Children Riding to School Instead of Walking/Biking
07-30-18, 11:43 AM
#51
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None of the observations mentioned here have to be justified they have been in effect for years. The will of the parents to overturn the trend just gets weaker as time goes by.
Sure the interest is there but it comes from a super minority that simply doesn’t have the votes or political clout to change things. And it isn’t just here in the US.
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ling-to-school
That was 9 years ago in the U.K. move to San Diego county and add 3 years.
https://patch.com/california/imperia...ikes-to-school
how many posting here even have children that could attend school? In fact I wonder how many that are car free have families?
Sure the interest is there but it comes from a super minority that simply doesn’t have the votes or political clout to change things. And it isn’t just here in the US.
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ling-to-school
That was 9 years ago in the U.K. move to San Diego county and add 3 years.
https://patch.com/california/imperia...ikes-to-school
how many posting here even have children that could attend school? In fact I wonder how many that are car free have families?
07-30-18, 12:59 PM
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Getting kids ANYWHERE can be one of the biggest challenges of LCF. Presumably discussing ANYTHING related to getting anywhere, for any purpose, by any means is an "LCF" issue; presumably anything mentioning Carnival Cruises, airplane trips, cross country vacations, mountain climbing, bar hopping with buddies, etc. are more of the same kid challenged "LCF" issues.
07-30-18, 12:59 PM
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That IS the bottom line of this trip down the irrational rabbit hole of "observations", some of them rather bizarre and extreme, about how/why other people who are not car free get around and live their lives.
07-30-18, 01:17 PM
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In the situation of which I spoke, cars were disallowed as well. I can imagine all manner of circumstances where different decisions could be made, but I'll stick with real life and leave discussions on the imaginary to others.
07-30-18, 01:21 PM
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The "challenges" listed are similar in that they are NOT LCF issues.
If people voluntarily choose to restrict their own mobility, then they can expect numerous challenges, especially in transporting children and/or disabled and or elderly dependents. They can expect little sympathy from the general public about problems and challenges created by their own decisions. Also there will be very little empathy for snow-flaky whining about the oh-so-difficult challenge for car free people dealing with traffic near school dropoff/pickup points.
07-30-18, 01:32 PM
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In the situation that I was personally familiar with, yes the decision was justified and there was nothing insane about it.
In the situation of which I spoke, cars were disallowed as well. I can imagine all manner of circumstances where different decisions could be made, but I'll stick with real life and leave discussions on the imaginary to others.
In the situation of which I spoke, cars were disallowed as well. I can imagine all manner of circumstances where different decisions could be made, but I'll stick with real life and leave discussions on the imaginary to others.
07-30-18, 01:34 PM
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My daughter walked to school from 3rd through 6th grade. Her twin brother rode his bicycle. It was about 1/2 mile.
The "challenges" listed are similar in that they are NOT LCF issues.
If people voluntarily choose to restrict their own mobility, then they can expect numerous challenges, especially in transporting children and/or disabled and or elderly dependents. They can expect little sympathy from the general public about problems and challenges created by their own decisions. Also there will be very little empathy for snow-flaky whining about the oh-so-difficult challenge for car free people dealing with traffic near school dropoff/pickup points.
The "challenges" listed are similar in that they are NOT LCF issues.
If people voluntarily choose to restrict their own mobility, then they can expect numerous challenges, especially in transporting children and/or disabled and or elderly dependents. They can expect little sympathy from the general public about problems and challenges created by their own decisions. Also there will be very little empathy for snow-flaky whining about the oh-so-difficult challenge for car free people dealing with traffic near school dropoff/pickup points.
07-30-18, 01:37 PM
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My daughter walked to school from 3rd through 6th grade. Her twin brother rode his bicycle. It was about 1/2 mile.
The "challenges" listed are similar in that they are NOT LCF issues.
If people voluntarily choose to restrict their own mobility, then they can expect numerous challenges, especially in transporting children and/or disabled and or elderly dependents. They can expect little sympathy from the general public about problems and challenges created by their own decisions. Also there will be very little empathy for snow-flaky whining about the oh-so-difficult challenge for car free people dealing with traffic near school dropoff/pickup points.
The "challenges" listed are similar in that they are NOT LCF issues.
If people voluntarily choose to restrict their own mobility, then they can expect numerous challenges, especially in transporting children and/or disabled and or elderly dependents. They can expect little sympathy from the general public about problems and challenges created by their own decisions. Also there will be very little empathy for snow-flaky whining about the oh-so-difficult challenge for car free people dealing with traffic near school dropoff/pickup points.
07-30-18, 02:17 PM
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Heaven Forbid, that car-free people should advocate for their own interests, which only arise from their Own Decisions™ That's only appropriate behavior for those who actually cause the problem, and those who merely deal with the adverse effects of it without contributing to it should just stop whining.
07-30-18, 02:20 PM
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07-30-18, 03:03 PM
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That's irrelevant. You just don't want it said, apparently. You seem very biased, along with certain others here. You're one of the people I suspect has some kind of auto lobbyist connection or something that causes you to spend time on an LCF forum defending cars and discouraging people from wanting to go without them.
07-30-18, 04:56 PM
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That's irrelevant. You just don't want it said, apparently. You seem very biased, along with certain others here. You're one of the people I suspect has some kind of auto lobbyist connection or something that causes you to spend time on an LCF forum defending cars and discouraging people from wanting to go without them.
07-30-18, 05:12 PM
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Do you believe the people telling kids they cannot ride a bike to school care if the parents would like to be car free?
Sometimes it is all about avoiding dealing with problems people don't want to deal with. There is no conspiracy in reality there are only people acting like people act.
07-30-18, 05:51 PM
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You could LCF and still lobby for the auto industry. You could literally get paid by anyone from lobbying groups to marketing agencies to just working at a car dealership and posting here in a way that defends and promotes your product. You are obviously in favor of auto business because you like what it does for the economy, but I don't think I've ever gotten a straight answer out of you or anyone else here if they actually get paid by auto-related businesses. The only person who has directly said anything about that is Machka, who said that the parent brand of Bike Forums, Internet Brands I think it's called, is pro-car. Idk if that means they actively support people here who ridicule LCF and defend car culture or what, but she said that they are pro-car, whatever that means.
And you will not research any of it to find out because that is how you are. Yes I like a healthy economy. No I do not work for the auto industry. No I do not lobby for the auto industry. No more than I work for the housing industry, air conditioning industry or Camping industry.
I think people riding their bikes to schools and workplaces is a form of transportation biking, which is an alternative to driving.
I did not ask what people riding their bikes was, I asked if you thought the majority of people posting here were car free? If you are going to accuse people of coming here to discourage car free living you must think anyone that isn't car free is suspect?
People don't do enough to avoid dealing with the problems of traffic congestion and other problems of car culture. They deny the problems because they (falsely) normalize driving as a form of transportation and think of other modes as optional.
And you will not research any of it to find out because that is how you are. Yes I like a healthy economy. No I do not work for the auto industry. No I do not lobby for the auto industry. No more than I work for the housing industry, air conditioning industry or Camping industry.
I think people riding their bikes to schools and workplaces is a form of transportation biking, which is an alternative to driving.
I did not ask what people riding their bikes was, I asked if you thought the majority of people posting here were car free? If you are going to accuse people of coming here to discourage car free living you must think anyone that isn't car free is suspect?
People don't do enough to avoid dealing with the problems of traffic congestion and other problems of car culture. They deny the problems because they (falsely) normalize driving as a form of transportation and think of other modes as optional.
People not walking or not being able to ride a bike to school is a different issue than what you think. It is an issue between the parents of the kids and the school district. It is something to vote on and go to school board meeting on. And it is something that has been an issue for years as I posted earlier. Cars are normalized because, gasp, people have chosen them as the favorite for of transportation. Everyone has a right to advocate for their form of transportation. Conversely no one has any obligation to agree with or come over to your assessment as to what is best for them. I can and do have a right to disagree with your assessment and if I do vote against what you feel is best and vote for what I feel is best for my family and friends. You can not falsely normalize anything that is normal and accepted by society as normal.
I short you can not make those that are car light join your car free lifestyle if they don't want to. You can not make schools embrace your concept of safe and healthy if nine of ten other parents don't support your idea. Go to some meetings, voice your opinion. Do you have school children if not they will not listen to you. If so explain why you want to have them ride a bike to school. That is how things work. Then if a vote is taken and you lose that too is how things work.
07-30-18, 08:27 PM
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People not walking or not being able to ride a bike to school is a different issue than what you think. It is an issue between the parents of the kids and the school district. It is something to vote on and go to school board meeting on. And it is something that has been an issue for years as I posted earlier. Cars are normalized because, gasp, people have chosen them as the favorite for of transportation. Everyone has a right to advocate for their form of transportation. Conversely no one has any obligation to agree with or come over to your assessment as to what is best for them. I can and do have a right to disagree with your assessment and if I do vote against what you feel is best and vote for what I feel is best for my family and friends. You can not falsely normalize anything that is normal and accepted by society as normal.
I short you can not make those that are car light join your car free lifestyle if they don't want to. You can not make schools embrace your concept of safe and healthy if nine of ten other parents don't support your idea. Go to some meetings, voice your opinion. Do you have school children if not they will not listen to you. If so explain why you want to have them ride a bike to school. That is how things work. Then if a vote is taken and you lose that too is how things work.
I short you can not make those that are car light join your car free lifestyle if they don't want to. You can not make schools embrace your concept of safe and healthy if nine of ten other parents don't support your idea. Go to some meetings, voice your opinion. Do you have school children if not they will not listen to you. If so explain why you want to have them ride a bike to school. That is how things work. Then if a vote is taken and you lose that too is how things work.
07-30-18, 10:09 PM
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It's not quite how things work, because culture can be biased and majorities can be wrong. I've explained this to you numerous times but you want to believe that people are free to think however they want AND be right by forming a majority. It's just not the way reality works. Even if 100% of people love cars and hate bikes and walking, you can't fit everyone's cars on the road without clearing large numbers of trees, and you can't clear trees and build sprawl without causing unhappiness. That's just fundamental to nature and people who deny it are just setting themselves and future generations up for misery. Even when 0% of people choose for LCF, it is still right to advocate for the infrastructure and liberty to choose alternative transportation effectively, because that gives people the freedom to change their preference from driving to other modes and LCF. And no I can't make anyone who is car light choose to go car free, but I can say what driving does to the environment and note how culture works and discuss all aspects of it. Then, you can always spin it back in the direction of majorities and authority to do wrong instead of right, but you are on the wrong side of history, and why should I deny that?
Admit it you don’t really care about kids riding bikes to school. You accused me of working for tge auto industry with no more information than you had on where nuclear material was extracted from. You talk about Caring about sprawl and pavement and then fail to grasp that you will need more buildings and pavement to support 10 billion people rather than the 7.5 we now have.
Advocate all you want and maybe write more posts in a forum occupied by one of the smaller groups on the web. But till you get out to a school board meeting or have a meeting with a school principle you are spitting in the wind.
People have been dealing with the walking and biking to school issue for years, you didn’t just discover it. Look at the links I posted. Fighting with some of us here will not get your point across and that too is just how it works. Only going to talk with parents and school districts will have any effect. But I know, you are just into thinking about these things. How is that working for you again?
07-31-18, 03:05 AM
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07-31-18, 06:51 AM
#68
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Admit it you don’t really care about kids riding bikes to school. You accused me of working for tge auto industry with no more information than you had on where nuclear material was extracted from. You talk about Caring about sprawl and pavement and then fail to grasp that you will need more buildings and pavement to support 10 billion people rather than the 7.5 we now have.
Do I not care about kids riding bikes to school? Of course I do. It is one of the first issues that caused me to see LCF as a broader issue. When I was young, there were kids who could ride their bikes to school and others who lived too far away. I wanted to be one of the ones who could, and by the time I went to college I could, and later I realized that the distances weren't too great to have done it when I was younger, but it was a cultural mentality and a lack of secure infrastructure that prevented parents from allowing kids to ride across busy roads, etc. If you take a look at some city or town near Amsterdam, you will see that kids bike longer distances because the bike infrastructure is more trustworthy from a parental standpoint. Why shouldn't every kid and adult have that same security to go anywhere on a bike, regardless of where they live in the world?
Advocate all you want and maybe write more posts in a forum occupied by one of the smaller groups on the web. But till you get out to a school board meeting or have a meeting with a school principle you are spitting in the wind.
People have been dealing with the walking and biking to school issue for years, you didn’t just discover it. Look at the links I posted. Fighting with some of us here will not get your point across and that too is just how it works. Only going to talk with parents and school districts will have any effect. But I know, you are just into thinking about these things. How is that working for you again?
07-31-18, 08:01 AM
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I think I have similar views to his.
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07-31-18, 08:41 AM
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That's irrelevant. You just don't want it said, apparently. You seem very biased, along with certain others here. You're one of the people I suspect has some kind of auto lobbyist connection or something that causes you to spend time on an LCF forum defending cars and discouraging people from wanting to go without them.
As for changing the behavior of parents who drive their kids to school, instead of encouraging them to walk or bike, the benefits of walking and cycling have been talked about for at least two generations. Similarly, the risks of a sedentary life style and general inactivity have received lots of media attention for the same time. I doubt discussing this on LCF will change anyones behavior.
07-31-18, 09:09 AM
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As for changing the behavior of parents who drive their kids to school, instead of encouraging them to walk or bike, the benefits of walking and cycling have been talked about for at least two generations. Similarly, the risks of a sedentary life style and general inactivity have received lots of media attention for the same time. I doubt discussing this on LCF will change anyones behavior.
07-31-18, 09:24 AM
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Here is the point. It doesn’t matter what my opinion on kids walking to or riding bikes to school is. What makes it true is there are fewer kids walking and riding than there once was. That in all off this debate is agreed upon. That then is truth. What people could do is theory. Parents have responded to their needs, fears and perceptions in many ways and in the end fewer kids are walking or riding. That is reality. What they could or should do is wishful thinking.
another truth is when you open a subject for debate you can expect people to disagree with you. The less popular your position the more opposition you will get. Once again truth.
lastly when culture or society or the majority move to accept something as normal and more convenient they do so with as much passion and reasoning as the one that don’t accept those changes. They aren’t fighting your idea they just don’t care. They stopped caring when they accepted their new direction.
That is is why I asked how your method of changing culture or society to your ideas are working. Have you tried to take on the political school boards? Have you ever asked a principle why the don’t allow or support bicycles? If the answer is no then all you are attempting to do is preach to the choir. The people that could make change happen never hear your message and as I said earlier, don’t care.
So again do you have kids kids in school and have you done anything to address this issue in your community? If not how is your method working?
To you it doesn't, but in your mind your opinion is the absolute truth. What you don't understand is that there is a difference between my opinion and my analysis of car culture and LCF. There was a time when I was young when I liked cars, I liked understanding the mechanics of them and fixing them, I liked driving them and developing the fine motor skills to control a clutch, shift at the right moment, plan an optimal line through a turn, develop double-clutch braking, etc. I watched racing. That was my opinion, then, but as I got older the problems of car culture became clear to me as outweighing the indulgent pleasures of it. That is not an opinion. It is putting the fact of greater good over opinion. You don't like that, and you claim that the majority of people don't either, but that is just their opinion and selfish failure to prioritize the greater good over their personal preferences. The more people do that, the worse the overall consequences. If you can't see that, it's because you whitewash what you want to believe.
I have lots of information about how you construct your opinions from your posts and that indicates to me that you are strongly biased against acknowledging anything negative about car culture. It is as if you have a manager who would fire you if you didn't defend against LCF in every way possible. It's not just you. ILTB and several others who post here frequently are like this. I will always have to wonder, because none of you will ever do anything more than deflecting the question.
Do I not care about kids riding bikes to school? Of course I do. It is one of the first issues that caused me to see LCF as a broader issue. When I was young, there were kids who could ride their bikes to school and others who lived too far away. I wanted to be one of the ones who could, and by the time I went to college I could, and later I realized that the distances weren't too great to have done it when I was younger, but it was a cultural mentality and a lack of secure infrastructure that prevented parents from allowing kids to ride across busy roads, etc. If you take a look at some city or town near Amsterdam, you will see that kids bike longer distances because the bike infrastructure is more trustworthy from a parental standpoint. Why shouldn't every kid and adult have that same security to go anywhere on a bike, regardless of where they live in the world?
Most school boards are politically controlled by specific interests so, you're right, if they are biased against biking, it will be pointless to make a case to them about supporting kids biking. Principals are beholden to them. You can, however, promote biking to the public and the public may come to question why the school board is not doing more to support kids biking. It just depends on whether people can overcome the car-culture mentality that driving is just the way things are and every other mode should just give up and give in. It's very sad that the auto industry and infrastructure culture has caused such defeatism, but someone like you doesn't care about that because you just see the dollar signs when everyone gives in to car ownership.
This is an LCF forum. I came across the article, which is current, and posted it for public discussion in a forum where people would likely be interested in the topic. That's all. Can you not understand that? Someone writes and publishes an article, and then the point is for people to read and discuss it. That's what a discussion forum is for. Your mind comes up with arguments against everything because you like to fight. Look at your avatar, for goodness sake.
I have lots of information about how you construct your opinions from your posts and that indicates to me that you are strongly biased against acknowledging anything negative about car culture. It is as if you have a manager who would fire you if you didn't defend against LCF in every way possible. It's not just you. ILTB and several others who post here frequently are like this. I will always have to wonder, because none of you will ever do anything more than deflecting the question.
Do I not care about kids riding bikes to school? Of course I do. It is one of the first issues that caused me to see LCF as a broader issue. When I was young, there were kids who could ride their bikes to school and others who lived too far away. I wanted to be one of the ones who could, and by the time I went to college I could, and later I realized that the distances weren't too great to have done it when I was younger, but it was a cultural mentality and a lack of secure infrastructure that prevented parents from allowing kids to ride across busy roads, etc. If you take a look at some city or town near Amsterdam, you will see that kids bike longer distances because the bike infrastructure is more trustworthy from a parental standpoint. Why shouldn't every kid and adult have that same security to go anywhere on a bike, regardless of where they live in the world?
Most school boards are politically controlled by specific interests so, you're right, if they are biased against biking, it will be pointless to make a case to them about supporting kids biking. Principals are beholden to them. You can, however, promote biking to the public and the public may come to question why the school board is not doing more to support kids biking. It just depends on whether people can overcome the car-culture mentality that driving is just the way things are and every other mode should just give up and give in. It's very sad that the auto industry and infrastructure culture has caused such defeatism, but someone like you doesn't care about that because you just see the dollar signs when everyone gives in to car ownership.
This is an LCF forum. I came across the article, which is current, and posted it for public discussion in a forum where people would likely be interested in the topic. That's all. Can you not understand that? Someone writes and publishes an article, and then the point is for people to read and discuss it. That's what a discussion forum is for. Your mind comes up with arguments against everything because you like to fight. Look at your avatar, for goodness sake.
Here is the point. It doesn’t matter what my opinion on kids walking to or riding bikes to school is. What makes it true is there are fewer kids walking and riding than there once was. That in all off this debate is agreed upon. That then is truth. What people could do is theory. Parents have responded to their needs, fears and perceptions in many ways and in the end fewer kids are walking or riding. That is reality. What they could or should do is wishful thinking.
another truth is when you open a subject for debate you can expect people to disagree with you. The less popular your position the more opposition you will get. Once again truth.
lastly when culture or society or the majority move to accept something as normal and more convenient they do so with as much passion and reasoning as the one that don’t accept those changes. They aren’t fighting your idea they just don’t care. They stopped caring when they accepted their new direction.
That is is why I asked how your method of changing culture or society to your ideas are working. Have you tried to take on the political school boards? Have you ever asked a principle why the don’t allow or support bicycles? If the answer is no then all you are attempting to do is preach to the choir. The people that could make change happen never hear your message and as I said earlier, don’t care.
So again do you have kids kids in school and have you done anything to address this issue in your community? If not how is your method working?
07-31-18, 09:49 AM
#73
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What makes it true is there are fewer kids walking and riding than there once was. That in all off this debate is agreed upon. That then is truth. What people could do is theory. Parents have responded to their needs, fears and perceptions in many ways and in the end fewer kids are walking or riding. That is reality. What they could or should do is wishful thinking.
another truth is when you open a subject for debate you can expect people to disagree with you. The less popular your position the more opposition you will get. Once again truth.
lastly when culture or society or the majority move to accept something as normal and more convenient they do so with as much passion and reasoning as the one that don’t accept those changes. They aren’t fighting your idea they just don’t care. They stopped caring when they accepted their new direction.
That is is why I asked how your method of changing culture or society to your ideas are working. Have you tried to take on the political school boards? Have you ever asked a principle why the don’t allow or support bicycles? If the answer is no then all you are attempting to do is preach to the choir. The people that could make change happen never hear your message and as I said earlier, don’t care.
So again do you have kids kids in school and have you done anything to address this issue in your community? If not how is your method working?
07-31-18, 11:39 AM
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Sure it matters. You are a person entitled to an opinion and others should respect your opinion. They don't have to agree with it, and they can dispute the way you understand things and assumptions you make, the way you think, etc. but they/we should respect you as a thinking individual with an opinion, regardless of how much we disagree with you.
You're mixing up reality and subjectivity, which you often do to be honest. It may be true that fewer kids are walking and riding than in the past. It may also be true that there are subjective/cultural patterns that influence them, but that doesn't make those patters objective fact. Bias can grow and spread. The moment it crosses the 50% threshold doesn't turn it into a fact. What you call 'wishful thinking' can become a determinant cause of reality on a broad scale when enough people act to make dreams come true. Once upon a time universal car ownership was wishful thinking but now that dream has come true for many people/places in the world, so much so that it has morphed into a nightmare in many ways. If people deny the nightmare aspects of it, that may be wishful thinking; but as you prove, denial is no weak force.
I don't expect agreement, but this is an LCF forum so when I post an article about kids biking less to school, I expect people to see this as a negative thing and I don't see why I should have to listen to a bunch of car-culture-defenders argue about how driving is their choice, or otherwise be anti-supportive of LCF.
Their indifference is bad.
The question is why aren't you in the choir? You are here to attack the choir and for some reason you won't just acknowledge that. I really don't like everyone to agree for the sake of agreeing. Anything in lockstep bothers my sense of independence, really. But you are just locked in opposition to LCF, in defense of and in favor of car-culture. You post here for no other reason than to fight against people who are in favor of LCF.
If you're asking me how it feels to fail at changing the world for the better, why don't you ask yourself how it feels to fail at choosing the right side of history?
You're mixing up reality and subjectivity, which you often do to be honest. It may be true that fewer kids are walking and riding than in the past. It may also be true that there are subjective/cultural patterns that influence them, but that doesn't make those patters objective fact. Bias can grow and spread. The moment it crosses the 50% threshold doesn't turn it into a fact. What you call 'wishful thinking' can become a determinant cause of reality on a broad scale when enough people act to make dreams come true. Once upon a time universal car ownership was wishful thinking but now that dream has come true for many people/places in the world, so much so that it has morphed into a nightmare in many ways. If people deny the nightmare aspects of it, that may be wishful thinking; but as you prove, denial is no weak force.
I don't expect agreement, but this is an LCF forum so when I post an article about kids biking less to school, I expect people to see this as a negative thing and I don't see why I should have to listen to a bunch of car-culture-defenders argue about how driving is their choice, or otherwise be anti-supportive of LCF.
Their indifference is bad.
The question is why aren't you in the choir? You are here to attack the choir and for some reason you won't just acknowledge that. I really don't like everyone to agree for the sake of agreeing. Anything in lockstep bothers my sense of independence, really. But you are just locked in opposition to LCF, in defense of and in favor of car-culture. You post here for no other reason than to fight against people who are in favor of LCF.
If you're asking me how it feels to fail at changing the world for the better, why don't you ask yourself how it feels to fail at choosing the right side of history?
What is your concept if car free is as you posted in another thread car sharing has increased car traffic after you predicted it wouldn’t? If Uber and Lyft have added to car use what will you concept of self driving cars do? Admit it you don’t have a clue. You have a dream.
Have you ever ever listened to parents talk about these issues? Have you ever debated them with a school district representative? No? I have and have expressed their reasoning as does some of the links I posted.
The idea if transportation will will be made by all of the people operating under the same constraints as they do today and like it or not they will pick the one that is easiest for them.
Based on your concept of working for less and living constrained to only the area you can travel by human power I do not believe your concept of history is more likely than mine. I see no evidence that the world is moving in that direction. I am sure you will let us know when the rest of the world gives up trying to become more car dependent. My only hope is it might be less ICE dependent.
07-31-18, 12:02 PM
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Wrong, if the bad guys fight hard enough they win and the result is dystopia, not utopia. Might doesn't make right.
In order to fight against threats to car-culture when they dare to raise their heads, I assume.
No, I have a good understanding of things that is deeper than yours, which is biased toward taking any situation and spinning it as an ultimate failure of LCF.
You might know that beating kids is wrong, but try arguing with a parent who beats their kid and believes they are doing right to raise them that way. You're not going to convince them, and you might get in a fight; but that doesn't make you wrong that less violent child rearing is better.
The point is that you revel in that because you want cars to win. That is your bias, but you'll never admit it for some reason, and you won't say why you bring it into an LCF forum.
Like I said, you might be right that majorities win, but you are still on the wrong side when you validate it. Maybe you can only feel powerful by taking sides with majorities and winners against minorities and losers, idk.
I already do more than people that just sit back and talk. I go to meetings and listen to parents and business owners. I have visited other countries coming into parity with the west and talked and listened to their dreams.
What is your concept if car free is as you posted in another thread car sharing has increased car traffic after you predicted it wouldn’t? If Uber and Lyft have added to car use what will you concept of self driving cars do? Admit it you don’t have a clue. You have a dream.
Have you ever ever listened to parents talk about these issues? Have you ever debated them with a school district representative? No? I have and have expressed their reasoning as does some of the links I posted.
The idea if transportation will will be made by all of the people operating under the same constraints as they do today and like it or not they will pick the one that is easiest for them.
Based on your concept of working for less and living constrained to only the area you can travel by human power I do not believe your concept of history is more likely than mine. I see no evidence that the world is moving in that direction. I am sure you will let us know when the rest of the world gives up trying to become more car dependent. My only hope is it might be less ICE dependent.