r8ingbull

Location is visted one day per week. Also I would challenge anyone here to haul 1000lbs 25 miles, ride the return trip, and be able to function in any form of a practical way afterwards.

An extra hour would cost $300-600 or more in certain instances.

What is necessary? Food, Water, Air? What else? Corporate profits? Who are any of use to judge the validity of someone elses resource use? Everyone uses and waste resources.

bragi

Have you considered 3-4 guys on bikes with bike trailers? Of course, the distance is a tough one, especially in the time you have available. To be honest, in your position I wouldn't sweat it. If you're only using a small high-milage truck once a week, you're still doing way better than most people. It's not like you're driving a Hummer all over town in search of puppies to run over.

makeinu

I'm well aware that the location is visited one day per week. You are asking us how to do the job without a car and one possible partial solution is to visit the location more than one day per week.

If you can't visit the location more than one day per week then that is one thing, but simply declaring that "I won't visit the location more than one day per week" is like saying "I won't park at the location". If you want to ride a car then you have to park and if you want to ride a bike then you'll have to make more than one trip. Thems the breaks. Obviously you can construct whatever rules you want to make the situation as difficult as possible to accomplish without a car (or even impossible). I'm just pointing out that there are plenty of solutions. You are just choosing to arbitrarily exclude those solutions.

There is no reason why you should have to haul half a ton 25 miles. Realistically, you could probably get that down to less than 500 pounds, which should be doable between two people (once you get in shape).

Oh! That changes everything! Since you're making $600 an hour I suggest you simply hire 20 day workers to carry it for you.

When I said "necessary" I meant that there are some situations which would be impossible to accomplish without a car and there are some business situations which would be impossible to accomplish without a car while still making a profit. However, this is not one of those situations.

JeffS

The whole discussion is backwards.

I could go get a weekend job tomorrow 30 miles away, then say "well, I have to drive because it's 30 miles away".

25 miles is a long way. There's absolutely no long closer? People wouldn't pay more if they didn't ALL have to drive 50 miles to play?

Out of curiosity... what is your motivation for wanting to do this without a car? It's obviously the easiest solution. You've stated that the business covers the expense.

kf5nd

Keep ignoring people's suggestions, and they'll start ignoring your questions!

r8ingbull

The first two posters in reply understood the question as a conversation starter. Many of the "solutions" have been crazy. Like I said, I challenge anyone on here to actually ride a load that heavy those distances and be worth a damn when done. Some posters came up with the rational idea of moving the event closer to home which is what we've done. Lease is signed with expected opeing dates of May 1st. Even still a car is the most practical method of transport

I see many new posters come here looking for ideas and help and they get the same BS responses. "flex car" "BUS" "cargo trike" "move closer to work" "etc". I will say the electric trucks were cool and I had never seen those. After the poster states counter reasons it oftens turns to "you don't really want to be car-free", as this post has.

It's not so much $600 an hour as one hour lost changes the schedule to only allow 1/2 as many guest. Very tight timing to get it done. I wish I could get some cheap reliable help

r8ingbull

While I would love to actually do this without a car, it isn't going to happen.

Also most of our guest come from 25 miles north-northwest of the location. I come from 25 miles east. location is centrally located.

I-Like-To-Bike

On this thread, it is easy to identify who is a self righteous judge.

JeffS

Yea, it's hard to get a mental picture. There's always issues that we can't understand.

Having "good intentions" not to drive in a world built around the automobile is tough.

LandLuger

Paintball, Speedball, etc. is a niche sport; born of a mature, wealthy society with lots of time to burn. Don't get me wrong the sport definitely has its merits--it is tremendously physically demanding for one, but I think its years are numbered. It will not be practical in the nearing future as the cheap energy disappears and our citizens are faced with more pressing issues--like putting food on the table. There isn't going to be a "soft landing" as some have suggested; I can't even get my neighbors to screw in an energy efficient light bulb much less bike to work. Even when investors go out on a limb and produce products like the Xebra PK and Tiger truck, business owners won't buy them because they only have a forty mile range (even though that accounts for 99% of their trips). In the OP's case I would probably side with Roody as his advice is practical and thought through as usual; it is just unfortunate that there are not more individuals willing to look past the $$$ of the moment to the metaphorical "train wreck" approaching right around the bend.

makeinu

The solutions have not been crazy at all. You just ignore all of them except the ones that weren't serious. For example, I don't realistically expect that anyone would actually ride a load that heavy those distances. The only reason I mentioned that was to show that it wouldn't be impossible.

The most practical solution is to simply leave the equipment on site and on the day you usually do maintenance ride a regular road bike to the site to do maintenance at the site. If there are a few maintenance tasks which are for some reason particularly troublesome then take those few pieces of equipment with you. You have many options on what will be the easiest way to do it. You could get one of those quads and carry those extra few pieces of equipment on maintenance day so that you aren't slowed down on event day (then you could take a regular road bike on event day) or you can carry half on maintenance day and half on event day (making extra time for yourself on event day as previously discussed).

You haven't stated any counter reasons to the many suggestions offered. In fact, every time you are pressed for counter reasons you keep reminding us that this thread is only for conversation purposes. Doesn't that mean that many viable solutions have been offered, but you won't be implementing them because "you don't really want to be car free"? I mean, when you say this thread is for conversation only doesn't that mean, "I don't want to be car free, but if I did want to be car free what would be the best/easiest way for me to do it"? If not then I am completely misunderstanding what you mean when you say this thread is "for conversation".

I didn't suggest a 1 hour change to the event schedule. I suggested 30 min off the event schedule and 30 min off the day job.

Also, you don't have to even do 30 min. I offered a whole host of solutions which are quite amenable to partial application. For example, you could start the event 15 minutes later and leave half the equipment requiring maintenance at the site, but you refuse to accept any solution that involves more change to your current methodology than replacing the gas pedals on your truck with a crank (Fred Flintstone style). Hence the comment that you don't really want to be car free.

Why is it so hard for people to admit that they just don't want to be car free? I freely admit that I could very well keep a car here in the city if I wanted to. I could buy a parking spot. I could get insurance. I could sit in rushhour traffic. I could move to the subburbs. I could drive a car, but I don't want to.

Yep, like the poster to which I'm replying right now.

makeinu

Here is a trike recumbent with a flatbed rated up to 700 pounds:
https://www.catoregon.org/hpm/trihaul.htm

It looks comfy and fun to ride. In fact, if I had somewhere to store it then I would consider buying one...maybe once they release the pedicab attachment.

Christof H

Okay, you want speed, since you are dealing with a lot of distance.
You want carrying capacity, since you are dealing with a lot of stuff.
You are dealing with a social sport, so there is opportunity for a social network game in this.

I'd suggest, if you want a real solution, assuming we don't have mountains involved, electric/human hybrids. The electric isn't there because a person can't shift the load, but to get you 18-24mph cruising speed. if you target 25mph, the commute becomes relaxing in a way.

2 people isn't quite enough, I'd try for 4 or even 6, with some form of social interaction as a binding for the group.

Mechanically, you want 600 watts at 36 volts, with larger battery packs and 20 or 24 inch drive wheels. Or, just go for 48 volt upgrades on 26 inch wheeled diamond frame bikes and call it good. add trailers, go.

There are even trailers with the hub motors in the trailer. I've ridden a dozen odd electric and human/electric bikes, never tried a trailer. I'm guessing it would take a touch of getting used to.

On a baw trailer, with a decent NIMH setup and brushless motors.... it would take sme work for me to get the total price tag under $1500 per bike/trailer (assuming 200 to 400 pounds cargo capacity per trailer)

goingbent gives you a real efficiency advantage, and if I could blue sky it I'd set up a dual motor tadpole bent trike with a medium baw trailer, dual 24 volt higher speed motors... on the flats you could go forever even using small SLA batteries because your amperage draw would be so low, in fact, with a tadpole bent pullingno more than 200 pounds per rider, electric might not even be worth it, you should be able to maintain 20-25mph easy in flatland

Christof H

Fantastic. Really. Good solutions and fresh thinking are important.

The answer to SOME situations IS to move closer. Obviously, not every case.

The zaps are cute, we have some in Davis, and a lot of GEMs. Still cars, so I don't tend to count them as solutions

Cargo carrying bikes, by and large, suffer from a design problem right now. Aside from trailers and the limits of the xtracycle, most of the stuff doesn't look like anything I'd want to spend 15 miles on.

cycleric

After reading this thread it seems to me the best solution would be the aforementioned "greasel" engine. While not strictly a car-free solution, it makes sense because it satisfies most of your goals both environmentally and economically. Break it down like this:

Goals for being car-free:
become environmentally sound, use sustainable energy alternatives, create better social atmospheres, reduce unneccessary consumption, spending, and waste, improve health

Goals for running a business:
turn a profit, provide useful goods and/or services that are in demand, maximize efficiency for best return on investments

These two practices need not be mutually exclusive, but incorporating both is a formidable challenge. I like all of the ideas that were suggested, (especially the work trikes, trailers, and electric assist motors) but it seems going car-free in this particular situation is impossible without giving up some of the basic assumptions presented to begin with. Consider these options and check how many of the goals each method satisfies:

Gas-power pros & cons:
Pros - fast, loadable, far ranging, not physically exhausting, highly profitable (at the moment, at least)
Cons - high cost of purchase, operation, and maintenance, harmful emissions, noisy, uses lots of space, promotes sedentary lifestyle

Human power pros & cons:
Pros - low cost of purchase, operation, and maintenance, zero harmful emissions, healthy, socially amicable, space-efficient, also can be very profitable
Cons - limited carrying capacity, speed, and range, physically exhausting

Veggie oil power pros and cons:
Pros - low cost of operation, zero harmful emissions, fast, loadable, far-ranging, not physically exhausting, highly profitable
Cons - high cost of purchase and maintenance, noisy, uses lots of space, promotes sedentary lifestyle

So human power satisfies all the goals of being car-free and sometimes the business goals. (depending on the circumstance) Gas power has no merit for being car-free (duh) but can satisfy business needs quite well. The Veggie oil hits two major goals in each pursuit; they are environmentally friendly AND it costs less to operate. So, I think that would make the best solution for a tough problem like this one. I think we should try as hard as we can to be independent from automotive consumerism using all those good ideas that came earlier in this thread, but if thats simply not going to cut it, at least we can make a better decision than what we are currently doing.

Artkansas 

Palm Springs isn't bad. Neither is San Diego or Santa Barbara.

derath

This is a funny thread. To the OP, here are some questions. It would be nice to get some honest answers. First off, for my own honesty, I am neither car free nor car lite. I am a consultant and by nature have many clients in many areas, which necessitates my use of a car. This is my choice and I am not asking how it could be made car free.

But for you, I have the following thoughts/questions.

1. Is there any storage capabilities at the 2 locations? If not have you ever looked into the possibilities of obtaining storage at the 2 locations (even gov't property does sometimes allow this, I know).

2. You stated earlier in the thread that you only visit each site once per week. Is this by choice? Or are you otherwise prohibited?

The thing I would consider is not how to transport that much gear. But how to stop needing to.

How much is your vehicle costing you per year. Ownership, licensing, registration, insurance, maintenance etc. If you got rid of all those expenses, would they give you enough to outfit each location with the necessary gear, that you could then leave in place?

-D

StephenH

The only solution I see with the terms stated is to move close to the paintball place, and ride the 25 miles back into town. That would get you some major exercise, would also get old, especially in bad weather.

Yeah, there's trikes and stuff that can haul all that, but you'd be doing good to make 10 miles an hour with that much weight- and that would be if it was perfectly level the whole way.

cutman

Rent one of those U-Haul vans. I've seen 'em everywhere with $19.99 plastered all over them. Probably $19.99 for the day, plus insurance. If you're only going 25 to 50 miles, you probably wouldn't incur any other costs besides taxes.

bragi

Couldn't you just store the heavy stuff near where you'll be using it? I imagine storage costs something, but probably not as much as a truck you rarely use. Maybe one of the paintball participants who lives nearby would let you store stuff on their property.

Or you could move the paintball site nearer to where you live.

mfennell

You're running a business that causes dozens (hundreds?) of people to make (approximately, given the info you provided) 50 mile roundtrip drives each Saturday from April-November. I would argue that your personal driving or not is completely in the noise.

Newspaperguy

For the original poster, I have a few random thoughts.

The way I see it, there are a couple of factors here. The distance from the site, the time you have to travel from one to the other and the amount of equipment you have to haul will all affect the options open to you.

The equipment alone is significant. Is it possible to have a steel storage box on the property for the stuff? In some cases, this is possible while in other cases, because of regulations or for other reasons, it is not possible.If your stuff is at the site, you may be able to arrive a little later and still have enough time for the set-up work. And your take-down time might also be shorter.

Your distance is a little too long for your timeline, or at least it is in my world. I'd need a lot more than an hour to go 25 miles. Is there a way to give yourself more time? This would allow you to cycle the distance, cool down and clean up and then open the site.

Considering your present needs, you might want to look at getting a cheap but reliable vehicle and using it for your hauling needs. This is not a car-free solution, but it's very much car-light. This would be my own preferred option. The car is now a work-related item, not a pleasure item. That changes things dramatically.

donrhummy

I think the only way to do this is to build an aerodynamic pedal-powered vehicle. It's the wind drag, not really the weight, that is really killing a pedal powered option. Of course, you'd need electric assistance for tough uphills too. The cost of making such a vehicle might be too much, but maybe you could contact one of those people who built the pedal-powered-speed-record vehicles because they might want to try building it as a challenge. They seem to like crazy challenges like that.