TheDudeIsHere

EXACTLY! Where these guy throw in all that extra nonsense, I don't know.

You know as well, new guy needs to develop his legs a bit before wasting his money on equipment he doesn't need because of a few nonsense posters. Give a chance first!

TheDudeIsHere

Wow, you are really lost.

Why is it that others have the ability to understand what I am saying.

Try to pay attention. I never said somebody should not do hills. I am saying give your legs a chance to develop before deciding to upgrade to equipment that you will likely soon outgrow.

A NEW rider, pay attention, NEW RIDER will quickly develop his legs to a higher level just riding his bike and putting in a little effort. Increase mileage 15%, increase attempts climbing a hill (nobody says you have to make it the first time or every time). I had the same set up as the OP when I started on a hybrid. I thought it would be out of reach to do the hills. I kept at it, didn't waste money on equipment that I would outgrow in a couple of months.

I rode flats, I rode as much distance that was wise, I did short hill repeats, I increased effort and a couple months later, the hills were no problem ON THE SAME GEARING THAT CAME ON MY BIKE.

Had it been a 39/25, then heck yeah, change it by all means but the gearing he has is enough to get any rider up a hill that has some miles in his legs.

If he decides later that he is still unable to get up the hill, then go for it. But don't waste money and time on a new set up right out of the gate.

TheDudeIsHere

That is great! New rider! Keep increasing the distance if you can. I am in no way degrading your cycling but those are as you say, NEW RIDER stats. NOBODY BUT NOBODY would expect you to make it up hills at this point. Yes, you can waste your money on unnecessary equipment but in my opinion, once you get to 30 mile rides, I'm guessing your legs will be developed much more and you will not need to waste money on getting up most hills you encounter.

Take me for example! I ride my bike up a 4,000 ft climb just lollygagging around. Some forum members have seen me and know what I am talking about. I am not in the shape I was a few years ago. I am up and down over the last 23 years. So I am doing the climb, taking my time, no rush, no worries, just having fun. AND I am not a NEW Rider. My fitness level drops so I can not climb as fast and not at my best.

BUT! Every couple, few years, I get the itch to do a timed event. I concentrate on training. Then I WORK MYSELF UP TO 7,000 ft training rides. I have re developed my legs, I have made them stronger, I can do bigger rides on BIGGER gears than normal. I fart around on a triple having fun climbing the mountains. When I get serious, I drop weight, train and then do 10,000 - 12,000 ft timed events on a standard double (53/39 front rings and 12/26 cassette in the rear) Can I do that just farting around? No but put some training time in and yeah, no problem

Same with a new rider. Develop your legs, ride and train smart. You will develop, you will be stronger,and your equipment will be more than enough for you. Though you are a NEW RIDER, this is like training for you. Please, don't waste your money yet. What these guys are talking about depriving you of beautiful wonderful views in the mountains, I have no idea where they come up with this stuff. You are not at that level yet and it seems with the rides you are talking about, you are nowhere near doing mountain road ride just yet, with or without the waste of money they speak of.

Put in some time in the saddle, my legs are not calling your legs weak, another stupid comment. My legs are merely telling you that as a NEW RIDER, you will develop more strength riding and doing what you can for now. Believe me, if you want to ride your bike, you will develop and get stronger.

But train smart. I say at the beginning it is cool to ride almost everyday. But remember to take a day off if your legs get fatigued. It really helps to recover. Like lifting weights, don't get stale, push yourself a little bit for better results. Do some hills, ride what you can, if you have to walk, cool! You'll get them next time. But keep riding and your legs will get stronger.

HTupolev

That may have been what you meant to say, but what you actually wrote was:

Quote:

I see the Verve has an 11/32 in the rear, I believe you have enough gears to climb a wall.

Quote:

He has great gears now and with a little natural strength building , he will be fine.

Quote:

you will outgrow

Quote:

he will develop and soon will not need those easier gears

Quote:

You can ride hills, mountains, flats, whatever you like with your gears

You weren't writing "give it some time to see if you really need it", you were saying "you will not need it."

If you meant the former, that's reasonable, and I agree that it's not bad to scope things out before making purchases, especially if your money isn't burning a hole in your pocket. I reacted strongly to your posts because what you were actually writing was the latter. And the latter is responsible for so much missed opportunity in cycling. I regularly see even very experienced cyclists avoid fun routes because of easily-resolved gearing limitations, but refuse to fix it because of the vague notion that their gearing is - per fashion and the way things are marketed - supposed to be fine for the genre of riding that they're doing.

TheDudeIsHere

Wow! The fact is as I have said many times, he is a new rider, he has enough gear, he will get stronger and it will suit him fine.

You seem to be the only one who can't comprehend the principle of developing into one's equipment.

Even the OP liked my posts but yet you're still unable to grasp the concept.

HTupolev

Yes, it is. And it contains:




In that post, the only uncertainty regarding the adequacy of the OP's current setup is your use of the word "guessing" here...

Quote:

I'm guessing it's about developing the legs as most NEW riders will.

...but this clause isn't situated to challenge the confidence of the previous statements.

TheDudeIsHere

Wow, you surely are a simpleton if you can not understand what I mean without going word by word. But I guess that doesn't matter because the OP understands the concept of what I was saying whether or not I used each and every correct word.

Here you go:

See Mark ride his bike.
See Mark is a new rider.
See Mark's gearing.
See Mark develop leg strength.
See Mark ride fine on his new bike.
See Mark ride better.
See Mark strong enough to climb hills.
See Mark save money.

If you are unable to grasp the concept, you should move on instead of looking for arguments by dissecting every word posted.

tyrion

The crank has to be 8 speed (your current one is an 8 speed, right?) I think a crank and maybe the bottom bracket is all you'll need. I'd get a 44/32/22 crank - very common. Search for "triple crankset 8 speed".

TheDudeIsHere

OK, this is what I am talking about. My wife, she was 37 (you're 50, some difference but still). Her first bike was a Specialized Crossroads with a "SR CW-XR00, 28/38/48 teeth" straight from the manual.

Rear cog 6-speed, 14 - 28 teeth

Tires 700 x 38c Specialized Nimbus II

My wife is not a skinny beanpole type, actually an Athena.

She put on a few miles and did OK. I started introducing her to small hills, then small 1/2 mile hills (5% ?). She had to put some effort into it but she started getting better.

Then I took her to the mountains. Did a mile or two. Later 5 miles, on that bike

Later 8 miles, later 13 miles later 21 miles with 5,000 ft on a bike with bigger gears.

As a new rider, she got stronger. She developed and now, she outgrew the hybrid and those gears.

After the hybrid, she rode up 8 miles 6% grade on a double crank old steel Bianchi with a 38 front ring and a 28 rear cog.

My wife had never had a bike as a child, a teen (too poor) but started in mid 30's.

She developed and now she is too strong for the gears she started with, the same exact crank you are using. Not sure about your rear cogset size.

Anyway, this is the steel bike she rode up the 8 mile mountain road. 2300 ft gain.
53/38- 11/28 cogset



This is the road she was riding up into the mountains after she developed on the bike. Now she laughs at the gears that once stumped her.




This is the first couple of miles but gives you a good idea of the road and climb she does not after having thought she couldn't ride the gears on the hybrid when she first started. Did we go buy easier gears to get her up? Nope, she gave herself a chance to grow into her bike first! If we had gone with changing the cranks, it would have been a big waste of money.





GIVE YOURSELF A CHANCE TO DEVELOP SOME CYCLING SKILLS, STRENGTH, AND ABILITY FIRST. Then decide if you need the extra gears.

We did get her a better bike after she developed some. A triple crank, little better for her than a double but still Shimano Ultegra, 30/39/52 teeth and a , 12 - 25 teeth cogset. This is the bike she used for the 5,000 ft climb and 100 mile bike ride in 6:40

But when she first started, she did some neighborhood rides then a few 10 milers where I had to actually push her back, literally. So again, give yourself some time to develop before you waste your money.

Trek Pilot 5.2

CoffeedrinkerNC

I can see both sides of this argument. For me, it's not a hardship to spend the money on getting a new crank and having it installed, then in the future have the original crank put back on. It's winter time here in NC, riding time is limited to mostly weekend, I have the standard 8 to 5 job. But, once the weather breaks, I plan to ride 10 miles in the morning, then 10 miles after work. Weekends will be longer rides

chadtrent

Didn't realize you were so close to me. I'm in Roanoke. We have a pretty active group ride that happens here. If you ever feel like a short road trip one weekend let me know.

cyccommute 

Never trained for a ride that is challenging? That's a good one! Look at my signature. Is this one enough to meet you criteria of "challenging"? Four weeks, 1100 miles, and 64,000 feet of climbing. Or this one? 5 weeks, 1500 miles and 59,000 feet of climbing. Or how about this one? 130 miles, 3 days, 12,000 feet of climbing, much of it on dirt and some if it on 25% grades on rocky roads. And, just for good measure, the steepest part was about 100 feet below 12,000 feet. Add to the level of difficulty that I was carrying everything I needed to wear, sleep in or eat with me on all of those trips.

Yea, I know a thing or two about challenges.

And there...right there, is the attitude that puts lots of people off from riding and developing into better riders as well as encourages behavior that might result in injury. They aren't "sissy gears", they are smart gears. A new rider will develop more muscle and skill if they can ride up a hill rather than avoid it because it is too hard with their current gearing. I have gears that are far lower than the ones that CoffeDrinkerNC is proposing. I use them all the time. I even seek out places where I can use them. They expand the range of places I can ride rather than limit the places I can ride.

cyccommute 

By all means, ride. But don't be afraid to change equipment to make it so that you can ride more just because some yahoo on the Internet tells you that low gears are for sissys. I assure you that I've been where you were (about 4 decades ago) but I wasn't afraid of putting lower gears on a bike if I feel that I need them. At times I may only be doing 4 mph up a hill

IMGP1727 by Stuart Black, on Flickr

with hills that are even worse ahead

IMGP1741 by Stuart Black, on Flickr

on a bike carrying gear that weighs more than it should

IMGP1691 by Stuart Black, on Flickr

but at least I'm pedaling. If I want to walk everywhere, I'd go hiking.

cyccommute 

I doubt that a bottom bracket is needed, especially if the crank is the one that was linked to by RayLee. It has the same arm profile as the OEM crank. It's not even that hard of a swap to make at home, although CoffeeDrinkerNC would need some tools. A crank puller is the only specialized tool needed and those aren't that expensive.

cyccommute 

Okay, let's look at your scenario. Most people would find doing a mile, then two, then later on 5, etc. to be highly frustrating. They would struggle for maybe the first time and, perhaps, the second time and then give up and go take up tennis or golf. Struggling up hills constantly is demotivating.

Your thinking is backwards. A new cyclist should get the lower gears (not "extra gears") in the beginning. Then build some confidence by riding up something that they would have struggled up with the OEM gearing. That way they build cycling skills, strength and ability. Riding up hills is the best way to build all of those and if you can't ride up the hill, they won't. If they feel that they have out grown the gearing or the bike as they progress, they can upgrade later on.

TheDudeIsHere

That's not a challenge, that's touring using the easiest gears you can find to make it up the mountain. I'm talking about really trying to get some speed and effort. Any half way decent rider can ride up a mountain using baby gears, I'm talking about actual training to push oneself, not a silly fun ride around a campfire cooking baked beans in a tin can.

TheDudeIsHere

Wow, you have no idea do you?

Extra gears as in extra gear inches, easier gears, something extra to help them climb. You guys are so simple! OK, higher gear for those who are not bright enough to understand a general comment without having to explain word by word.

TheDudeIsHere

You doubt, meaning you don't know. Another guessing game. I looked at a post last night from another poster who thought he knew everything. He replaced his crank, placed higher gears then ended up rubbing on his frame around the bottom bracket area. That is the problem with you guys that think you know a project will be inexpensive. Yeah, pay the mechanic, go ride your bike that some know it all on the forums suggested, then end up spending money taking it back, another trip, more money, more trying to find parts, more hassle. ll because someone who thinks he knows is doubting he will need a new bb. For the record, the dude I searched is totally on your side here and he had problems! More money, more money!

TheDudeIsHere

Yeah like I said, you know nothing about training and rely on your sissy gears.

cyccommute 

How many tours have you do, strong guy? Yea, I have gears that make it so that I can ride up hills carrying a load. I don't have a superlight bike with some one following along behind me carrying my gear.

As for the "baby gears", again, you are disparaging people who you see as "weak". I look on it as being smart. "Toughing it out" is just being dumb.

You make absolutely no sense. Lower gear inches aren't "extra gears". They are just lower gears. No one has been talking about adding gearing, only about lowering the gearing. And what is wrong with getting something to help you climb? Your whole "sissy gears" and "baby gears" comments are only meant to disparage people who you see as weak.

I "doubt" as in I'm not 100 percent sure that the existing bottom bracket will work. I'm 99% confident that it would work but, there's always that 1% chance that there is a difference. Even if there were a difference, square taper bottom brackets are cheap and not that hard to change. It probably won't need to be changed but there is a slight possibility. I'm a long time volunteer mechanic at my local co-op and have done this many, many times. I know how to do it and about what it would cost. You haven't a clue as evidenced by your previous comments.

Forum rules forbid me from using the term I really want to use. I'm not sure why anyone would take your advice considering how rude and condescending you are. You really haven't got a clue as to what you are talking about.

TheDudeIsHere

Let's just say, toughing it out is not in the equation. Smart training as in building up to being able to ride mountains without using the sissy gears like you. Let's say my training is far beyond yours. You do a few thousand feet over weeks? I do it in 7 hours. Pretty sure I can do a baked bean campfire ride no problem.

Yes, 100% not sure if the bottom bracket will work. Meaning with all this talk about inexpensive upgrades, you are talking out of your, ummm hopeful wishing well. The dude may run into extra cash down the tube because some know it all said it would be inexpensive but not 100% sure. I myself have listened to those who think they know everything only to add up in modifications so that those upgrades would work doubling the price. So a $100 project is now $200. And time waiting for the parts to arrive, even more of a set back because somebody was NOT 100% sure.

I'm using sissy gear terms because it seems to have hit a nerve with you. You figure it out!

So anyway, those several thousand feet you do over 1 week, 2, weeks, 3, whatever you were blabbering about, I do 10,000 to 12,000 ft in 7 hours.

Yeah tough guy baked bean camper, give me a couple months to train and I'll smoke you and your sissy gears on a ride. I won't tough it out, I won't injure myself, I'll train and float away from you like a butterfly riding my 53/39- 12/26 cassette.

These are not tough guy gears, or tough it out gears, they are proper training and preparation gears! Something you don't know about.

BTW, this was on a 7,000 ft gain training ride a couple weeks before a 10,000 ft timed event century. Training ride, building up to the big ride, not relying on sissy gears to get me through.

FTR, my time on the event was 7:10 minutes 100 miles, 10,000 ft of gain. It would take you and your sissy gears 2 days to get there!

230 pound rider.



As far as being rude, anybody can do a search and see how many heated debates take place under your name Mr. KnowItAll. I wonder why that is!

TheDudeIsHere

Hmm the funniest thing! If you look over this thread, I have several "LIKES" on my posts and you have.....NONE!

Edit: Wow, just got another like and you still have "O". Good thing I am rude and have no idea what I'm talking about.

I don't know what I am talking about?

cyccommute 

Yea, you could train to do the touring I do but you won't. You are about as full of beans as you think I am.

TheDudeIsHere

I "won't" because it would be really boring doing 4 mph up a hill for 3 days when I could get there in a few hours When you think about it, I do what you do, only much faster!


What I do, you couldn't. There is a difference!

Drew Eckhardt 

1. You lose 0.5% of your power output for every year past 35 assuming you maintain the same intensity in you training. The original poster is 50.

2. The average male carries 30 pounds more fat than they did in 1960 which already wasn't light for cycling. The OP has sixty pounds on top of that.

3. Training can increase maximum output 30%. The OP has none.

The OP easily needs at least 33% lower gears for weight, 25% for lack of training, and 7.5% for being 50. All together that's more than 50% which requires dropping a 34 ring to a 17 or making a 34 cog a 68.

He's not going to overcome that with a few hundred or even just a few thousand miles.

He should buy new rings and/or cogs as necessary to get the gearing he needs now.

I'd start with a crankset because that can provide more range with tighter gearing he may appreciate when he's fitter.