Griff2000

Hi all,


First post here today but been a long time reader. Apologies for posting quite a common topic but I've read other Pinarello identification threads and I still can't seem to place the one I've bought.


Photos to follow shortly. So, I bought this Pinarello from ebay and as the photos show it is an old frame with modern components - Campag centaur groupset, carbon forks, wheels, seatpost and bars. So I'm just trying to work out the frame and whether it is a fake, and if not then what year, model and tubing. Here's some of the details and a few concerns and question marks I have:


- The decals - I've read that Pinarello decals were notoriously poor and peeled and scratched quite easily. The ones on this bike are pretty much perfect so I'm guessing they are new and not original. They're also on the bike surface and not under a lacquer layer. I can pick at the edges and could peel them off fairly easily. Did Pinarello tend to lacquer over the decals? Any chance these would be original?

- There is no Columbus sticker. Instead there is a sticker in the normal Columbus position that reads 'Cicli Oliveri Montecchio'. From googling this appears to be a bike shop in Italy. Interestingly, this sticker seems to be below a lacquer layer as I cannot pick at the edges of it.

- The bike seems to have the right Pinarello marking and engravings - the 'flower' engraving on the top of the down tube x 1, on the top of the bottom bracket x 2, on the inside top of the rear brake bridge x 2, there are 2 x GPT engravings on the seat stays, and you can just make out a 'Pinarello Treviso Italy' stamp on the underside of the BB but I cannot see any sign of a serial number anywhere.

- The drive side chain stay is chromed but the non-drive side is just paint.

- Drop outs are Campagnolo

- There is a front mech braze on mount.

- Pinarello metal badge on the head tube.

- There is a signature in black pen on the top tube, non-drive side. Something beginning with 'V' I think. This is below a lacquer layer and I think it is a real signature and not a sticker.

- The frame has 3 cable house guides on the top tube.


I'm hoping the engravings suggest it is not a fake (is it easy to fake engravings?!). So if not, does anyone know what model and tubing it might be? And what the signature might be about? From looking at images online I wonder if it might be an early 80's Treviso? Maybe 1982-ish?


Thanks in advance!

P!N20

If it has ‘engravings’ aka pantographs or panto’s, it is most likely a legitimate Pinarello.

You’re right that vintage Pinarello decals were poor and Pinarello did not clear coat their frames (at least up until the early 90’s.) So it sounds like it has been re-painted with new decals.

Have a really good look if there is a serial number, often they are hard to spot, especially if the re-paint is thick. Pinarello serial numbers aren’t that helpful really, but they can narrow down the year a bit.

Guesses on year and model will have to wait until the photos are posted.

CO_Hoya 

From OP’s gallery




These pics certainly look to be of a legitimate Pinarello bike. Because of the pristine condition and tubing sticker, it is almost certainly a repainted frame.

As to model, a picture of the bottom bracket shell, the brake bridge, any bridge on the chain stays, and of the rear dropout may help ID.

If you pull the bottom bracket, you can inspect the frame tube internals for helical ridges to help ID the tube flavor.

Also, what is the seat post size? 27.2mm or other?

Griff2000

Hmmm, can't upload photos. Saying I can't upload URLs (does that include photos?) until I have 10 posts. Is that correct? Any advice?! Good start!

CO_Hoya 

From the definition on the lugs, looks like paint rather than powder coat.

Nice bike - no idea on model, but likely mid-80s: Campy dropout, non-nutted brake bridge, single bottle.

Griff2000

Wow, thanks for the help CO-Hoya. Those were the pics I tried to attach - not sure how they went to a gallery or where my gallery is. But thanks for re-posting! Much appreciated.

Griff2000

Thanks for the reply. Some photos added now. I'll keep trying to add more. Hopefully should work when I've posted enough replies.

Griff2000

Also, where should I be looking for the serial number? I've search all over the underside of the BB but can't see anything. Maybe to do with the paint thickness, as you say.

T-Mar

The Campagnolo dropouts are non-Portacatena, which would make it no earlier than circa 1984. Pinarello introduced their eponymous dropouts circa 1987. Consequently, it should be circa 1984-1986. The Treviso didn't have a brazed-on front derailleur hanger though 1985 but did in 1987. I'm not sure about 1986. In 1984-1985, there was a model called the Super Record Special which was basically a Treviso with a front derailleur braze-on.

The decals are an obvious replacement, as they are in too good condition and are incomplete. However, the paint appears to to original. In which case I'm surprised that the stay caps aren't chromed. Based on extant catalogues, both the Treviso and Super Record Special had chromed stay caps on 1985. Again I'm not sure about 1986, but they were gone on the Treviso by 1987.

It's also been suggested that there is only one set of bottle bosses. Is this true? The bottle mounts on the seat tube from this era can hard to see in side photos, as there is no raised boss, just a flush hole with threads.

It's obviously not a Montello and based on the dating aids, would appear to be mid-1980s, either a Treviso or Super Record Special. Of course, that assumes it's a USA market model. Variations are often seen on foreign models. You can raise your confidence in a Columbus SL tubeset by verifying that requires a 27.2mm seat post. Unfortunately, the OEM fork is gone, so the presence of a Columbus steerer tube can't be verified.

Griff2000

Hi, thanks for your reply. That’s really helpful. I’m in the UK and the person I bought it from said he got it from someone who brought it back from Italy. So not a USA market model as far as I know. Not sure if that impacts on the model variations?

Just checked and it is indeed a 27.2mm seatpost. Definitely only one set of bottle cage bosses too.

Manny66 

The seat post frame Decal should have the Pinarello on both sides not down the center,, Maybe because no bottle braze ons like T-Mar said.

P!N20

This has been debated before, but there’s plenty of circa ‘85 Trevisos with FD hangers, there was even one in the ‘85 catalog: https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Pinarello85/7.jpg

P!N20

Either towards the front of the bottom bracket shell between the cutout and down tube intersection, or off to one side, usually the drive side. However the pics that you’ve supplied don’t suggest a serial number in either location.

Chombi1 

If the fork is not original, make sure you check good for any front end damage (buckling) at the top and down tubes.....
Forks usually do not just get changed out for no reason.....especially on a top line bike like a Pinarello.

Griff2000

I'll have a really good look later when home from work. I might need to shine a torch on it to bring up any faint signs on a serial number if the paint is really thick.

Griff2000

All seems to be OK in terms of the front end. Can't see any buckling, thankfully. Not sure why the fork was removed. I think perhaps just the frame was purchased or brought over from Italy. Not sure it was a whole bike.

Griff2000

I’ve had a look and I can possibly make out the signs of a serial number when held in the right light. Seems to be on the underside of the BB shell, on the drive side (like suggested). But so faint. The paint must be really thick, or a couple of coats. I’d need to take the paint off to see if it’s actually a serial number. Not sure that’s worth it?

Griff2000

Yes I did wonder about that as I’ve seen a number of these with the decals offset from the centre of the seat tube. Hadn’t considered the bottle cage bosses, so that explains it.

Griff2000

diphthong

mine is an ‘85 treviso-redecaled and repainted. has the internal cable routing. forgive the dirt in the pics from recent rains. hope this helps eliminate a possibility.

Griff2000

Here's a few more photos now that I can upload them. Does anyone know what the signature on the top tube might be about? Also the bike shop decal on the seat tube in place of the usual Columbus one? Both are under a clear coat. Would it be normal for a bike shop to put their sticker in place of the Columbus one? Seems odd to me. Haven't seen it on any others when I've searched.

Griff2000

Cheers ooga-booga. Nice bike. I like the internal cable routing. Mine doesn’t have that unfortunately. That’s a nice feature, I’m guessing on better models?

Old Fireleg

Hi,
my question is: Is there an elongated dent on the outside of the drive side chain stay near the BB? Where the chain rings cover the chain stay. Unfortunately, I can't see clearly from the pictures.

Griff2000

No there does not seem to be a dent. It seems all uniform along the length of the chain stay.

Please see new pic attached.

P!N20

I wouldn’t worry about it - it’s not going to tell you much.