paulf99223

I am building a new to me F10 disc frame up and trying to decide on wheels. Sorely tempted by the Enve 4.5 AR seems like a good balance of aero and weight. Wondering if any one has run these wheels and 28mm tires in there f10 disc? How was the clearance? Love to have picture of how it looks on your bike.

cgates66

I asked almost this exact question in. re. a different frameset that I'm building up right now. You want to run aero wheels, you know that the tires can't balloon beyond the rim/tire boundary or you lose the benefit and 4.5 AR are a natural choice. The answer I got - and this was for a 28c-clearance (probably 30mm actual) - was that 4.5 ARs will result in a tire much, much wider than 28mm and likely wouldn't work for the frame I'm building. The internal width on the 4.5AR is 25mm, so nominally 28mm tires (on a 17mm internal rim) would be ~31 - 32mm (every mm of internal width results in ~0.4mm greater tire width when mounted - this is a rough estimate, huge variance in tires etc. etc.).


I'm assuming you mean, by the way, a 28c tire on a 4.5AR. A 28mm actual of course would work. On a 4.5 AR, though, that means certain 25c tires (probably not GP4000SII - those things are huge). EDIT: I don't believe you can run 25c tires on 4.5 AR wheels!


Now again, I'm not building an F10 so anyone that has one can take a measurement for you of the chain stay width, fork, etc., but I reckon the general issues are similar.


My solution was the HED Vanquish GP 6 (the "light" Vanquish doesn't haven a 28-hole drilling), which has a 21mm internal width. I'm not running tubeless, but they are designed for it. I also looked at the Cannonade Knot 64 wheels, but as a heavyweight (215#), I prefer more or heavier spokes and didn't want to re-build right away or after the inevitable failure. As far as I can tell, those are the only "wide" carbon rims other than 4.5ARs from "name" manufacturers.


The 4.5ARs are really cool, but I think ENVE designed them for something other than a road race bike. Probably well-matched to the cobblestone bikes (Roubaix etc.).


Anyway, that's what I came away with. YMMV.

paulf99223

Thanks a ton for the details. It all makes sense, Hopefully someone with an F10 will get back to me or I'll just wait to order the wheels till I have the frame. Are you OK with crosswinds on a 60mm rim front and rear with the HED wheels?

cgates66

No experience yet in winds on the HEDs, but I have been riding other 60mm wheels for the past five years or so and don't expect much difference. Like others, in gusty crosswinds - you'll notice. I haven't been overly troubled, but this to me is very much based on (i) personal tolerance and (ii) rider weight. Caveat: I live in an area with rolling terrain so don't do frequent high-speed descents. If this is a significant concern there may well be 40s that are "wide" (and aren't 4.5 ARs) - I haven't looked into it carefully enough to offer an opinion.

aclinjury

Enve 4.5 AR ain't fast wheels if you wanna go fast. They're more gravel wheels. Aero wheels can't wide and relatively shallow and use 28c tires.

clarc

This is a subject that can be argued for one way or another, so there is no clear winner, but since you have an Italian bike I hope you went with the Campy, Campy is the only groupset that should set on your bike.








snaptube telegram web

Noctilux.95

I would go with Campagnolo Bora WTO 45mm or 60mm. I’ve owned Zipp NSW’s and Enve SES’s in the last three years and find the Campy stiffer, more responsive, and better in the cross winds. Plus they look better. And please don’t bring up the whole don’t mix Campy with Shimano bit. These wheels are too damn good to care about silly traditions.

paulf99223

Thanks for all the input. I ended up with ENVE SES 3.4 disc, the fit is great with plenty of room for 25 or 28mm tires. They're faster than any wheel I've owned.

joeminglin

Why did you go with the 3.4 vs 4.5 ARs?

paulf99223

I went with the 3.4's as they seemed a better fit for the Road bike use. I've been happy with them generally. But I am a bit surprised how much difference there is in crosswind behaviour on high speed (35MPH plus bike speed and maybe 15MPH or faster gusts) descents at shallow attack angles to the wind I can feel a dramatic shift if the wind changes from one side of the wheel to the other on a corner. It's unnerving and I am still not used to it. I traded out with the person riding my old Rim brake Dogma with original 3.4's on the same ride and they did not have near the same squirrely feel. Anyone else notice this? I was surprised that the 3mm in height had that much effect. I have not tried the 4.5 but am glad I did not get anything deeper and I am happy riding the 25mm tires on the SES 3.4's at about 85 PSI, the bike is fast and accelerates wel. Other than feeling lighter and quicker in the front end the F10 performs just a bit better than the older Dogma while maintaining the handling charachteristics and feedback I love. If I were building a gravel bike I would consider the 4.5 for width, but why would you get that deep a wheel when aero is less critical at lower gravel cruising speeds when you could choose a lighter weight wheelset. I think I'd get a shallower wheel of that width for a gravel bike rather than the 4.5AR.