Old School Frame Project for Rat Trap Pass Tire
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Old School Frame Project for Rat Trap Pass Tire
The title pretty much encapsulates my current project; a randonneur all-road enduro for the 559x54 Rat Trap Pass tire. Fenders, electrical slip-ring on the steerer/brass brush in the down lug, in support of rinko and concealed power delivery to the taillight, and a rack for a large front bag...or a stack of pizzas. Aside from a last bit of final checking the main triangle is ready to be brazed.
Project photos here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/216244...57671170583438
John Clay
Tallahassee, Florida
Project photos here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/216244...57671170583438
John Clay
Tallahassee, Florida
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Please provide a link to jig info. It looks familiar somehow. Loving the cutouts.
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Aye-yi-yi; dis gone be good!
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● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
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This isn't the first bike I've seen designed around those tires. I'll be interested to see how yours ends up comparing to the one @gugie built.
650b x 42 BSP frame. Internal wiring + slip-ring in the HT for power to the taillight. The frame has the essential rinko details built in though I haven't modified the rear fender or other bolt on stuff to support it. The rack I built also houses the wiring in the right side strut.
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I built the main frame fixture though I outsourced the machined parts to Joe Bringheli. Dummy axles by Anvil. It's just a basic flat plate unit made from a piece of 1" thick aluminum plate I found at the scrap yard. I designed it to adjust exactly the way I think of frame design: The axles are horizontal datum, BB drop is an offset from that, WB is measured off the vertical datum going through the horizontally fixed BB location, angles or set back measured off of that as well.
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I follow John's flickr site, he does a lot of cool stuff. His slip ring design (all internal wiring from fork through frame) is very interesting. Since he's posted it on the interwebs, I'll link to it here. I haven't seen any other detailed posts on how to do this, there's a lot of thought and planning that goes into this design.
As @Andy_K pointed out, I built a frame around RTP tires when I took the UBI framebuilding class. John's been doing this a lot longer than I have, and I already see things I would do differently if I were to make another one. He's bending his own chainstays - I came to the conclusion that if I didn't want Rivendell Clem Smith Jr. length chainstays, one needs S-bends to get around the need for fat tires and chainring/crank arm clearance.
Do yourself a favor and go through his flickr album on this bike. It's pretty cool watching him solve the myriad problems that one comes up with when designing a "outside the envelope" bike frame.
As @Andy_K pointed out, I built a frame around RTP tires when I took the UBI framebuilding class. John's been doing this a lot longer than I have, and I already see things I would do differently if I were to make another one. He's bending his own chainstays - I came to the conclusion that if I didn't want Rivendell Clem Smith Jr. length chainstays, one needs S-bends to get around the need for fat tires and chainring/crank arm clearance.
Do yourself a favor and go through his flickr album on this bike. It's pretty cool watching him solve the myriad problems that one comes up with when designing a "outside the envelope" bike frame.
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Last edited by gugie; 09-01-18 at 10:52 AM.
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As much a slobbering fan of Compass tires that I am, I never considered building a bike around the tires.
Having said that, you need a cover for that electrical outlet in the wall.
Having said that, you need a cover for that electrical outlet in the wall.
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Oh, and note that John has a fire extinguisher next to that outlet. Safety Third!
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
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#13
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Super cool!
How reliable do you think the carbon brushes will be? It seems like they will be difficult to replace...
I have some experience with carbon brushes in an industrial application, but I was flexing them only in one direction at a low contact angle. I typically got about 500-800 km before they wore down or the pin became loose from its assembly and I had to implement some daily sanity checks to ensure they were behaving properly. I get that the rotation of the fork is practically negligible, but maybe the back-and-forth flexing of the brush will be a problem.
How reliable do you think the carbon brushes will be? It seems like they will be difficult to replace...
I have some experience with carbon brushes in an industrial application, but I was flexing them only in one direction at a low contact angle. I typically got about 500-800 km before they wore down or the pin became loose from its assembly and I had to implement some daily sanity checks to ensure they were behaving properly. I get that the rotation of the fork is practically negligible, but maybe the back-and-forth flexing of the brush will be a problem.
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Thanks! Carbon brushes: In the final analysis I had the same concerns and went with a brass brush on a copper ring. I always ask the folks I ride with to let me know if they see any odd behavior with the tail-light. No problems so far and I'm not the first to use that material paring for this job. I think it will work for the long haul.
Last edited by Jmclay; 09-01-18 at 01:46 PM. Reason: Because my proof reading stinks.
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I talked to a guy at one of the Norther Cycles swap meets about some cool fleur-de-lis lugs he was selling. He said you have to be careful with things like this. He called it the doorknob effect -- you find a unique doorknob that you really like and you end up building a house to go with it. Obviously the same thing can happen with tires.
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I like the thought process.
Buy the tires first... then build the frame.
I have a similar project in mind, but I've settled on the Surly Extraterrestrial tires. A bit wider, and perhaps tougher.
Buy the tires first... then build the frame.
I have a similar project in mind, but I've settled on the Surly Extraterrestrial tires. A bit wider, and perhaps tougher.
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You just need more Kool Aid.
I talked to a guy at one of the Norther Cycles swap meets about some cool fleur-de-lis lugs he was selling. He said you have to be careful with things like this. He called it the doorknob effect -- you find a unique doorknob that you really like and you end up building a house to go with it. Obviously the same thing can happen with tires.
I talked to a guy at one of the Norther Cycles swap meets about some cool fleur-de-lis lugs he was selling. He said you have to be careful with things like this. He called it the doorknob effect -- you find a unique doorknob that you really like and you end up building a house to go with it. Obviously the same thing can happen with tires.
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I'm pretty sure that "guy" you talked to was Jeff Lyon.
This is one of the really cool things about Portland. I have randomly met people like Mark DiNucci, Mark Nobilette, and Jeff Lyon just hanging around bike shops without even knowing who they were when I started talking to them. It's weird how these world class frame builders are actual people too.
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Hey, I'm sure those folks are saying to each other, "Do you realize that we met THE Andy K?!"
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Which dynamo hub will you be using? I guess you have to limit yourself to those that ground to the axle...
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I talked to a guy at one of the Norther Cycles swap meets about some cool fleur-de-lis lugs he was selling. He said you have to be careful with things like this. He called it the doorknob effect -- you find a unique doorknob that you really like and you end up building a house to go with it. Obviously the same thing can happen with tires.
I've been riding my BSP and CX (Clement, MXP tire) bikes on the red clay plantation roads around here a pretty good bit. Unless it's wet I prefer the BSP bike; I really like my CX bike and I use it a lot but the reality is that the BSP bike is better, faster, more comfortable unless it gets sloppy...and I could put knobbies on it. The RTP bike will be even better...and I can put knobbies on it, too!
Last edited by Jmclay; 09-02-18 at 10:47 AM.
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I like the Sanyo on my touring bike, too. I bought mine thinking it was a cheap way to dip my toe into the waters of dynamo lighting, and haven't bothered to upgrade at all some 5 years later... Rather than upgrading and downcycling the wheel to my city bike, I just bought a super cheap Shimano-hubbed wheel for the city bike. I even contemplated building a 26" Sanyo wheel this year on vacation here at my family's house in the USA, but the front wheel is fine and a battery light makes more sense for 1 dark ride on it every year.
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#25
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It looks as if the tail light is completely obscured by the brake cable straddle thingie. It is staring right at it.