TimothyH

If anyone has input, I'm interested in hearing about the grooved graphene brake track.

I'm wondering if the upgrade is worth $60/pair.


-Tim-

MinnMan

The Ardennes are a little older - about 5 years old, with the 23 mm rim width (17 mm inner width) and not the newer "Plus" variety. The LB are the Falcon 55 mm deep, 25 mm wide rims with DTSwiss 240 hubs and Sapim spokes.

The main difference simply is that the LB's are faster and more aero. I can't quantify this for you from personal measurement, but the"aero" feel of the deep section wheels is very noticeable. The ride is a little cushier b/c the tires sit a little wider, though that difference depends on tire choice and, other things being equal, would be a little less if you were buying the Ardennes Plus.

Braking, handling, and performance in cross winds are quite different. the handling is just an adjustment in "feel", both wheelsets handle fine. For the braking and cross winds - well, see lots of discussions. Also, there is a definite "sound" to the carbon wheels, particularly at high speeds, but not so pronounced that it bothers me.

I haven't done any serious climbing with the new wheels as yet. I think they are a tad lighter than my HEDs.

Marcus_Ti

HED rims are some of the nicest alloy rims you can get, OTOH you pay $$$ for them. The Belgium+ for example are $150/each retail.

The way the math works out, you can get a deeper and wider carbon rim that weighs about the same for only marginally more after all is said and done. Which will be (maybe) more aerodynamic depending on what tires you run etc.

IRL I priced out my Onyx/RR46C02 build at about $1100. A competent wheelbuilder using the same hubs and spokes but either HED Belgium or Easton EA90SL would come out to $1050 or so.

noodle soup

Ask @Rides4Beer . He has a set with the grooved brake track.

August West

How do you like the Onyx hub? I know there is a weight penalty with them but having a silent hub with instant engagement is appealing to me. I'm considering an RR36C02 build since it is pretty windy here about 3 months in the spring.

Marcus_Ti

I love em. They're dead silent, there's no reverb through your frame from a freewheel. And they're blingy. Make sure you have a SpurCycle bell to wake the cellphone-zombies out there, as your bike will no longer make any noise. Similar to DT Swiss, I do believe they have a 12-speed freehub upgrade in the works so you can use 12s microspline cassettes when they appear on road etc. Do note that in order to have a 15mm thru-front, you'll be using their MTB hub which is a bit chunkier than their CX/road hubs...and might stretch magnetless-speed-sensors rubber bands to/beyond their limit....so you get creative.


Totally worth it in my book. Then again I work in music all day, and want to get away from noise.

August West

Thanks. I value quietness also. My bike has ⌀12mm front & rear so I'm good there. And I ride mostly on near empty roads in the middle of nowhere. More cattle and western diamondbacks than humans

Although I don't need new wheels, it sure is tempting.

Robert A

Are there any qualitative differences in ride quality or bike handling?

MinnMan

yes.

Robert A

Thank you. Would you describe them?

Rides4Beer

I had nothing to compare them to before, since they were my first set of carbon wheels. But now I have a set of 88mm time trial wheels, with a standard basalt brake surface, and I can say that the braking is definitely better with the grooved track on the my LB wheels. I've had no problems at all with the LB wheels, even in heavy rain (not that I would plan for that, but I've gotten caught in the rain a few times and had no issues).

Marcus_Ti

BTW TBH engagement spacing only gets important when you gear down sub 1:1 as on an MTB or gravel bike. On say a roadie it is more of a cool parlor trick unless you competitive sprinting. Consider "low" engagement angle hubs, lets use the worst-case scenario one I can think of namely the DT Swiss hubs with the 18T star-ratchet (yes it can be upgraded, but I'm wanting an extreme example).

That yields a 20* angle of engagement--meaning, which means that the wheel must turn 20 degrees before engagement. BUT remember gearing, that is the WHEEL turning, not what you feel in the crankset. For example a 53:11, Every single crank revolution is equal to about 5(!) wheel revolutions---so at the crank it wouldn't take 20 degrees, rather only 1/90th (or 4 degrees) of a crank rotation to engage. Which, in that scenario, make engagement look like a "meh" quality.

Conversely, on my gravel bike I have a 30/32 low gear. Which means every crank revolution equals only 15/16ths of a wheel revolution. So that 20* engagement at the hub becomes 21.33 degrees at the cranks.....and the lower the low gear the worse it gets. Hence the thesis at the start about engagement on road being rather unimportant compared to CX or MTB or even gravel.





Handling is very dependent not only on wind conditions...but how big a tire you run, and how big a rider you are. Myself, being an 80-85kg cyclist (time of year and all) I get blown around less than say 60kg riders. Running 700x40mm class semi-slicks tires, they have a bigger contact patch and grip the road better and get deflected by gusts/wind much less than narrow road-racing slicks. It takes gusty/strong surface winds (30+ MPH at ground level) to push the wheels and me around---which on the Great Plains we do get regularly.


Ride quality--all about what size tire you run and what pressure it is. A wheel is/should-be a rigid object--if it is flexing it isn't strong enough for you.

MinnMan

What Marcus_Ti said is good info. It depends on the rider, the conditions, and the tires. For me, the most noticeable difference is that I get blown around in gusty cross winds more than I did on my HED Ardennes and I need to pay more attention to bike control under those conditions. I'm 155#, riding narrow tires (23 mm in the front, 25 mm in the back) with 55 mm deep wheels.

noodle soup

I went from a Bontrager rim that is similar in depth to the HED Ardennes, to the LB 56mm deep rim. I don't notice getting blown around that much, but the woman I ride with noticed that my line is no longer perfectly straight when riding in crosswinds.

There is a difference, but it's not so much that it feels sketchy in crosswinds.

MinnMan

This is close to how I would describe it also. Of course, it depends on the magnitude of the gusts. I don't feel unsafe in crosswinds, but I am aware that more active control is required and I am certain that my line is not as straight as it was. I'm still comfortable in a pace line.

TimothyH

Thank you for this. I really appreciate it.

I just ordered a pair of RRU35C02 rims with the grooved brake track.


-Tim-

noodle soup

Good choice. For the difference in weight over the 25mm hoops, I would have gone for the 35mm deep ones too(or the 36mm hoops).

TimothyH

This thread was really helpful, especially @superdex's review of how the deep section wheels feel on a bike with round tubes. @MinnMan's comments were helpful as well.

Time will tell but I'm hopeful that the few extra grams will be offset by a bit of aero. Even if it isn't, the wheels will be 1/2 lb lighter than whats on the bike now with the vast majority of that weight savings on the rim.

Light Bicycle was pretty easy to work with so far. Shipping isn't cheap though.


-Tim-

noodle soup

Hopefully you don’t get hit with the 25% tariff.

Doge

1130g /pair without skewers 5 years old. Just won CO pro crit last week. I don't think you gave me so much grief, but I go a lot. Thousands of race miles on them.

Remember these?

August West

Thanks. I certainly wasn't clear when I misstated "instant engagement". What I was referring to and should have written was "engagement feel". From what I have read the Onyx hub has a completely engagement feel than ratcheting type hubs which Onyx fans seem to love.

noodle soup

I can't recall saying anything about those wheels.

Obviously they worked well for your son, but I still wouldn't recommend them for the ham-and-eggers on this forum.

Doge

The general feedback I get is my stuff if too light, it won't last a season etc. I have found my tubular stuff to last decades. Clinches a few years at 300g more.

I ride similar, a bit heavier 20 hole Sapim cx-ray on 360# tandem.

Doge

Front has been around. Tubular.


This is about 25 years old

noodle soup

FTR, this thread isn't really about bicycle wheels that aren't heavy. It's about wheelsets made by the company Light Bicycle.