AnonymousPython

Hello, I found this bike in the trash and would like to identify it. Any help is appreciated!

Thanks!


see images:
ibb.co/LPTCkLb
ibb.co/nLf7FB6
ibb.co/P6CDPpY
ibb.co/rGvhYxp

oneclick 

pic assist:

oneclick 

If you can take more pictures, a close-up of the right rear dropout and the seat cluster; and these details will also help:

What is the diameter of the seatpost hole.
What's the distance between the two headbadge holes
What's the width of the BB shell, and are there any markings of the cups - knurled edges, rings or lines on the face, perhaps even text.
Is there a gear-cable stop on the non-drive side of the down tube.

AnonymousPython

Thank you for the response. Since I am new, I cannot directly upload photos. So here are some more links of pictures for what you have requested.

pic assist:

ibb.co/mTptCXW
ibb.co/sFLpfSy
ibb.co/tDJY8pp
ibb.co/ZSWrt0t
ibb.co/PxDrbck
ibb.co/3M73L8F
ibb.co/3TNfDPf
ibb.co/y097FX6
ibb.co/YcVLYxx
ibb.co/0JJ5NLf

oneclick 

pic assist (for some reason these are all smaller, use your zoom control):

non-fixie 

That looks like a rather well-made frame. Fifties? The hanger looks to have been adapted to the use of a Huret derailleur.

unworthy1

Do those look to be Oscar Egg head lugs? "modified" fork crown (curly sockets)? Looks interesting, subscribed for the updates.
Out of curiosity, but it might be a clue: where are you and this trash bin located, AnonPython?

francophile 

That pointed stay treatment at the dropout is typical of Mondia, which was making cycles in the 50s/60s, if memory serves (started 1930s IIRC)? If the fork ends show similar treatment, it's a good indicator it may be, I believe that lugset was found. It should have a serial# stamped on the seat stay caps or seat lug, though, which I'm not seeing immediately (non-drive side), although I don't know how far bag they were doing that.

Pics, for reference here: Mondia main

Typical treatment which I can't recall any other builder using, and is common on every pre-90s Mondia I've ever seen, see this pic: https://www.classicrendezvous.com/ima...l_chrome/3.JPG

Stamped dropouts could suggest a lower model, depending on the actual age.

daka

Have patience with me since I have a lot to learn, but does that seat lug look like it is from a different "set" or group than the head lugs? The seat lug looks like the Prugnat used on my Super Course Mk II, the head lugs remind me of ones I've seen on Motobecanes.

unworthy1

True that Mondia was ONE of the marques that pointed the stay ends like this, but there were others, too. It's a style seen on some Austrian frames, perhaps other Swiss too but Mondia is the best-known. That said I don't think this has much else "Swiss" about it, the Oscar Egg lugs (and I do think these may be that brand plus the BB shell and forkcrown look "right") were favored by Brit builders as well as some Continental marques. Stuff of this ('40s to '50s) era is beyond me but bet this turns out to be something good. We need somebody with older European bike knowledge to chime in, maybe juvela for starters.

AnonymousPython

Found it in Toulouse, France, where I am currently living.

AnonymousPython

In the pictures of the headset, I found some writing in calligraphy, but it is hard to make out. Looks something like "O'levess" or "O'ceveJJ" as well as "MIeD5e" or something similar to these. Not sure if this helps...

ibb.co/mTptCXW

ibb.co/sFLpfSy

AnonymousPython

made a new discovery after wire brushing the frame! Looks like 2 separate numbers are stamped near the rear wheel area. “590” and “29645”

also on the headset, i discovered a new letter and it looks to read “GOREVESS” or something similar. Maybe it was etched in manually though?

ibb.co/jgjXwkr

ibb.co/ZMRKBPY

ibb.co/8xY4DWk

juvela

-----

thank you for this new additional information

"GORVESS" is a known headset manufacturer

agree with others that possible national origins include CH FR & AT

at first, thought it might might possibly be from The Argentine

as ever, the question would benefit with a visit from our Detective Chief Inspector Moss, MauriceMoss that is


-----

unworthy1

Could "590" be the frame size i.e.: 59cm (did you measure the seat tube)?
Was the BB threading ever determined? if you got the NDS cup out yourself did it unscrew counter clockwise (in the usual fashion of 99% of all screws), and since you are discovering faint markings is there ANYthing on either of the BB cups? I
If I was betting (not) at this juncture I would bet on "French", but Swiss is still possible and to lesser degrees Austrian or even Belgian.
One more (set) of clues, since you have that digital caliper measure the ODs of all 3 main tubes: Seat, Down and Top which will at least confirm that this is metric gage tubing

francophile 

Just replying to link some of the pics of the headset for OP

tanyalouise

I'm trying to find info on my norco monshee. should be a 1975 because it came with that years black dura ace group. Nice burgundy-ish frame, lugs/details in chrome. I ca't post pics yet but I will soon. The serial number is MAYBE 76D92539 - it's only the first "7" that in question. Stickers say japan. no stickers left on tubes that denote the name, just headbadge (w/ maple leaf). Help? Thanks!

francophile 

In an effort to help avoid a threadjack, posting a link to the separate thread you created (thanks!) here, where I see an answer came through: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...o-monshee.html

AnonymousPython

No one has any new ideas? Is there a way to search these numbers for some results other than google?

daka

This is an unlikely long-shot, but 590 is the ETRTO size for 650A and 26x1 3/8 wheels. Would it be easy for you to put a wheel you have (probably not 650A, I assume) on the bike and debunk this possibility?

AnonymousPython

I previously tried fitting my other bikes 700C wheel and it fit.

francophile 

I never saw a measurement for the seat tube, inner and outer which could help define the tubing and provide more insight, it's one of the last things possible. Rather than suffer through measuring the inner, may want to measure the outer, then measure the tube thickness.

If you already posted it, I must've missed in the flurry of pics. Oh, and as far as the numbers stamped into the bike ... unless they follow a recognizable pattern, chances are they're not going to help. I don't see anything following a pattern or any marks or indications of origin.

I think the head badge rivet spacing will help unlock the mystery, but I feel like the sweet spot of BF's C&V knowledge is really post-bike-boom (late 60s onward, of which this bike appears a bit earlier. If you haven't yet, you may also try to post this on The CABE. Some members posting in this thread also participate over there, but I feel like there's a bit more resources familiar with older non-US items.

unworthy1

If you confirm the BB threading (specifically which direction are the threads in the non-fixed or NDS or RH cup which is the one shown as partially removed in the pix, AND confirm what the OD of the 3 main tubes are with your digital calipers, then we can at least make a guess as to how likely this is FR or if any of the other countries of origin are still in contention. As Francophile stated the serial number for something of this frame's age may not be so good a clue but if it is then maybe T-Mar is the best of the best to offer his educated guess.

AnonymousPython

What is the best way to determine the thread size? For the BB The ID is 33.7mm (1.327in) with OD 40.33mm (1.588in) and looks like it's about 24 threads per inch. Threads clockwise for NDS and I am unable to remove the DS because I don't have a big enough wrench so can't determine right now. There were maybe 4 ball bearings left inside and they measure 0.25in in diameter.

Top Tube OD: 26.25mm (1.103in)
Seat Tube OD: 27.98mm (1.033in)
Down Tube OD: 28.09mm (1.113in)

Let me know if I can do tell you anything else to help!

oneclick 

Those tubing sizes look like metric to me.

Match the cup you have beside a known english or metric cup - side-by-side, between a light and your eye, look at the thread match.

If it's metric, the chances are greater that the DS cup is french/right-hand, but swiss ones are left. When you have an unknown, you just go L-R-L-R... gradually increasing the torque until it moves. If it moves and gets tighter, go the other way.

There may be markings on the cup - rings, knurling, and there is a chart you can goggle that has some of the more common ones. If there are and they don't match anything please post here what you found.