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2017 Scott Scale 720 Plus First ride review

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2017 Scott Scale 720 Plus First ride review

Old 11-05-16, 05:03 PM
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osco53
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2017 Scott Scale 720 Plus First ride review

Considering a Mid fat/Plus bike ? I am glad I did.
Many have read all about them In MBA and other rags by now I would think. We know they have gobs of traction and as they enter into a second or third year in the spot light we have many new bikes and most importantly new tires coming online now. Many of the big name companies missed out on the 29er craze at first. We saw them all scrambling to catch up with those bikes that we now know to be mainstream and refined to near perfection.

Then came a slower more cautious commitment to the 27.5 or 650b wheeled bike, Understandable.

Next was the Fat bike band wagon, I rode two and came away from both thinking, ‘That’s just too much tire’. But the bike companies jumped in fast not wanting to miss out. For us this meant very good fat bikes were out there.
Now we are seeing plus bikes and nobody is going to miss out now.

So how about a review from an average rider, not some super fast air junkie or ex pro anything. A quick background check.
Me: 57 years young 5’11” 170 pounds and now because of mountain biking I feel like I’m in my 30’s again. I ride central Florida so we have sugar sand in many places, one of my favorite torture sessions is thick sandy two tracks
You know the drill, ride for fun but workout on what is hardest for you, no pain no gain.
I restarted after 20 plus years off bikes with one of those first Hard Tail 29er’s that were rushed out to catch up. It was heavy, they hid that with a 3x9 drive train, The bike turned like a pig and all that but would roll over anything as long as I could hang on.
After a year I moved to a 27.5 full suspension short travel bike and was faster everywhere I rode, and far more comfortable, All the way through this two and a half year love affair I got stronger and filled my skills bag more and more. The bike was upgraded to a 1 x 11 and got really good wheels, went tubeless.

I rode two full suspension mid fat/plus bikes and became very interested so I started the research we all do about our next bike. My main goal was to get back to a hard tail now that I had some skills and the strength to get out of the bike what they are best at. I was growing tired of my full squish eating so much energy. I wanted Hard Tail efficiency and simplicity again but did not want the beating they can give when I make a mistake.
So I pulled the trigger on IMO a very well equipped Hard Tail plus bike.

My review ok: All that’s said in the magazines, all true, gobs of traction making blown out corners feel like ‘Hero’ dirt. Loved that remark, can climb anything, on and on you’ve read the articles and I have that now.
But what I did not expect was a real surprise for me.
I do the Strava thing, I do it just for me, not into racing and I stop all the time to give right away or help out a rider. I am not a Strava Racer, just like to review my progress and hook up with friends.
Just like day one on my full suspension I was riding this plus bike faster than I realized, got some PR’s on the first ride, I was very well aware of my faster cornering speeds. I was really leaning the bike way over and loving all that control.
I came out of the quads, (Flat twisty two way trails) with Personal records and I was really just into the flow and not pushing myself at all. First real ride on this bike and still making fit adjustments don't forget.

That surprise I mentioned, normally after doing half the quads I stop and catch my breath but this time I pressed on and did the 2 plus mile fire road out to the trail head. This two track is sandy in many places and I took to the softer deeper sand lines. That makes you down shift a gear or two and really get after it or you bog down…
I tied my best time that has stood for six months and felt like I had used far less energy than ever before.
It was my upper body that had remained so much more relaxed because I did not have to exert so much energy steering the bike in the quads or remaining upright plowing the sand.
My whole first ride was a short 14 mile ride with some pretty good granny gear climbs and some flowing wide open fast single track.
The added traction and ease of control and most importantly the fatter low pressure tires gave me a soft ride, for a hard tail. Unlike a regular tire'd hard tail this new mid fat tire was deforming over bumps far better and this allowed the back tire to spend more time In contact with the trail giving me more traction and control...
The Ride was very similar to my Full suspension Spark when I lock out the rear end, When I lock the shock out on the spark It limits the travel to about 40 mm so hard hits won’t blow the shock circuit. I ride It often like this unlocking the shock when I enter a harder trail.
This Plus bike is a very comfortable predictable easy to ride fast hard Tail far surpassing my expectations.

Notes:
Tubeless, absolutely without a doubt. 17 psi rear and 16 front, I feel no need for lower but will try it at 16r/15f
This bike may remain a 2x 10 system.
The wheels are not slowing me down at all.
Super stable when going up or down and even the really steep drop in’s feel so easy.
The bike moves well going fast.
I can lean the bike way over and It Is far more stable, holds speed surprisingly well in fast corners.
Glad it has a dropper post as the bike loves to lean way way over.
A real factor here Is the tires.
Maxxis Recon 27.5 x 2.8 TLR TPI 120 EXO, blab la bla 803 grams, Chunky treads, ramped in the right places and L shaped lugs where they should be..

A few Pictures will follow.....

Last edited by osco53; 11-06-16 at 04:52 AM.
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Old 11-05-16, 05:16 PM
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Few Pictures In the wild on the first ride

Last edited by osco53; 11-29-16 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 11-09-16, 01:36 PM
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I was told that my tire pressure choice was backwards for a hard tail, told I was thinking like a full suspension rider.
I was happy on my first ride with 17psi rear and 16 psi front.

For my second ride today Into the Single tracks I reversed the pressure F & R and It was better, then I dropped One psi up front to reach a 16F/16R and This was better still.
So naturally I dropped to 15F/15R, And as said In MBA these tires on certain trails can give you too much traction..
Back to 16/16 and that's where they will stay for now..

To any new plus riders, One single psi change with these 27.5x2.8 wides IMO has the same handling effect as a 3 psi change did on my Full suspension Spark with 27.5x2.35's at both ends......

And again getting Into the flow, switchbacks, short drop In's, sketchy G-outs, sweeping turns banked or flat seems to take less upper body energy from me.
As was expected any time I'm getting after it this bike Is still a hard tail and has to be ridden as such even with the plus tires taking much of the sting out of the ride.

But after today I am happy with the bike and the way It gets air, and climbs, and turns, and spins up.

The only place I work harder is on those short nearly straight up punchy climbs. In the saddle motoring up anything Is far easier than the full squish Spark. Out of the saddle steep short burst climbs are harder in very low gears. The back tire finds bite and then the tire flexes and throws a few rocks, then the tire digs In again and moves up the climb.
Smooth pedaling keeps the tire In the bite so on climbs where I'd want to use 1st gear I can pedal smoother In 2nd gear or even 3rd..

This bike will reach It's limits before a full squish as will all hard tails but the benefits of the plus tires Is really worth checking out.




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Old 11-09-16, 09:18 PM
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Wow, i have never had an opportunity...or perhaps need...to adjust psi by 1. Amazing that such a slight change can be felt due to the tire size. Though i guess thats a 7-8% change in psi which isnt insignificant
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Old 11-12-16, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Wow, i have never had an opportunity...or perhaps need...to adjust psi by 1. Amazing that such a slight change can be felt due to the tire size. Though i guess thats a 7-8% change in psi which isnt insignificant
Oh you bet but what really made me feel It was me going up in the front by 1 psi and down in the back by 1 at the same time.

Doing more testing today but I do know these plus bikes have a very extremely narrow tire/PSI performance window.
Factors to keep In mind:
Inside Diameter rim width,
Hard Tails/Full squish,
Different side walls, thinner needs more air, up to I'd guess 17 psi,
Thicker walled down to what some of the fast guys are running, about 13 I think.
Rider weight and skill, the need to, 'Ride Light' and help the bike keep the back tire down.

A bit too low of a tire pressure and you get a bounce at faster speeds on the smoother stuff. This can only be controlled/managed with very smooth pedaling and body movements on the bike. This is another reason I think a dropper is a big deal on these plus bikes.

Another Tidbit, The new Specialized stumpy plus bikes started showing up on my local trails, several, all coming from AJ's, a large LBS..
They were ridden by mostly recreational riders, not gonzo air junkies. They all seemed to like 17 psi with the full suspension, said, 'Lower was vague, numb' The wild ones, seemed to like 15 psi.
The only hard tail plus bike riders I've met are new people who still have tubes and no Idea about psi Importance.
They will soon find out I am sure.
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Old 11-13-16, 01:17 PM
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You're saying you want a suspension seatpost because of the rebound on 2.8" tires? Would you use 2.8" tires as a winter bike? (I might go 2.25" studded tires if 2.8" isn't a viable option. Walmart has a cheap 27.5+ bike.)
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Old 11-26-16, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Wow, i have never had an opportunity...or perhaps need...to adjust psi by 1. Amazing that such a slight change can be felt due to the tire size. Though i guess thats a 7-8% change in psi which isnt insignificant
I know another rider who rides the Salsa Bucksaw,, google that one, IMO, From my point of view the Bucksaw Is the best full suspension full on fat bike I've seen to date.
Anyway he said he can feel 1/2 psi changes, especially in the rear end..

Last edited by osco53; 11-29-16 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 11-26-16, 10:41 AM
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Observations:

Getting my Scale plus dialed in now.

The most noticeable thing so far Is how less worn out I am at rides end and how much less work I have to do with my upper body. I am completing longer single tracks and longer rides In general without stopping.
The bike holds speed exceptionally well IMO.
I am running the fire roads in and out of the park to the trail head on the big ring and in gear 8 out back all the while pulling a good cadence.

Am completing more single tracks using far less brakes. If I get up a little too much speed It matters little as I can more often throw this bike Into a corner at speed and carry more out the other end.

Think of It this way, Your coming way too hot, you need some serious braking but Its too late to do things smooth.
My 27.5 full suspension would need 20 feet to dump half my speed to make that tight corner.
My 27.5 plus tires, I can squeeze the brakes twice as hard and still not lock up and loose it because I got a much larger contact patch, I need only 10 feet with this bike.
That may not be totally accurate but I feel like I have twice the stopping power and twice the cornering traction over my Spark full squish.
I'm really liking this plus bike..

Last edited by osco53; 11-26-16 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 11-26-16, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by osco53 View Post
I know another rider who rides the Salsa Bucksaw,, google that one, IMO The Bucksaw Is the best full suspension full on fat bike out there.
Anyway he said he can fee 1/2 psi changes, especially in the rear end..
really? Better than the Foes Mutz? Because you are the first person who I hear say that. And I know people who has owned both bikes. They kept the Foes.
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Old 11-26-16, 01:48 PM
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You got me, I have never seen or herd of the Foes Other than one magazine review that I promptly dismissed and forgot about due to the cost. Never thought of the Salsa against a fat bike in that price range. That Bucksaw hit the trail with a good build for Just Under $3400. He started with the frame and fork, did the rest himself. Funny I saw him riding it just yesterday.

I've only ridden a few full fat bikes so still IMO the Salsa Is tops.

Now that plus bikes are out I no longer want a full fat,, I have no snow, just sand.
The rider with the bucksaw told me he would have waited for a plus bike for down here but they were just not out in force yet. I mentioned Surly, he wanted carbon, would settle for aluminum but not cromo.

Last edited by osco53; 11-26-16 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 11-26-16, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by osco53 View Post
You got me, I have never seen or herd of the Foes Other than one magazine review that I promptly dismissed and forgot about due to the cost. Never thought of the Salsa against a fat bike in that price range. That Bucksaw hit the trail with a good build for Just Under $3400. He started with the frame and fork, did the rest himself. Funny I saw him riding it just yesterday.

I've only ridden a few full fat bikes so still IMO the Salsa Is tops.

Now that plus bikes are out I no longer want a full fat,, I have no snow, just sand.
The rider with the bucksaw told me he would have waited for a plus bike for down here but they were just not out in force yet. I mentioned Surly, he wanted carbon, would settle for aluminum but not cromo.
So you don't really know what you are talking about but you have an opinion. Got it.
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Old 11-26-16, 08:14 PM
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Yeah I should have said as far as I have seen, based on what I have actually been on,, Not :
"IMO The Bucksaw Is the best full suspension full on fat bike out there."

(IMO) means, In my opinion, Opinions are peoples views from personal experiences, never said I was the all knowing fat bike guru.
Here is a bit on the use of such a phrase in the English language,
differences - "I think ..." or "In my opinion..." or "From my point of view..." - English Language & Usage Stack Exchange

No really, next time I will say, 'From My point Of view' thank you for pointing this out to me FrozenK, well done.

I bow to your wisdom on Fat bike knowledge and use of the English language.
I only got a few B grades In english, mostly got C's. Got a few A's In English Lit, go figure, musta been my ADD

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Old 11-26-16, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by hybridbkrdr View Post
You're saying you want a suspension seatpost because of the rebound on 2.8" tires? Would you use 2.8" tires as a winter bike? (I might go 2.25" studded tires if 2.8" isn't a viable option. Walmart has a cheap 27.5+ bike.)
Better ask FrozenK about this but from what little I know a plus bike would be no where near as capable in the snow as a full on fat bike.

I've looked at the Walmart plus bike, no thanks.
Most every Walmart bike that leaves my local trail head returns with the rider pushing the bike.
A few make it back If they stay In the quads/flats and don't hit roots..
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Old 11-26-16, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by osco53 View Post
Yeah I should have said as far as I have seen, based on what I have actually been on,, Not :
"IMO The Bucksaw Is the best full suspension full on fat bike out there."

(IMO) means, In my opinion, Opinions are peoples views from personal experiences, never said I was the all knowing fat bike guru.
Here is a bit on the use of such a phrase in the English language,
differences - "I think ..." or "In my opinion..." or "From my point of view..." - English Language & Usage Stack Exchange

No really, next time I will say, 'From My point Of view' thank you for pointing this out to me FrozenK, well done.

I bow to your wisdom on Fat bike knowledge and use of the English language.
I only got a few B grades In english, mostly got C's. Got a few A's In English Lit, go figure, musta been my ADD
So you don't know what you are talking about but you have an opinion. Got it.
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Old 11-26-16, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by osco53 View Post
Yeah I should have said as far as I have seen, based on what I have actually been on,, Not :
"IMO The Bucksaw Is the best full suspension full on fat bike out there."

(IMO) means, In my opinion, Opinions are peoples views from personal experiences, never said I was the all knowing fat bike guru.
Here is a bit on the use of such a phrase in the English language,
differences - "I think ..." or "In my opinion..." or "From my point of view..." - English Language & Usage Stack Exchange

No really, next time I will say, 'From My point Of view' thank you for pointing this out to me FrozenK, well done.

I bow to your wisdom on Fat bike knowledge and use of the English language.
I only got a few B grades In english, mostly got C's. Got a few A's In English Lit, go figure, musta been my ADD
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts.

In this thread you have presented your opinions, based on your own self-admitted lack of experience, as fact.

This thread does not make you look like any kind of reputable source of MTB information. Especially when you couple your unsupported "facts" with you quoting MBA articles as a source.
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Old 11-27-16, 04:45 PM
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Some folks didn't get enough pumpkin pie and are grumpy!

The guy got a new bike, he loves it, and is expressing his opinions. Nobody has opinions that are facts, so why bust his huevos.

I don't read a forum to learn facts, but to hear opinions. And, the more favorable opinions, experiences I hear about something, the more likely I am to investigate it more.

Osco, thanks for sharing your experiences with your new bike. This could help someone else begin their research.
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Old 11-27-16, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Kindaslow View Post
Some folks didn't get enough pumpkin pie and are grumpy!

The guy got a new bike, he loves it, and is expressing his opinions. Nobody has opinions that are facts, so why bust his huevos.

I don't read a forum to learn facts, but to hear opinions. And, the more favorable opinions, experiences I hear about something, the more likely I am to investigate it more.

Osco, thanks for sharing your experiences with your new bike. This could help someone else begin their research.

But, but but...he thinks he read something in MBA!

"Favorable opinions" that are based on reading vacuous magazine articles aren't helpful. They certainly aren't real experiences.
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Old 11-27-16, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by yak bacon pie View Post
But, but but...he thinks he read something in MBA!

"Favorable opinions" that are based on reading vacuous magazine articles aren't helpful. They certainly aren't real experiences.
That is your opinion. 😀

And I am ok with that.

My experience was the forums is that many people who provide opinions with zero personal experience. It was virtually impossible to get real info on the rs-1 when I wanted one, yet people with zero experience had a lot to say. The internet needs to be used caution
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Old 11-28-16, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Kindaslow View Post
That is your opinion. 😀

And I am ok with that.

My experience was the forums is that many people who provide opinions with zero personal experience. It was virtually impossible to get real info on the rs-1 when I wanted one, yet people with zero experience had a lot to say. The internet needs to be used caution
That's the problem. Someone who has no clue what they are talking about but they have an opinion.
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Old 11-28-16, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by FrozenK View Post
That's the problem. Someone who has no clue what they are talking about but they have an opinion.
The vast majority of what he wrote appears to be his thoughts on his new bike, and he is entitled. My only real question is why are we arguing? In all likelihood that is my fault, given I wrote something. But, either way, have a good day and a good ride.
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Old 11-28-16, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Kindaslow View Post
The vast majority of what he wrote appears to be his thoughts on his new bike, and he is entitled.
Many of his "thoughts" are goofy considering his lack of experience/magazine regurgitation so no, he is not entitled to post them as fact. It's not helpful to advocate that folks should be able to post their "thoughts" as fact.

"can climb anything, on and on you’ve read the articles and I have that now" It is very funny reading though!
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Old 11-29-16, 06:00 AM
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Some of you people need to re think all of this. I mean really ?

I make comments on articles I have read,
I post observations from my riding experiences, based on the bikes I have been on and those owned and ridden by others from conversations with them.
One poster feels some unknown to me Foes bike Is better than the one I know about and Jumps on my comment of the best out there, takes It personal, feels the need to make a point of telling my I am all wrong for expressing my opinion.

"So you don't really know what you are talking about but you have an opinion. Got it."
Nice, very nice work


A more constructive thing would be to express his opinion telling why he thinks the bike he likes is better than one I spoke of.
I would have enjoyed reading a first hand report on the Foes Mutz from a rider. but all I got was what that poster saw from others who owned and rode both, not him It seems or did I miss something.
But no I've seen this before, people get off on making others look bad, makes them fell better.
I made a less than perfect choice of how I presented my experience and got flamed.
I deserved that, fine, but the following drama hahahaha wow.
Forum drama queens, we act like spoiled kids at times. I mean really ?

All This because I said IMO this or that bike is the best out there ? wow I am glad smart people know these forums are places to talk bikes, give opinions and good advice mixed in are less experienced riders talking about what they find to be true from personal riding experiences.

I have been thanked many times for my posts on this or that experience In more than one forum.
Why I do this Is simple, I like talking bikes.
I cannot ride every day so I do this.

Maybe I'm a bad Influence, maybe the Mods should boot me out

I'll just have to go for a ride I guess..

Relax people, I never Intended to cause all this BullHockey,

really ?

Disagreeing with another's opinion is fine and expressing that constructively fine. But If I find myself belittling others or starting all this again I will bow out and stop posting here.
I wont be hurt one bit..

I do need to ride more, I gained 4 pounds over the 4 days of Turkey and pie eating

Last edited by osco53; 11-29-16 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 11-29-16, 06:15 AM
  #23  
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts.

This one Is priceless, Love It

In this thread you have presented your opinions, based on your own self-admitted lack of experience, as fact.

I have no words LOL

This thread does not make you look like any kind of reputable source of MTB information. Especially when you couple your unsupported "facts" with you quoting MBA articles as a source.

I will have to hire a bike wrench and a racer to help support me I guess and the quote form MBA was simply a single quoted line, just a comment, I doubt It was documented or debated, I just liked the quote and It was exactly how my plus bike felt on my first blown out corner.......
Um that was a first hand experience btw.

I read this twice Yak, thanks It was good stuff ..
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Old 11-29-16, 06:22 AM
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I've puked on my bike more than once.
I bleed on my bikes, many times, I crash really well.
Several decades ago I rode mountain bikes, rim brakes, no suspension, rode motor cross also.

Only been back Into mountain biking for a bit less than five years, only owned three bikes...
So I guess that makes me a total fool that has not a clue what I am talking about.

But I never would have guessed I'd offend or anger the pro's, the EXPERTS ~

Really ? Yer kidding right
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Old 11-29-16, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by osco53 View Post
But If I find myself belittling others or starting all this again I will bow out and stop posting here.
Uh Oh,, Post #23, I did It, I am not perfect, Human I am,, I've enjoyed this forum, It has always been fun....

Later

Last edited by osco53; 11-29-16 at 06:36 AM.
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