2 Questions on my QR Skewer
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
2 Questions on my QR Skewer
1) See pic. Is this considered an internal cam skewer? I think it is, but just want to verify it's not an external cam skewer.
2) My rear QR skewer is not smooth upon closing or opening, it's just kinda jerky and not smooth (wheel is seated correctly, no junk in there, etc. - it just isn't a smooth acting lever like the front one). It does tighten up nice and holds the wheel nice and tight, no issues while riding, etc. - just doesn't have that satisfying smooth action when closing or opening, kinda stutters a bit. Anything to be concerned about here?
2) My rear QR skewer is not smooth upon closing or opening, it's just kinda jerky and not smooth (wheel is seated correctly, no junk in there, etc. - it just isn't a smooth acting lever like the front one). It does tighten up nice and holds the wheel nice and tight, no issues while riding, etc. - just doesn't have that satisfying smooth action when closing or opening, kinda stutters a bit. Anything to be concerned about here?
Last edited by puma1552; 07-09-19 at 10:30 PM.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,895
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 184 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 67 Times
in
53 Posts
This article says it's a bit of a cross between internal and external.
https://bikerumor.com/2017/05/16/cam...r-wheelset-qr/
External cam skewer on top, internal cam skewer on bottom.
https://bikerumor.com/2017/05/16/cam...r-wheelset-qr/
External cam skewer on top, internal cam skewer on bottom.
Last edited by cobba; 07-09-19 at 11:37 PM.
Likes For cobba:
#3
Licensed Bike Geek
You might put just a dab of lube on the pivot and where the handle slides against the plate. That usually smooths things nicely.
Likes For Davet:
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
It's not really exposed like an external cam; while it's not entirely enclosed either, the guts are pretty much within the body and I cannot see a washer the lever cradles into like you can with a typical external cam.
I figure this is either a pretty well protected external cam, or an internal cam that's a bit less protected than a typical one. I really don't know.
As for my quick release, I decided to go upstairs and open and close it 15-20 times, and it's nice and smooth now - I guess it just needed to be worked in a bit, so no issues there. Maybe it had been sitting around a while at the factory or something, but it's good now.
EDIT: @cobba thanks for posting that link, looks like it is indeed some weird hybrid skewer.
I figure this is either a pretty well protected external cam, or an internal cam that's a bit less protected than a typical one. I really don't know.
As for my quick release, I decided to go upstairs and open and close it 15-20 times, and it's nice and smooth now - I guess it just needed to be worked in a bit, so no issues there. Maybe it had been sitting around a while at the factory or something, but it's good now.
EDIT: @cobba thanks for posting that link, looks like it is indeed some weird hybrid skewer.
Last edited by puma1552; 07-10-19 at 12:10 AM.
#5
Me duelen las nalgas
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,513
Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel
Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4559 Post(s)
Liked 2,802 Times
in
1,800 Posts
Some lightweight QRs like that, including my old Salsa external cam QRs, are made of aluminum (but not the skewers, which are steel) to save weight. Reportedly some may be titanium but I haven't seen any. They're usually found on weight weenie bikes like my early '90s Trek 5900, which was the lightest production bike ever made at that time. I eyeball bikes at group rides, including Tuesday's, and see a few external or hybrid QRs on carbon fiber and titanium bikes.
Galling (sorta similar to "stiction") can occur with aluminum parts under pressure and friction, which will tend to feel odd when camming under pressure, and can squeak or creak -- especially anodized aluminum parts. I use scented candle wax -- for some reason it seems to work better than oil or grease. It's just paraffin with a solvent that softens it a bit so it's easy to pinch off a bit with a fingertip and smudge it around friction surfaces like external cam QRs or between squeaky spokes.
Some folks don't trust external cam QRs but I don't see any mechanical reason why these won't hold as securely as hidden cam QRs. I wonder whether the bias is just resistance to changing from traditional doodads. So far my lightweight external cam QRs have held as securely as the more familiar steel hidden cam QRs.
Galling (sorta similar to "stiction") can occur with aluminum parts under pressure and friction, which will tend to feel odd when camming under pressure, and can squeak or creak -- especially anodized aluminum parts. I use scented candle wax -- for some reason it seems to work better than oil or grease. It's just paraffin with a solvent that softens it a bit so it's easy to pinch off a bit with a fingertip and smudge it around friction surfaces like external cam QRs or between squeaky spokes.
Some folks don't trust external cam QRs but I don't see any mechanical reason why these won't hold as securely as hidden cam QRs. I wonder whether the bias is just resistance to changing from traditional doodads. So far my lightweight external cam QRs have held as securely as the more familiar steel hidden cam QRs.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,096 Times
in
742 Posts
Some folks don't trust external cam QRs but I don't see any mechanical reason why these won't hold as securely as hidden cam QRs. I wonder whether the bias is just resistance to changing from traditional doodads. So far my lightweight external cam QRs have held as securely as the more familiar steel hidden cam QRs.
#7
Banned
Exclusive to latest Campagnolo
Which few have , so as to be exact.. But ...
Make sure its tight,, * with vertical dropouts .. fork obviously is ,
rear wheel dropout un shown, probably too, as Indexing needs consistent wheel location .
Its not that big a deal..
* Lever Leaves a mark on the palm of your hand ...
...
Make sure its tight,, * with vertical dropouts .. fork obviously is ,
rear wheel dropout un shown, probably too, as Indexing needs consistent wheel location .
Its not that big a deal..
* Lever Leaves a mark on the palm of your hand ...
...
Last edited by fietsbob; 07-10-19 at 08:11 AM.
#8
Zip tie Karen
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Posts: 7,004
Bikes: '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '18 Velobuild VB-R-022, '21 Tsunami SNM-100
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1465 Post(s)
Liked 1,542 Times
in
806 Posts
Put me down squarely in the camp of those who would not use that skewer. I'd replace with a Shimano skewer at the first opportunity. You can find the latest Ultegra skewers inexpensively if you know where to look.
Likes For Phil_gretz:
#9
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,632
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4731 Post(s)
Liked 1,531 Times
in
1,002 Posts
External cam skewers can't develop as much clamping force as internal cam skewers. For vertical rear dropouts and rim brake forks, that's not an issue as their clamping force is adequate. The problems arise in frames with horizontal dropouts or disc brake forks where their clamping force can be inadequate to keep the rear wheel positioned properly or keep the front wheel retained in the dropouts. The later then depends on the "lawyer's lips" for wheel retention.
As an aside question.. is there such a thing as using too much clamping force?
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 4,848
Bikes: Schwinn Varsity
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1931 Post(s)
Liked 742 Times
in
422 Posts
It's not really exposed like an external cam; while it's not entirely enclosed either, the guts are pretty much within the body and I cannot see a washer the lever cradles into like you can with a typical external cam.
I figure this is either a pretty well protected external cam, or an internal cam that's a bit less protected than a typical one. I really don't know.
As for my quick release, I decided to go upstairs and open and close it 15-20 times, and it's nice and smooth now - I guess it just needed to be worked in a bit, so no issues there. Maybe it had been sitting around a while at the factory or something, but it's good now.
EDIT: @cobba thanks for posting that link, looks like it is indeed some weird hybrid skewer.
I figure this is either a pretty well protected external cam, or an internal cam that's a bit less protected than a typical one. I really don't know.
As for my quick release, I decided to go upstairs and open and close it 15-20 times, and it's nice and smooth now - I guess it just needed to be worked in a bit, so no issues there. Maybe it had been sitting around a while at the factory or something, but it's good now.
EDIT: @cobba thanks for posting that link, looks like it is indeed some weird hybrid skewer.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,096 Times
in
742 Posts
I'm not sure they can in a practical sense. Most external cam skewers have plastic cam seats and weaker lever pivots. They are made for light weight rather than strength. The lever force needed to equal the clamping force of an internal cam skewer would probably break them.
#12
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,782
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3587 Post(s)
Liked 3,398 Times
in
1,932 Posts
As an aside question.. is there such a thing as using too much clamping force?
#13
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,632
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4731 Post(s)
Liked 1,531 Times
in
1,002 Posts
I'm not sure they can in a practical sense. Most external cam skewers have plastic cam seats and weaker lever pivots. They are made for light weight rather than strength. The lever force needed to equal the clamping force of an internal cam skewer would probably break them.
https://www.excelsports.com/main.asp...jor=1&minor=21
Internal cam skewers have greater mechanical advantage than external cam skewers, and since the length of the lever arm is pretty much the same on each, it's harder to clamp an external cam skewer effectively on a horizontal dropout.
You can exceed the strength of the component parts; e.g. I've seem broken aluminum external cam levers from using a leverage-enhancer ("cheater pipe," wrench, etc.) on the lever to get it to clamp properly on a horizontal dropout.
You can exceed the strength of the component parts; e.g. I've seem broken aluminum external cam levers from using a leverage-enhancer ("cheater pipe," wrench, etc.) on the lever to get it to clamp properly on a horizontal dropout.
#14
Senior Member
Thread Starter
So are we all in agreement these are odd hybrid skewers that neither fit definitions of internal or external? I have vertical dropouts and a lawyer tab fork, so I can't imagine I'll have problems using these...I'll also assume Campy did their due diligence in designing them...
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
I've replaced all my external cam QRs with Ultegras. A few grams is totally worth the peace of mind.
Likes For caloso:
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Any real world pics of the Ultegra 6800 skewers? The interwebz tells me they are dark gray, which seems odd when Shimano running gear is either black or silver. Interwebz pics make it hard to get a feel for the color.
Also, is there an 8000 skewer? Can't seem to find any, not that skewers are probably top priority to redesign with each generation.
Also, is there an 8000 skewer? Can't seem to find any, not that skewers are probably top priority to redesign with each generation.
#18
Licensed Bike Geek
Any real world pics of the Ultegra 6800 skewers? The interwebz tells me they are dark gray, which seems odd when Shimano running gear is either black or silver. Interwebz pics make it hard to get a feel for the color.
Also, is there an 8000 skewer? Can't seem to find any, not that skewers are probably top priority to redesign with each generation.
Also, is there an 8000 skewer? Can't seem to find any, not that skewers are probably top priority to redesign with each generation.