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Veloflex Carbon tubular mystery punctures

Old 09-19-19, 12:33 PM
  #1  
Vince Canepa
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Veloflex Carbon tubular mystery punctures

I'm hoping someone can offer some insight to a problem I am having with "mystery" punctures of my Veloflex Carbon tubulars. I have them mounted on ENVE 3.4 SES carbon rims. I am using Vittoria Mastik 1 to glue them. The tries have had approximately 1,500 miles on them when this occurs. I'm running the wheels/tires on a 2013 Cannondale Suppersix Evo Red Racing. I have had at least two "punctures" in the past year where I cannot find the source of the leak. Immersing the mounted tire in a tub of water shows leakage not anywhere near the tread, where you would expect a "puncture" to take place, but at the base tape. Yesterday carefully removed the tire from the rim and immersed it in the water. The leak is coming from the lowest part of the sidewall right at the edge of the base tape. I actually removed the base tape and opened the tire in the area where te leak appears and examined the tube. There is a tiny cut, but it is in the area right above the internal polyester ribbon that is supposed to protect the tube. This has to be the toughest part of the tire! I am at a loss how this is happening. I opened the entire casing and examined it under a magnified light. I can't find any evidence of a puncture anywhere. The rims don't show any sign of sharp edges, fibers, etc. Any thoughts?
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Old 09-19-19, 02:12 PM
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Even though it's something that tubular tires are supposed to avoid, my guess is that it's something like a pinch flat. If you hit something hard, the impact can still tear the inner tube.

Imagine hitting a chunk of asphalt or whatever. It collapses the tire against the rim. A tubular rim is a lot nicer shape than a clincher, but still, that old tube is between a rock and a hard place.

As for why it happens after 1,500 miles or whatever, I think just like everything else, stuff gets old. That's a pretty solid number of miles for a Veloflex Carbon.
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Old 09-19-19, 02:44 PM
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Latex inner tube? Latex has a much shorter shelf-life than butyl, ect.
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Old 09-19-19, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by AnkleWork
Latex inner tube? Latex has a much shorter shelf-life than butyl, ect.
It's a tubular tire.
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Old 09-19-19, 08:48 PM
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All replies get a +1 Andy
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Old 09-19-19, 10:51 PM
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...

Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
It's a tubular tire.
Originally Posted by Vince Canepa
... I actually removed the base tape and opened the tire in the area where te leak appears and examined the tube...
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Old 09-20-19, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ljsense
Even though it's something that tubular tires are supposed to avoid, my guess is that it's something like a pinch flat. If you hit something hard, the impact can still tear the inner tube.

Imagine hitting a chunk of asphalt or whatever. It collapses the tire against the rim. A tubular rim is a lot nicer shape than a clincher, but still, that old tube is between a rock and a hard place.

As for why it happens after 1,500 miles or whatever, I think just like everything else, stuff gets old. That's a pretty solid number of miles for a Veloflex Carbon.
I did consider that possibility but this is the first such issue in 40+ years riding tubulars. Also, the roads I ride are in nice condition and I really can't recall running over anything that could cause this. The tire is 11 months old, or at least that is when I bought it from the folks I have used for years - World Class Cycles. Maybe their stock is old? I went through my Garmin files and the tire has 1,954 miles. The tread is still in very good condition. The tube is very supple - virtually new. The previous tire, which had the same type of failure, only had 893 miles. Anyway, thanks for the replies and, bottom line, I'll pay very close attention in the future and take note of any significant impacts that may cause this.
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Old 09-20-19, 09:43 AM
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After you opened the casing, did you water test the tube?
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Old 09-20-19, 12:13 PM
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After 1500 miles I would say the tires are done.
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Old 09-20-19, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by woodcraft
After you opened the casing, did you water test the tube?
Yes. No leaks on the tread side of the tube, only near the base tape.
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Old 09-20-19, 02:15 PM
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Perhaps the leak was caused by the rim - check out https://www.velonews.com/2019/09/bik...yrenees_500757
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Old 09-20-19, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Jean_TX
Perhaps the leak was caused by the rim - check out https://www.velonews.com/2019/09/bik...yrenees_500757
tubular tire not tubeless
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Old 09-20-19, 06:04 PM
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Sew ups are well known for the "leak" to be away from the actual spot of the leak. Air (like water) seeks the path of least resistance. Think of the leaking toilet on the second floor that drips a room away on the first floor. The water runs along a joist and to a low point before pooling and thus dripping through the ceiling. same for air in a sewn casing. It may well be That the air is traveling inside the casing till a gap to the outside world is found.

This and other reasons is why many give up on sew ups after a few non repairable flats. Andy
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Old 09-20-19, 06:23 PM
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Have you considered putting sealant in the tube?
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Old 09-21-19, 01:29 PM
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Andrew - Yes, the actual leak can travel before it surfaces on the exterior. But in this case, after I opened the initial site, I stripped the entire and removed the tube. The result is still the same - the leak has occurred near the base tape. And after 40+ years I know how frustrating tubulars can be, but I'm old, hard headed and I love the things:-)

horatio - Not this time around. I have used Calfee Latex in the past and it was OK for a while. But it eventually let go and latex ended up all over my back. So I just sort of gave up. To be honest, I've had mixed results with sealant in tubeless rims also. So for my tubeless setups I now run them without sealant and carry a spare tube to throw in in case of a flat - works fine

trailangel - does this tire look done? To my idea it still has some miles left in it. I'm pretty easy on tires. Veloflex gives a range of 1,800 to 3,600 miles for these tires.

Once again - thank you for the comments.


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