yup! bet you even have something in your garage/basement that can work. rake might not be perfect, but it's close enough for rock and roll. and a brake lever's easy enough, too - you can either have a training handlebar setup with a dedicated brake lever, or put a crosstop lever on your bars (either on the drops or on the tops), since those tend to have hinged bands that you can add/remove without messing with your bar tape. for bars with aero or oversized tops, on which you can't mount a lever, i've seen people train with a crosstop lever in their drops just above their tape or grip. ugly but gets the job done.
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Old 01-15-20, 07:28 PM
  #5742  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk
yup! bet you even have something in your garage/basement that can work...
To piggyback on this comment.

I was really proud of my standing start as I felt it was where I excelled. (I've told this story before). After training under the guy who is arguably the best U.S. Masters Man1 in recent history, Kirk Whiteman, I started training my starts (as well as other efforts) on CycleOps spin bikes in my home as he does with his athletes in his spin studio (I trained there, too). When configured with the right level of friction, they simulate perfectly the forces of a standing start. I've poured just under 2200W into them before. It's perfect for various types of training for the track.

I highly recommend that any athlete that is gonna be in the sport for a few years invest in one. This eliminates any excuse about getting time on the bike. You can do any effort from 10s standing start efforts to "Netflix and spin" fat-burning rides as you watch a movie.

I've built 3 of them over the years and never paid more than like $400 for a used one (gym surplus or some guy who bought one from a bike shop and never used it). And they all had power meters on them.

They are like Wattbikes before Wattbike existed...and are less expensive new and easier to find used in the USA.
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Old 01-15-20, 08:41 PM
  #5743  
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Originally Posted by carleton
To piggyback on this comment.

I was really proud of my standing start as I felt it was where I excelled. (I've told this story before). After training under the guy who is arguably the best U.S. Masters Man1 in recent history, Kirk Whiteman, I started training my starts (as well as other efforts) on CycleOps spin bikes in my home as he does with his athletes in his spin studio (I trained there, too). When configured with the right level of friction, they simulate perfectly the forces of a standing start. I've poured just under 2200W into them before. It's perfect for various types of training for the track.

I highly recommend that any athlete that is gonna be in the sport for a few years invest in one. This eliminates any excuse about getting time on the bike. You can do any effort from 10s standing start efforts to "Netflix and spin" fat-burning rides as you watch a movie.

I've built 3 of them over the years and never paid more than like $400 for a used one (gym surplus or some guy who bought one from a bike shop and never used it). And they all had power meters on them.

They are like Wattbikes before Wattbike existed...and are less expensive new and easier to find used in the USA.
Huh.

Perusing Craigslist, Marketplace...

*edit there is a place selling 15 of them a couple towns over. $550. Jeepers.

Last edited by carpediemracing; 01-15-20 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 01-16-20, 05:18 AM
  #5744  
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing
Huh.

Perusing Craigslist, Marketplace...

*edit there is a place selling 15 of them a couple towns over. $550. Jeepers.
Told you.

...and they'd probably accept less than $550 for one.
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Old 01-16-20, 06:14 AM
  #5745  
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One note on CycleOps bikes: The early ones were fixed gear. They moved to freewheel in the past few years. You can convert the freewheel to fixed gear with a kit from CycleOps.
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Old 01-16-20, 09:42 AM
  #5746  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro
But use a lockring.

Not many things scarier when the cog comes loose from back pedaling out on a road with traffic and stop signs.
I've backed a cog on the track exactly once (I don't remember now if I forgot to put a lock-ring on or was in a rush and intentionally skipped it), and that was unsettling enough. Imagining it on the open road is pretty terrifying.
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Old 01-16-20, 01:50 PM
  #5747  
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Originally Posted by 700wheel
It's a long shot but have you asked Simsbury airport if you could use their runway during off hours?

When I lived in LA I used my companies parking lots for fixed gear riding.
Ha I didn't ask, but I live about half mile away from it in a straight line. Based on having a brake I figure Rentschler Field would be one spot. Even the road next to Simsbury airport, although there's traffic. Rails to Trails, but any off road excursions would be terrible due to poison ivy everywhere. Driveway to Amazon is really long. Etc.
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Old 01-17-20, 07:35 AM
  #5748  
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There's a very large office park near me. I frequently drive there with the track bike to do various workouts. It's pretty much dead on the weekends. The biggest challenge I face there is deer.
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Old 01-17-20, 12:47 PM
  #5749  
700wheel
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Shoe Insoles

I came across a YouTube video touting carbon insoles claiming they increase performance.
Are any of you using these and if so what is your perception?

I'm curious because started using Specialized Body Geometry Blue (++) insoles after a recent bike fit to better align my legs.
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Old 01-17-20, 12:50 PM
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I have them. I have custom shoes because my feet are so wide at the toe box, but narrow at the heels. There is a rather thin pad over the carbon, but it's not much padding.

I really like them.

I can't say whether they improve performance, but they certain improve my comfort, which should help performance.
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