Miele Man

BUT... My MTBs with their quick-release wheels and rim brakes are NOT obsolete. As a matter of fact I've had people on the rail-trails around here ask me if I wanted to sell the MTB I was riding. They wanted it because it was a rigid frame and rigid forks. Apparently around here a lot of people want that type of frameset.

Cheers

Wilfred Laurier

Miele Man Obsolete != undesirable. What I meant was that new ones are not being made and parts are getting harder to find. Like I said, I have some 'vintage' bikes too - I know. Hence why people would have to resort to accosting people on the trail to try to get one. If it were not obsolete then it could be purchased new in a store.

Drew Eckhardt 

I've replaced up to three in a 9 month window. Getting back in shape I broke two in 2019, the first in March and second in November.

It's not abnormal if you shift a lot and use modern levers with under bar tape routing with the required 90 degree guide causing fatigue failure in half the shifts.

Shimano suggests a 2500 mile replacement interval for Dura Ace 9001 levers which is every three months when you ride 200 miles a week.

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...s-fraying.html
Campagnolo cables fray every 2000 miles

https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...e-shimano.html
Shimano cables need changing every 2000 miles

Another 6700 setup that breaks cables in 2500-3000 miles

5800 shredded in 3000 miles

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...l#post21134710
broken in 3.5 - 4k miles

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...able-life.html
two broken cables in 4000 miles

https://weightweenies.starbike.com/f...28295&start=30
broke in 4000 miles
fail in 2400 - 3000 miles every 3-4 months
broke in 3600 miles
broke in 1500 miles, Shimano said the recommended replacement interval is 2500 miles
failed in just under 4000 miles

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...n-problem.html
broke in 3800 and 4400 miles

dedhed

Here they say yearly
https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/infor...rake-pads.html

Andrew R Stewart 

Every shop I've been in (since brifters came out) has had at least one customer who breaks their shift cables far more frequently then the rest. Whether it's from shifting so often or so many miles or how they use the shifter it almost doesn't really matter.

I do agree that so many riders are fairly clueless about how to take care of your bike. (I teach bike repair clinics for our local club). Who's fault is that? I don't know. I do know that the new bike pick up speech we do would grow a lot if we tried to explain every possible future. We do offer free bike clinics on Saturdays that cover, amongst other topics, shifting and maintenance. Andy (Who has replaced many cables under "warranty" because it's an easy and quick way to make a customer happy for so little, whether the problem was even cable related)

Russ Roth

I would suspect its that some are more prone then others within a model range and those are just a defective lever. I currently maintain 2 tiagra 4700, a force, a rival, microshift r10, and 105 equipped and none of these bikes exhibit any issue with fraying cables. My wife's trek was bought with a full 105 group and since the summer we bought it I'd repaired at least a dozen 105 levers with the same issue I just swapped it to Rival when her cable frayed after only a month. The fact that not every lever exhibits the issue would suggest there's more of a tolerance issue or defect problem and they're claiming a schedule to cover themselves. It is still less then a year and if the lever doesn't work it should be shimano's issue and not the customers. If they don't like that then they should design a better product. And paying an extra couple grand to go electronic is not the solution.

It comes down to how much should they need to know. It's like a car, every couple months you pop the hood and make sure the fluids are fine and let the mechanic tell you what's on the schedule for the mileage you have. Was always a simple matter of telling them to bring it in every winter or spring and we'll have the bike done for you just air up the tires every week. If someone wants to know more then that then its their business, if they want to fix their own stuff they can as they want, but mechanics exist since the average person can't, and isn't equipped, to deal with their own stuff. How many other shop techs have you met that don't fully know what they're doing, they can do a basic tune but anything involving new parts or real diagnosing gets by them, I've been in shops where we had to move them to strictly sales and only let them do a quick flat; not everyone has mechanical aptitude.

Wilfred Laurier

https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/um/UM-07X0A-004-ENG.pdf

I looked at the user's manual for both the cable brake and hydraulic brake versions of 10f STI levers, and there is no mention of 6 month or any arbitrary mileage cable replacement intervals. There is a note that 'regular wear and aging are not covered under warranty,' but failure after a few months on a road bike with, presumably, the OEM Shimano cables and housing that are included with new Shimano shift levers, would not in any reasonable person's view constitute 'regular wear or aging'. Get the shifters sent back to Shimano and they should replace.

However, your description of the problem sounds like it may not have been the frayed cable itself that caused the failure, but the shop's attempts at removing it. If Shimano denies the warranty claim this should totally be up to the shop to fix. Especially if the shop sold you the bike... most new bike sales, in my experience, come with a shop labour warranty of at least one year, usually to cover break-in related items like cable 'stretch', but also to weed out faulty products that may have not been noticed on assembly.

base2 

Wow. In reading this thread, I'm surprised that any one of the 20 or so bikes that have filtered through my stable (hobby/gifts/donations, etc...) have faired well at all.

1 single bike with 1 single frayed cable that got a "rough" feel at 4000 miles.

From the sound of it, it's a miracle the whole stable hasn't assploded in a mass conflageration of horror.

From now on, I'll consider myself one lucky soul, indeed.

Wilfred Laurier

Those guidelines say that fresh cables and housing are recommended annually to ensure you can 'execute the perfect shift'. They do not say that failure to change cables every six months will result in ruined shifters and a voided warranty.

Koyote

I'm curious to know if BenBoozer has been back to his shop - and if so, whether they have accommodated him. I hope he will come back to update this thread.

BenBoozer

Hello and yes I am back to report with good news. About a week after I went to the shop and requested that they file a warranty claim on the shifter, the mechanic called me and stated he took another "real good" look at it and found the strand of wire that was fouling it. I picked up the bike a couple days ago and just ran it through a test ride. Shifting perfectly. Total cost: $25.00 for shifter maintenance or something like that. I know now to have those cables inspected on like an 8 month schedule.

AnkleWork

Funny how that works, but not "ha-ha" funny.

Koyote

I guess it’s easier to do the repair properly than to do the warranty claim with Shimano.

dedhed

Methinks it's time to find a new shop

02Giant 

Does this issue tend to follow Shimano cables more-so than competitors cables?

ThermionicScott 

Maybe, but after this practice they might be a little better at servicing it next time.

Meanwhile, I'm thinking I may go with bar-ends if I ever decide to get shifters on my handlebars...

Racing Dan

Except, Im betting its a JAG wire. Few bikes get oem shimano cables, but shimano always gets the blame, even if the bike is in reality equipped with JAG, KMC, FSA, Praxis ect ...

Wilfred Laurier

My experience from assembling bikes for a small manufacturer is that the OEM shifters come with cable already installed.

However, even if they were from another maker, it is definitely a problem with Shimano shifters from the last decade or so that have a consistent problem with cable fraying and breaking. Prior to routing all the cables under the bar tape, cables would outlive just about every other part of the bike.

Racing Dan

You said, shimano parts have a two year warranty. That may be true, except if they are not actually shimano parts or the failure in the shimano part was caused by a non shimano part. - a fraying non shimano cable. Then its the bike manufacturer or the shop that build the bike, not shimano, that should cover it.

You may think shimano shifters have issues. I on the other hand think lots of issues (fraying cables, dropped chains, poor braking, rough lever feel, ect.) are caused by bike manufacturers cutting corners, speccing all sorts of parts to cut cost or to differentiate in the market.

AnkleWork

Lots of misconceptions about contracts and warranties. Apparently, the OP has a contractual relationship with the retailer. That contract includes express and implied warranties. The OP probably has a contractual relationship with Trek via their express warranty -- a term of sale, and probably does not have a contractual relationship with Shimano. Shimano may provide warranty coverage via their relationship with Trek.

Said repair should have been fully covered by any or all of the above. I would not have paid $0.25 let alone $25. Because consumers frequently lack knowledge of contract law they are easily deceived.

rm -rf

A steel cable that's flexed around the pretty small bend in the shifter body will have a limited life.

My Campagnolo 10 speed Veloce had breakage. I broke shift cables twice in 20,000 miles, each with fairly low mileage, somewhere between 2500 and 4000 miles. Each time, I didn't notice any symptoms before the ride where the cable broke. I noticed some sloppy shifting (like the OP mentioned), thinking I'd want to adjust the derailleur when I got home. Then a missed shift, where I needed to shift once more and shift back to move the chain. (The cable was really frayed by this point!) Then within an hour, snap!

I do shift a lot. I'll often shift for just a couple of pedal strokes, then shift again. Rolling hills get the most shifts.

Campagnolo has a little window in the shifter where the cable makes it's 90 degree turn. So it's possible to fold back the hood and check it for fraying. I don't know about Shimano shifters.

~~~~
Di2
Wow, low maintenance! And I shift even more often now. It's effortless, fast, and precise.
I just checked over my Ultegra Di2 this month. I got it on a new bike in Sept 2014. I have 20,000 miles or a little more on the bike.

I still have the original seatpost battery. I expected it wouldn't hold a charge too long after all the this time, but it's still serviceable. Maybe a new one this year. I'll make a note of when I charge to see if the time period is dropping from the original 800-1000 miles or so. (I try to charge soon when it drops below 50%, the solid green light.)

The rear derailleur pivots aren't worn -- the shifter has no sloppy play when I wiggle the body or the pulley arm. And the shifting is still great.
I removed the pulleys, expecting to need new ones. The bottom one is perfect, the top one didn't spin quite as freely. A drop of oil helped. But I'm putting new pulleys in anyway. Di2 has it's own pulley part number. Around $20.
Front derailleur is fine. Shifters are fine. Shift buttons work as new. Even the rubber hoods have minimal wear.

I've micro adjusted the rear derailleur shift centering maybe 4 or 5 times. It's simple, just hold the junction button for 5 seconds, then each shifter click adjusts the derailleur a tiny amount in that shift direction. Fast and easy.

Drew Eckhardt 

No.

The problem is that a bend radius under 1" or pulley diameter under 2" is smaller than mechanical engineering guidelines allow for 0.047" (1.2mm) wire rope, and shifters don't have that much room inside.

Regardless of what brand you buy, you'll get 304 stainless steel plus strain hardening from the die drawing process failing after a similar number of stress cycles.

If you want different life you'll need to change the material. KCNC makes titanium shift cables. Power Cordz are made of polymer fiber.

Alternatively, you can upgrade to electronic shifting.

2manybikes

Do you have any experience with either of those cables? What would you expect to happen with them? There must be something similar to what you said about diameter and materials specs for Ti or polymer cables?

Russ Roth

I think some of it just comes down to manufacturing tolerances and things being left too rough or imprecise with the occasional shifter that causes the problem. I've got a set of rx100 shifters that has used the same cable for years. Ultegra with cables that are on their third, maybe fourth year, Tiagra that have a couple year old cables. But the 105s on my wife's bike that we ditched after the first frayed cable the cable broke after only a couple months and she doesn't ride as much as I do. Most of the people I'd helped with the problem hadn't experienced the problem with their other or older bikes suggesting it isn't them. Like I did for my wife, if a shifter frays a cable I'd just get rid of that one since all the shimano sti levers I have running in this house suggests its not a larger issue.

jmess

I have had two RD cable fray issues with Shimano 9000 and 6800. Both times I was able to fish the cable ends out of the shifter. One cable broke and another I had to cut. In both case I had to remove the shifter and spend a lot of time with some dental type pic tools to get the cable end out. I have started to put silicon grease in the track inside the shifter that the cable runs through in an attempt to reduce the friction on the cable. Time will tell if this really makes any difference.