IronHorseRiderX

I wonder what it will take to train and compete at Masters World Championships 2017 in October next year.
It would be Men 40-44 group for me and I'm planning to do individual pursuit event (3k).
My track experience is limited to two novice sessions and currently I'm cat 3 roadie.
Do not have track bike either.
I live about 25min drive from Hellyer in San Jose and realistically can only do one session a week at the actual velodrome.
What it takes to be competitive and where should I start.
My current 5min power is 385w at 67kg, 1h FTP 305w.

carleton

Hi and welcome to the forum.

To put things into perspective (and a reality check), the 35-39 and 40-44 age groups are the fastest of all. Elite fast. Riders that do well in those groups are often CAT1/CAT2 and compete against elites regularly. You will often see them at Elite track nationals. Many of them have been racing track (among other disciplines) for several years.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't try. You should. But, understand that you have a lot of competition.

Being a CAT3 roadie is good. It does show that you've put in a lot of hard work and you have some legs.

carleton

To see what's up, go through USA Cycling's results for the past 2 or 3 Masters Nationals to see what kinds of times were posted in the time trials that you are interested in. Pay attention to the top 3 results. That's where the speed is. That will give you an idea of what kinds of times to expect at worlds...except Worlds will be even faster

gl98115

It took a sub 3:30 time to medal in 2015.

IronHorseRiderX

All - thank you for info!

I did some google foo and found 2015 results
https://www.cyclingmasters.com/site/i...lts%20Book.pdf starting from page 6
Here's strava https://www.strava.com/activities/406494695
Dean's Masters Track Worlds Report - World Champion 40-44 3k Pursuit! - Fit Werx

My plan so far is try to do first 3K effort and see where I'm.
Hopefully can get close to 4min
Bike Calculator says it can be done with my current wattage / weight

The only reason why I'm thinking of doing that is that my buddy and riding partner / mentor has some serious track background and planning to go to LA and so saying I should try as well.
So by bar is pretty low, not to be last I guess

brawlo

It's in your home country, so why not have a go and see how good you can do. From what I hear, it's as much about meeting and catching up with other riders and the associated holiday(if you travel) as the racing. Really, there's only a few genuine medal chancers that turn up, and on top of that, it all depends on who turns up on the day. The experience will be well worth it

Dalai

Second what brawlo said. I competed in the Sydney World Masters Track Champs in 2009 after just one year racing on the track. Was a great experience!

carleton

I raced my first Masters Track Nationals 5 months after I started on the track. My coach sent me. He didn't send me there to win, he sent me there to see and experience. Because, once you go to the "big show", every other show seems like small potatoes and you aren't so nervous. And then when you do go back to the big show for your 2nd time, to try to win, you aren't nervous and can focus on what needs to be done.

There are so many little things that you have to deal with that you never know until you do it:

- Traveling with bike equipment. Packing it. Dealing with airlines.
- What do you bring? What's not necessary?
- Setting up a "camp" in the infield for a week.
- Hotels with bike equipment
- Getting to the track on time
- The track not being open for free warmup. Gotta learn to use rollers to warmup for your biggest kilo of the year, can't do any standing starts. Flying 100m jumps at full speed? NOPE.
- Learning how to warmup with 50 people on the track.
- Bike check
- What to do during the 3 hours after they close the track for warmups and when your event starts.

It's a lot to think about.

Oh, and in LA, you have to go outside to pee

tobukog

Those numbers aren't bad. The FTP is a little low. 385w at 67kg is 5.75w/kg, which isn't bad for a Master's endurance rider -- is really within the medals at Master's Nationals -- but it's hard to say without data on aerodynamics. In addition, it's not just about numbers: there's so much more to track riding than FTP and x minute MMP.

I suggest that you start going to Hellyer and do their weekly Wednesday (still?) or Friday night races. Do some weekend sessions and learn to ride a tight line on aerobars. If you find it hard on the 22? degrees at Hellyer, the turns and compression down South will be challenge.

Poppit

BTW, 550 riders from 31 countries have entered the Worlds this year, should be fun.

Racer Ex 

Step One: Make those weekly trips to Hellyer. Ride a lot of practice 3k's.
Step Two: Go get certified at Carson. It's a whole different animal and before you go hit up those of us who have a lot of time there for pointers.
Step Three: Ride some 3k's at Carson. It's much different than pursuiting at Hellyer.
Step Four: Go to Nats.

The reality of riding a 3k is that a lot of other things besides 4 min power matter. Aerodynamics (huge), executing a standing start, pacing, ability to hold a line, power in the pursuit position among them. Your 5 minute on a road bike is just an indicator of potential and your FTP is irrelevant. Weight is irrelevant as well.

FWIW at Elite Nats in 2011 at Carson my 3k split was 3:38 at 375w doing the 4k. I've got stupidly good aero numbers BTW. Obviously I would have paced faster and thrown out a bigger effort on a 3k, but that gives you some ballpark. And I was 51. The 40-44 guys will be pushing close to or over 500w.

A podium at Nats is damn hard. A podium at worlds is absurdly hard. It's actually a lot more fun if you just go without expectations and ride your best.

queerpunk

Some people pee in bottles in the changing rooms, which would ALMOST be a tolerable "no harm no foul" situation except the uncivilized jerks LEFT THE BOTTLES.

Ugh.

carleton

Wow. I had no idea that that happens.

You would think that by now they would have built some facilities in the infield. I mean, what about the people playing volleyball and lifting weights, too?

Has someone ever explained why there are no restrooms in the infield? Is it a building code thing or some logistical matter?

700wheel

It has been around a dozen years since I last rode there. I recall that one could go down stairs/ramp (around the 100 meter zone) then follow signs to the toilets. But I could be wrong.

Racer Ex 

Physics. The infield is below ground level which means you'd need specialized sewage pumps to push **** uphill. That's actually a lot of cost and maintenance. I know this because I worked for a few years at a wastewater treatment plant. And the same jerks that would leave pee bottles in the changing rooms would flush stuff down that would clog the pumps. Don't ask, you'd be hideously amazed at what people stuff down toilets.

They used to have Porto's just outside the downstairs entrance, but those got removed a few years ago.

carleton

Ah! Thanks for the explanation!

Would it be reasonable to install Porto's inside or does that present a ventilation issue? Any other options, temporary or not?

I'm pretty sure I don't have to solve this problem. But, it's one that has perplexed racers for years who go there. It's a world-class facility with this awkward problem.

Leaving the infield to "go" isn't unusual.

For those who don't know, if you are in the infield and need to "go", you have to exit the velodrome through the tunnel to the back of the facility (outside), then walk uphill around the building to the front, enter the main entrance, then walk 3/4 the length of the facility (inside) to the public restrooms. It's a really long way.

Racer Ex 

Think about full Porto potties in an enclosed space. Aside from the stench you'd be off gassing at lot of methane.

Not sure why they removed the outdoor ones. I recall some sort of explanation when I asked, but it didn't register.

It is a PIA to do the hike, especially if you're old with a nervous bladder pre race.

queerpunk

Last summer, for Nats, there was a big line of Portapotties just outside that back entrance to the infield. So it was a really, really short walk to pee (which made other people's abandoned piss bottles extra awful). They also had those little hand-washing stations.

Leaving the infield to pee isn't the biggest matter.... but not having running water is a tough one. One of the things I love about Indy is the spigot in the athlete's area on the infield. It's something that very few tracks have.

rensho3

It is my understanding that a decision was made during construction to save some money by not including infield toilets. I bet, however, if LA gets the 2024 Olympics, this will get remedied. When I read the bid book, and also from other sources, major renovations will be made to the velodrome, such as putting on a new roof that eliminates the two pillars, toilets in the infield for security reasons (won't require the atheletes to go into the public spaces), etc. Who knows, it might actual happen!

Poppit

Unbelievable, we've got a drinks fountain on the D and numerous toilets within a 10 second walk. 'Leader of the free world' and no toilets, shocking!

carleton

"We pushed hard to win the bid to host the Olympics...to get bathrooms in the infield."

queerpunk

Yeah, I heard something similar. That the initial plan was a $25million facility but it wound up getting built for $10 million. Or something along those lines.

700wheel

[QUOTE=carleton;19076844].................Would it be reasonable to install Porto's inside or does that present a ventilation issue? [QUOTE]

UCI requires zero blockage between officials and the track. Hence the concern over the two roof support poles (I can't believe LA could not get a waiver for 2024).

The physics (as explained above) is why the Boulder Valley Velodrome infield toilets are not lower (and of course violate a UCI rule).

Dalai

Be glad you have an indoor track!

I've raced at 3 indoor velodromes (all in Australia - 7th currently being built in Queensland) and none have toilets in the infield.

rensho3

I am very, very glad to have an indoor velodrome--It was 100 degrees yesterday outside. Besides, track management put porta potties just outside the door to the infield. If I were to put a stopwatch on the trip from Carson's infield to the toilet compared to the same trip at Manchester, I bet they would be very close.


Even when training, it's not that big a deal. I'm old, and thus have to make more trips up to the upper deck than a youngster, but I am often glad of the chance to take a few minutes to rest. Also, due to the controlled humidity of the inside air, the problem is not de-hydrating upstairs, but drinking enough to prevent dehydration, if you get my drift.