FasterNearGirls

I've been experiencing new issues with my fit and can hardly diagnose them since I keep changing around and tweaking.
Background, changes and current/latest symptoms follow. Apologies if it's too much info and if it's confusing, but I need to just dump it all here and maybe someone's input will help.

Got a new bike in September. Pro fit in October - we slammed the stem, extended it, lowered saddle, inserted wedges on cleats. Lot of changes!!

I swapped saddles at one point and may have lowered it even more by mistake.

Got a fit follow-up a few months later (1.5months ago) as I never felt as powerful. We raised the saddle as I apparently had lowered it, and we raised the bar as well. Also, I had just tilted the saddle like 1 degree nose down due to numbness.

This started to bother my right knee. Front. Patella/knee cap. I raised the saddle more. Felt super strong. But my knee remained inflamed - not sure if from doing 70 mile hilly ride hammering on the bothersome position. Lot of naproxen but can't stop riding for more than a couple days as I have races and things going on.

I flattened the seat again and moved it forward and raised it even more. Not sure what it's doing for my knee, I'm not over extending.

But now the latest issue, something I had never experienced - neck and upper back pain and stiffness.

I'm moving the saddle back and giving that a try tonight.
I've been riding a good amount, with a couple 60+ mile rides/wk, some recovery rides, some high intensity rides, and a couple crits on the weekends. Race this Sat.

Sorry again for the confusing post. I just feel miserable today as I am in pain. Rode a lot this weekend. Need to address the neck issue and the knee issue!

The handlebar is currently one spacer lower than the last fit in which we had raised 3 spacers from 0.
Stem is 120mm.
To make this post at least OK - here's a pic -

thanks in advance.

pdedes

you need to log the baseline measurements from which you may wish to depart. while the bike looks solidly pro, your body might not be ready for it. the first thing I would do is to rotate your handlebars so the bottom of the drop is a bit more level. next, unwrap your bars, move the hoods of your levers towards you, perhaps .5-1 cm. that will effectively shorten your reach, and not stress your neck/shoulders quite as much as you are looking forward. good luck.

WhyFi

Too much crap to read, so I'm assuming that you're all out of whack.

The cranks don't move, so I'd start from the feet up: Cleat position (shims?) > saddle height/setback/tilt > drop/reach/bar rotation

CALE262

Best thing I ever did was get a "Guru fit system" fitting. Fixed so many minute issues and best of all you can see the power increases and losses with real time adjustments while you're riding. Check out a couple youtube vids.

lazerzxr

If you put your heel on the pedal and back pedal, does you heel stay in contact with the pedal with your foot parallel to the floor and your hips level? You say you have raised your seat a few times, its easy to get lost so this is a good check to bring you back in the ballpark. It also accounts for changes in setback. If it was me, id want much more setback than you have to get comfortable. all the fitters I have ever seen want to push me forward but the fact is I like my setback, I'm a full 30mm further back than any fitter puts me and very happy with it.

Hapsmo911

Pic with you on the bike would help. Sounds like maybe either bar to low or too stretched. Hard to say without pics

FasterNearGirls

Solidly pro! Yeah!
The drops are pretty level, the pic angle is bad. I could use 1cm shorter stem, my stock one. But I was thinking maybe I need to extend the reach. I really don't know which way to go with anything anymore! but thanks!

FasterNearGirls

Nice video, thanks. I'd like to get that and/or a retul fit...

FasterNearGirls

Right, saddle is probably too high now. Felt stronger and better on my knee. But probably shifted my weight onto shoulders.

FasterNearGirls

Found a couple terrible pics from a recent crit. note I raised my saddle a little =~ 3mm after that due to the knee issue.
Should recognize me with the reynolds wheels.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bellsbi...7633089015465/

1st in front of line - https://www.flickr.com/photos/bellsbi...7633089015465/

Will Goes Boing

How tall are you and what size frame is that? It could be the angle/pictures but it looks like you're pretty cramped on the bike.

topflightpro

Neck shoulder issues are probably due to the bar position. I know you race. Are you in the drops more now than you were the last few months? It's common for neck problems to occur when you start riding in the drops again after doing winter base.

As for the knee pain, are you sure you need the shoe wedges? That could be throwing off your knee tracking.

Finally, how much time did you give yourself to ease in to the changes? You made a lot of changes at once. With those types of changes, it takes time to adjust, and you really should do it slowly, i.e. in frequent short rides building to longer more frequent rides. Going out and hammering for 70 hilly miles after major changes is a recipe for pain and injury.

FasterNearGirls

I'm 5' 9 1/2" and that's a 54cm Supersix Evo.
I've had the same impression when I see pics (that I look cramped on the bike). Hope not though.

FasterNearGirls

Well, all the major changed were done in October, so yes, I was patient then. Started recruiting new muscle groups, but other than that no issues like pain.

The shoe wedges were determined by the fitter once he measured the slight varus pronation on my feet. It seemed to help. My knee tracks better and is more stable now, I believe. Although the cleat itself could be moved.

I'm definitely riding the drops a lot more in the last month or so, especially after the fit follow up when we raised the bars. But these recent issues of neck and back pain occurred just now. I rode 60 some miles on Friday, then about 40 on Saturday. The last adjustment I had made before those rides was raising the saddle a little more and moving it forward.

So last night I did a quick ride on the rollers with the saddle moved back quite a bit. Felt OK but hard to tell if it's going to fix it. Fast ride tonight should do it.

I thought about swapping back to the 100mm stem, but as you can see on the pics, if anything, I look cramped. Maybe get a longer one? Confused!

Thanks!

WhyFi

You're confused because you're trying to take on multiple variables at once. As I said before, start at the pedals, work your way to the saddle and then to the bars. WTF would you even think about your stem length when you haven't got your saddle setback figured out?

fa63

Couple questions:

- What is your cycling inseam?
- Long, average, or short arms?
- What is the current saddle height (from center of BB to top of saddle) and setback?
- What is the distance from the tip of the saddle to the center of the handlebar?
- What model handlebar do you use?

FasterNearGirls

You're right. With 2 bike fits I thought I should have it close enough and that's why I'm now tweaking all at once, but I understand your point about how that doesn't work.

FasterNearGirls

Responses in bold above.

topflightpro

Those numbers don't make sense. Your cycling inseam must be longer than the saddle height plus crank arm length - which I assume would be 172.5. For those numbers to work, you must be doing some serious hip rocking and toe pointing to be able to pedal.

FasterNearGirls

172.5mm, yes.
No hip rocking or toe pointing. Not sure why these don't make sense. My fit sheet says the suggested saddle height is actually 74.6 - a whole cm higher than where I have it. Are you sure about your equation with the inseam, saddle height, and crank arm?

topflightpro

Think about it for a second. The total distance from the pedal spindle to the top of your saddle is going to be 91.85cm (74.6 plus 17.25) when you have the pedal stroke at about 5 o'clock. Your leg, however, is only 84.5 cm. Even at 73.6, you are still looking at 90.85 cm, still more than your leg length.

To get to that point, you are either 1. pointing your toes down, 2. rocking your hips or 3. your leg-length number is wrong.

Additionally, with that leg length and those dimensions, it will be impossible to get a 30 degree bend in your knee when your pedal stroke is at 6 o'clock unless you are pointing your foot almost straight down. The direct distance from the top of your saddle to you pedal would be about 90 cm at that point. A straight line is the shortest distance between two points, so an 84.5 cm leg with a 30 degree bend somewhere in there doesn't work.

TromboneAl

From piano, trombone, surfing, and biking, I've found that pains can come and go randomly. Sometimes you change nothing, and you start to get a new pain in the neck, shoulder, elbow, wrist, etc.

One problem is that once the inflammation is there, it's self-perpetuating. That is, the tendon, or whatever, is swollen, so it rubs more, and gets worse. That can make finding the source of the problem difficult. You might adjust something to the perfect position, yet the soreness will continue due to the inflammation.

FasterNearGirls

Well, that 90.85cm line goes along the seat tube, with the crank arm at 5 o'clock. I think this relates to that general guideline to have your knee fully extended when you place your heel on the pedal at 6. But then you cleats, with it's stack, wedges, pedal stack, are all further up front - under the ball of your foot.

So that longer straight line is at an angle of 73 degrees, whilst your fully extended (no knee angle) leg is coming straght down along your set back - that's where your heel is, and the pedal is ahead.

You got me over thinking this too! But those numbers are on the header of my fit assessment sheet.

It has my height, inseam, shoulders, age, sex.
Then it has suggested frame size and suggested saddle height. Just from plugging in the numbers, these suggestions are given automatically, then the sheet continues with my actual frame size and numbers.

FasterNearGirls

Good point. I shouldn't just go by feel at this point.

Brian Ratliff

You looked really cramped on that bike.