Ask your small, random, track-related questions here
#5601
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I have a set of Look Keo 2 Max pedals that were adapted by Dolan, they bolted an extra carrier to the back. For double straps the front strap is still done with zip ties. Hopefully these pics make it easier to see. I would imagine it would be easy enough to make a looped bit of steel and bolt it to the pedal body.
Having the rear loop at the back of the pedal ensure the strap stays mid foot rather than just being over the toe area like the fabric straps that attach at the axle.
Having the rear loop at the back of the pedal ensure the strap stays mid foot rather than just being over the toe area like the fabric straps that attach at the axle.
(Yes these are SRAM Omnium cranks. He took his personal race pedals and installed them on his "Hoy Fiorenzuola" entry level track bike line for a photoshoot when the bike was first released a few years ago.)
I wouldn't be surprised if the exact same system.
Further back on the foot provides better energy transfer instead of just through the metatarsals.
#5602
Senior Member
Yeah, I'm often confused by peoples' strap set-ups. Most seem way too forward to me. I've even seen world level riders with their straps basically around their toes.
#5603
Senior Member
this was interesting, saw it on google the other day.
Mira Pedal Strap Adapter - New Blue ? Coach Carl Cycling
I could print these (or something close) off if I knew some dimensions.
There was also a guide (on here I believe) about using old toe straps/cages, chopping up the cage and then fitting it to look (shimano) pedals. I tried that for a project a year or two ago, worked really nice. I can take some pictures later if you want, it was simple, just some $15 cages, a dremel and an hour or so. Modification also isn't as "permanent" as the drilling/tapping method.
Mira Pedal Strap Adapter - New Blue ? Coach Carl Cycling
I could print these (or something close) off if I knew some dimensions.
There was also a guide (on here I believe) about using old toe straps/cages, chopping up the cage and then fitting it to look (shimano) pedals. I tried that for a project a year or two ago, worked really nice. I can take some pictures later if you want, it was simple, just some $15 cages, a dremel and an hour or so. Modification also isn't as "permanent" as the drilling/tapping method.
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I wish my pedals wer shimano rather than look though. Much prefer shimano cleats and means i could have same cleats on all my shoes.
Im experimenting with single straps - double njs straps are very secure and comforting but strapping up in a hurry when getting on the boards is a completed pain in the bum. Single strap is much more convenient. And if its good enough for Sir Chris Hoy, then by gods its about 10 times more secure than i need!
#5605
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this was interesting, saw it on google the other day.
Mira Pedal Strap Adapter - New Blue ? Coach Carl Cycling
I could print these (or something close) off if I knew some dimensions.
Mira Pedal Strap Adapter - New Blue ? Coach Carl Cycling
I could print these (or something close) off if I knew some dimensions.
I 3D printed several LOOK and Shimano prototype holders like those in the website.
The problem that I ran into is that the resin eventually shatters because of some small crack that expands. I would imagine that the person selling this is probably experiencing the same. A final product will have to be made a different way (carved, injection molded, or some other way).
#5606
Senior Member
@carleton but I have no Keo pedals to measure
Yeah PLA probably won't hold up. ABS might, or some of the fancier mediums... but my Prusa isn't really set up to handle that stuff (I do keep meaning to build a box for it so I can keep the temp steady and print ABS)
I need to learn how to use a cnc machine for parts like this...
Yeah PLA probably won't hold up. ABS might, or some of the fancier mediums... but my Prusa isn't really set up to handle that stuff (I do keep meaning to build a box for it so I can keep the temp steady and print ABS)
I need to learn how to use a cnc machine for parts like this...
#5608
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@carleton but I have no Keo pedals to measure
Yeah PLA probably won't hold up. ABS might, or some of the fancier mediums... but my Prusa isn't really set up to handle that stuff (I do keep meaning to build a box for it so I can keep the temp steady and print ABS)
I need to learn how to use a cnc machine for parts like this...
Yeah PLA probably won't hold up. ABS might, or some of the fancier mediums... but my Prusa isn't really set up to handle that stuff (I do keep meaning to build a box for it so I can keep the temp steady and print ABS)
I need to learn how to use a cnc machine for parts like this...
#5609
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I made some strap adapters for Shimano pedal.
I used PETG filament but you still need to reinforce using resin and wires to prevent from layers breaking.
For me this solved the problem.
#5611
Senior Member
That's what I consider the best placement of the strap, behind the pedal body itself. I learned this was best for myself using the old school DA 7400 pedals. This is basically the position of the rearward strap in a double strap set-up, and it seem to provide most of the power transfer and fit retention. I've tried the single strap just behind the pedal axle as most do and it just doesn't feel right to me. The strap passing right under the middle of the arch of your foot is the sweet spot.
Last edited by Baby Puke; 08-20-19 at 09:30 PM. Reason: doh!
#5614
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2: This...
Zipp logos missing in Pruszkow
“We weren’t ready,” confessed a Zipp representative who knows the inner machinations of the brand very well. Quite simply, he explained, “we don’t have a front disc wheel yet”. In modern pursuit the disc wheel set-up – front and rear – is ubiquitous. It is efficient, fast, reliable and employed by virtually every pursuit entrant.
“We don’t want to just hand over prototype products,” said the Zipp spokesman. “We want to prove that our product is better.
“We’re going to wait until everything is ready,” he concluded, not able to suggest an exact date for this but he estimated that it would be “around September or October… maybe even November or December.”
“We weren’t ready,” confessed a Zipp representative who knows the inner machinations of the brand very well. Quite simply, he explained, “we don’t have a front disc wheel yet”. In modern pursuit the disc wheel set-up – front and rear – is ubiquitous. It is efficient, fast, reliable and employed by virtually every pursuit entrant.
“We don’t want to just hand over prototype products,” said the Zipp spokesman. “We want to prove that our product is better.
“We’re going to wait until everything is ready,” he concluded, not able to suggest an exact date for this but he estimated that it would be “around September or October… maybe even November or December.”
#5615
Senior Member
What if the Mavic/Campag combo used by Glaetzer was fast(er)est? Wouldn't that be a headf*%# for sponsorship deals
#5616
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My guess is that their is either some marketing gamesmanship going on or production holdups.
Recall that we didn't see the GB bikes until the London Olympics. The Felt TA FRD was only introduced like 3 months before the Rio Olympics.
Wheels are much easier to copy than bikes. It is reasonable that Zipp may be keeping their designs close to the vest for as long as they can to avoid competitors having time enough to copy them. Keep in mind, they may be unveiling wheels for the other Olympic cycling events which may all be of this new generation.
#5617
Senior Member
I read this as "we don't want to be seen putting a series of prototype wheels under the athletes. When you see them riding our wheels we will have documented proof that they are the fastest and we need the product available to flood the marketplace."
IMO with the wheels that are out there like the Campag, NZ's Southern Spars, Corimas and BC's 3 spoke that are all unproven but purported to be faster than Mavics, making a faster wheel may be a hard ask.
There is also merit in what you say @carleton about not wanting to release the secret weapon to the public too soon though. I wonder if Aus has a deal not to release the wheels until after the Olympics. It wouldn't be a wise move to have a hand in their development and then have half the field riding the same wheels and lose that advantage
#5618
Member
Thanks for all the advice and great reading that has been on here as I get into track racing. Loved my first race I did last week.
Couple of questions though.
1. Any thoughts on Raketa chainrings, cogs and lockrings. I like the idea of a 16 notch BB lockring instead of having to use a lockring tool.
2. I ride on the track twice a week currently and commute by bicycle to work and school. Due to time constraints my outdoor training time is limited. Any tips or recommendations for trainer programs and workouts? I do ride my track bike on the trainer and like the trainer because its so time efficient for a workout.
Couple of questions though.
1. Any thoughts on Raketa chainrings, cogs and lockrings. I like the idea of a 16 notch BB lockring instead of having to use a lockring tool.
2. I ride on the track twice a week currently and commute by bicycle to work and school. Due to time constraints my outdoor training time is limited. Any tips or recommendations for trainer programs and workouts? I do ride my track bike on the trainer and like the trainer because its so time efficient for a workout.
#5619
Senior Member
Tire glue life
Considering you don't use that special pair of "race wheels" too much, how long can be the glue service - traditional stuff like Conti Carbon or Mastik-1 - be considered reliable?
What would be a recommended time - in years or months - to remove, clean excess and glue again, if the tire is good and everything is looking good?
What would be a recommended time - in years or months - to remove, clean excess and glue again, if the tire is good and everything is looking good?
#5620
Senior Member
2. I ride on the track twice a week currently and commute by bicycle to work and school. Due to time constraints my outdoor training time is limited. Any tips or recommendations for trainer programs and workouts? I do ride my track bike on the trainer and like the trainer because its so time efficient for a workout.
#5621
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Thanks for all the advice and great reading that has been on here as I get into track racing. Loved my first race I did last week.
Couple of questions though.
1. Any thoughts on Raketa chainrings, cogs and lockrings. I like the idea of a 16 notch BB lockring instead of having to use a lockring tool.
2. I ride on the track twice a week currently and commute by bicycle to work and school. Due to time constraints my outdoor training time is limited. Any tips or recommendations for trainer programs and workouts? I do ride my track bike on the trainer and like the trainer because its so time efficient for a workout.
Couple of questions though.
1. Any thoughts on Raketa chainrings, cogs and lockrings. I like the idea of a 16 notch BB lockring instead of having to use a lockring tool.
2. I ride on the track twice a week currently and commute by bicycle to work and school. Due to time constraints my outdoor training time is limited. Any tips or recommendations for trainer programs and workouts? I do ride my track bike on the trainer and like the trainer because its so time efficient for a workout.
As far as trainer workouts go, you can use any workout plan that a Road Criterium Racer would use. That would provide a great aerobic foundation. Those programs are easy to find for free. Here are some on Bike Forums: https://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-b...cipe-book.html
You don't need a power meter. You can use a basic heart rate monitor to determine your FTP:
#5622
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Considering you don't use that special pair of "race wheels" too much, how long can be the glue service - traditional stuff like Conti Carbon or Mastik-1 - be considered reliable?
What would be a recommended time - in years or months - to remove, clean excess and glue again, if the tire is good and everything is looking good?
What would be a recommended time - in years or months - to remove, clean excess and glue again, if the tire is good and everything is looking good?
I had a tubular tear on me once, so I had to clean the glue off to get the tire off. Once started, I had to go all the way until the rim was completely clean. It was a lot of work. There are plenty of solvents out there, but they soften the glue. There is still plenty of elbow grease involved to get it off.
Then you have to make sure the rim is clean of those solvents.
#5623
Senior Member
Several questions, all pertaining to 500m TT:
1. The Analytic Cycling site - is it really far off in predicting performance or even performance changes. Changing weight by 10 kg seems to have a minor effect but changing peak power duration just by a second has a massive effect.
2. For Nationals (USA) I assume that the UCI jig is used to measure the bike. Related to that if I have a custom built frame (it'd be a Tsunami or similar welded aluminum), would it be legal to race? It's definitely not on the UCI list. If not then I'd need to source a custom frame from a build that is UCI approved?
3. Related to that - are 24" wheels legal, if used as a pair? I see that 550mm is the minimum tire height and 24" tubular/road wheels are about 560?mm. However I don't see any pictures or mentions of any competitor using a 24" wheel. Nor 650c for that matter. (Related to that it seems there are no 24" rear wheels out there, and very few 650c rear wheels).
4. Related to that, would there be a measurable benefit to using a 24" or even 650c wheel for the 500m? I figure it would accelerate a bit quicker, and it seems like the most important thing is to get up to speed quickly - it takes a long time to accelerate, so reducing that time would be beneficial. I figured if there was an advantage then someone would be selling them but I don't see any out there.
5. Another wheel related question - is a front disc (700c) a hinderance in the 500m? For indoors I imagine it's okay, but even a 24" disc (I had one a long time ago) is pretty wiggly in any kind of wind.
6. 'm having a hard time seeing if there's an advantage to either sprint bars or aero bars for the 500m. I'm not a super powerful rider compared to some others so I assume that the aero bars would help maintain speed, but I've watched a gazillion 500m clips and it seems to go either way. I know personally that I saw a big pick up in speed with aero bars but that was in a normal time trial, not a 35-40 second effort.
7. For saddles I'm using an ISM now, so I'd either be right on the BB line (sprint bars) or 5 cm back (aero bars). I think those are the rules, unless I'm missing something.
8. Final related to that, if I was using 700c wheels and aero bars I'd have to raise the base bar quite high to clear the front tire, but for a 650c or 24" wheel I could leave the base bar height at the same height as my drops. For sprint bars it seems that they can be below the top of the tire by a decent amount so I'm okay. Running a 650c or 24" wheel would eliminate that measurement concern.
1. The Analytic Cycling site - is it really far off in predicting performance or even performance changes. Changing weight by 10 kg seems to have a minor effect but changing peak power duration just by a second has a massive effect.
2. For Nationals (USA) I assume that the UCI jig is used to measure the bike. Related to that if I have a custom built frame (it'd be a Tsunami or similar welded aluminum), would it be legal to race? It's definitely not on the UCI list. If not then I'd need to source a custom frame from a build that is UCI approved?
3. Related to that - are 24" wheels legal, if used as a pair? I see that 550mm is the minimum tire height and 24" tubular/road wheels are about 560?mm. However I don't see any pictures or mentions of any competitor using a 24" wheel. Nor 650c for that matter. (Related to that it seems there are no 24" rear wheels out there, and very few 650c rear wheels).
4. Related to that, would there be a measurable benefit to using a 24" or even 650c wheel for the 500m? I figure it would accelerate a bit quicker, and it seems like the most important thing is to get up to speed quickly - it takes a long time to accelerate, so reducing that time would be beneficial. I figured if there was an advantage then someone would be selling them but I don't see any out there.
5. Another wheel related question - is a front disc (700c) a hinderance in the 500m? For indoors I imagine it's okay, but even a 24" disc (I had one a long time ago) is pretty wiggly in any kind of wind.
6. 'm having a hard time seeing if there's an advantage to either sprint bars or aero bars for the 500m. I'm not a super powerful rider compared to some others so I assume that the aero bars would help maintain speed, but I've watched a gazillion 500m clips and it seems to go either way. I know personally that I saw a big pick up in speed with aero bars but that was in a normal time trial, not a 35-40 second effort.
7. For saddles I'm using an ISM now, so I'd either be right on the BB line (sprint bars) or 5 cm back (aero bars). I think those are the rules, unless I'm missing something.
8. Final related to that, if I was using 700c wheels and aero bars I'd have to raise the base bar quite high to clear the front tire, but for a 650c or 24" wheel I could leave the base bar height at the same height as my drops. For sprint bars it seems that they can be below the top of the tire by a decent amount so I'm okay. Running a 650c or 24" wheel would eliminate that measurement concern.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
#5624
Senior Member
Several questions, all pertaining to 500m TT:
1. The Analytic Cycling site - is it really far off in predicting performance or even performance changes. Changing weight by 10 kg seems to have a minor effect but changing peak power duration just by a second has a massive effect.
2. For Nationals (USA) I assume that the UCI jig is used to measure the bike. Related to that if I have a custom built frame (it'd be a Tsunami or similar welded aluminum), would it be legal to race? It's definitely not on the UCI list. If not then I'd need to source a custom frame from a build that is UCI approved?
3. Related to that - are 24" wheels legal, if used as a pair? I see that 550mm is the minimum tire height and 24" tubular/road wheels are about 560?mm. However I don't see any pictures or mentions of any competitor using a 24" wheel. Nor 650c for that matter. (Related to that it seems there are no 24" rear wheels out there, and very few 650c rear wheels).
4. Related to that, would there be a measurable benefit to using a 24" or even 650c wheel for the 500m? I figure it would accelerate a bit quicker, and it seems like the most important thing is to get up to speed quickly - it takes a long time to accelerate, so reducing that time would be beneficial. I figured if there was an advantage then someone would be selling them but I don't see any out there.
5. Another wheel related question - is a front disc (700c) a hinderance in the 500m? For indoors I imagine it's okay, but even a 24" disc (I had one a long time ago) is pretty wiggly in any kind of wind.
6. 'm having a hard time seeing if there's an advantage to either sprint bars or aero bars for the 500m. I'm not a super powerful rider compared to some others so I assume that the aero bars would help maintain speed, but I've watched a gazillion 500m clips and it seems to go either way. I know personally that I saw a big pick up in speed with aero bars but that was in a normal time trial, not a 35-40 second effort.
7. For saddles I'm using an ISM now, so I'd either be right on the BB line (sprint bars) or 5 cm back (aero bars). I think those are the rules, unless I'm missing something.
8. Final related to that, if I was using 700c wheels and aero bars I'd have to raise the base bar quite high to clear the front tire, but for a 650c or 24" wheel I could leave the base bar height at the same height as my drops. For sprint bars it seems that they can be below the top of the tire by a decent amount so I'm okay. Running a 650c or 24" wheel would eliminate that measurement concern.
1. The Analytic Cycling site - is it really far off in predicting performance or even performance changes. Changing weight by 10 kg seems to have a minor effect but changing peak power duration just by a second has a massive effect.
2. For Nationals (USA) I assume that the UCI jig is used to measure the bike. Related to that if I have a custom built frame (it'd be a Tsunami or similar welded aluminum), would it be legal to race? It's definitely not on the UCI list. If not then I'd need to source a custom frame from a build that is UCI approved?
3. Related to that - are 24" wheels legal, if used as a pair? I see that 550mm is the minimum tire height and 24" tubular/road wheels are about 560?mm. However I don't see any pictures or mentions of any competitor using a 24" wheel. Nor 650c for that matter. (Related to that it seems there are no 24" rear wheels out there, and very few 650c rear wheels).
4. Related to that, would there be a measurable benefit to using a 24" or even 650c wheel for the 500m? I figure it would accelerate a bit quicker, and it seems like the most important thing is to get up to speed quickly - it takes a long time to accelerate, so reducing that time would be beneficial. I figured if there was an advantage then someone would be selling them but I don't see any out there.
5. Another wheel related question - is a front disc (700c) a hinderance in the 500m? For indoors I imagine it's okay, but even a 24" disc (I had one a long time ago) is pretty wiggly in any kind of wind.
6. 'm having a hard time seeing if there's an advantage to either sprint bars or aero bars for the 500m. I'm not a super powerful rider compared to some others so I assume that the aero bars would help maintain speed, but I've watched a gazillion 500m clips and it seems to go either way. I know personally that I saw a big pick up in speed with aero bars but that was in a normal time trial, not a 35-40 second effort.
7. For saddles I'm using an ISM now, so I'd either be right on the BB line (sprint bars) or 5 cm back (aero bars). I think those are the rules, unless I'm missing something.
8. Final related to that, if I was using 700c wheels and aero bars I'd have to raise the base bar quite high to clear the front tire, but for a 650c or 24" wheel I could leave the base bar height at the same height as my drops. For sprint bars it seems that they can be below the top of the tire by a decent amount so I'm okay. Running a 650c or 24" wheel would eliminate that measurement concern.
2.) The last few years they have been pretty lax with the jig. That said... you should at the bare minimum contact them and get the head comm's opinion. Quite a few bikes without a uci sticker get used... but it can change on the whim of an official.
3.) To my knowledge, so long as front/back are the same size, you're good
4.) *rough guideline* it comes out a wash. People thought similarly in regards to aerodynamics... smaller leading edge *should* be more aero (vs a 700c wheel) but to compensate you have a longer head tube, again basically a wash.
5.) ride discs when you can. Indoors in a TT, that's always.
6.) when aerobars are legal, you should use them (assuming you have an optimized position, etc etc)
7.) you get to choose one exemption, no questions asked (they don't measure you on the bike, just the bike) - with aerobars it's either a.) at least -5cm saddle to bb and up to 80cm reach, or b.)at most 0cm saddle to bb and up to 75cm reach. There is an extra 5cm reach available to people over 6ft (I can't remember exactly how tall you have to be, again, check out the uci technical guide)
8.) run what you have... again assuming it checks out ok.
#5625
Full Member
2) Bikes no longer have to be UCI compliant at Masters Nationals. Of course, this may change.
4) 24" wheels will also usually have better aerodynamics because of lower rotational drag. However this is probably offset by the higher rolling resistance of smaller wheels. Rotational drag is hard to test, and I can't think of anyone who has current rolling resistance data of 24" tires.
Another issue is that it's really challenging to find good fast tires at 24" since it's such a rare rim size.
4) 24" wheels will also usually have better aerodynamics because of lower rotational drag. However this is probably offset by the higher rolling resistance of smaller wheels. Rotational drag is hard to test, and I can't think of anyone who has current rolling resistance data of 24" tires.
Another issue is that it's really challenging to find good fast tires at 24" since it's such a rare rim size.