TheKillerPenguin

I think volume is quite helpful, provided you do it with intent and use it to support focused intervals.

procrit

Easy spin yesterday and 3 1/2 hours today of mostly zone 2 with one pretty good 15’ effort. I ended up rolling off the front with a couple other strong riders and did 420-450 watts for 3’ @ 30+ mph and created a decent little gap. Settled in at a comfortable 26-28 mph pace for another 10+ mins. Legs still feeling good even after 6 days of riding.

~70 grams carbs / hour.

Edit: 6 hours later, even with 652 grams of carbs done for the day, my legs are kinda tired. I’m also at the most negative TSB i’ve been in 6 months. I guess we will see how this plays out next week.

TMonk

Another Twilight Harbor race, 1st / 11. Pretty cagey and hard despite somewhat low AP. Lots of attacks and mini breaks.

In the last lap, my MO lately has been to attack more and maybe take a hero move, prioritizing a workout. Today I decided to "race" it and play it more defensively, and it worked. Capped it off with another 10 minutes with the A pace bot after the race.



one of many moves, right after my bridge. We rolled turns at 5-5.5 for a few min.


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procrit

5-5.5 w/kg is solid! I was thinking today while doing that one pull at 5.5-6w/kg “So this is what pros that get dropped can do for an hour?” Insane.

TMonk

I seem to excel at recovery from anaerobic efforts, over/unders etc. I can roll a breakaway with riders above my pay grade from a FTP perspective.

TMonk

I've also had a buddy of mine (former domestic NRC guy) say that an FTP of 5 w/kg is enough to ride in the pro peloton stateside. So I would say that is a very lofty goal procrit. I am about 10% below that when I am good (for me). But again, it's not my strength.

TheKillerPenguin

With the caveat that you're not going to outclimb the true freaks (there are always a handful on the beast coast) and you need to have a decent rest of your power curve on top of that FTP - I would say that's true.

For reference, in 2022 I was regularly laying down 4.9w/kg for 45+ min. However I have always kind of sucked at sharp accelerations and avoid training for em unless i have a coach telling me to suck it up. Same with 5 minute stuff. You really need to be able to do that crap over and over, not just once or twice. And to do that, you need to be willing to feel really really bad while training.

TMonk

This year, I had a consultation session with a coach in January, planning through two target stage races in Feb (VoS) and early April (Tour de Murrieta). He had me do base only leading up to VoS (w some light SST on the TT bike) and then go straight to VO2 intervals.... no z4 or threshold riding in between, per the classical progression. During March, I was doing 3x VO2 workouts per week with around 20' in zone per session, and z2 long on the weekends. Very polarized. He said or someone like myself I needed to block periodize to move the needle, and he identiied VO2 as a growth area.

The training month was tough, but man I felt like I was flying afterward! Three wins in the 35+ this year in SCNCA. including the criterium at TdM, which I won from a break I started.

procrit

My main goal is to have fun racing again and put enough points together for the cat 1 upgrade. I don't think 5 w/kg is necessary to do either of those...

TMonk

No I don't think so either. I think I am capable of it as well, but not in a P/1/2 field. That's the hard part- I'd really have to travel more than I'd like and seek out 2 or 2/3 fields. . If only you could count Master's points. I'd already be there.

I do go back and forth in my mind about whether I should focus on that... like, it won't affect my focus on Master's as you zoom out the lens, but upgrading from 2 to 1 would be a major achievement, knowing that I would truly be an elite armature..

hubcyclist

I've really come around on vo2 being the key to move the needle, once you've trained ss/ftp for a while, that type of work isn't going to do much other than help TTE. i finally busted through a plateau this year by doing a lot more vo2 stuff than I had, mainly because i thought vo2 was "race prep" and also because TR prescribes a lot of vo2 stuff where intervals are under 3mins so they really don't do that they are supposed to.

procrit

How long are you guys vo2 intervals? 4-6'? Are you aiming for highest sustainable output, or some percentage of FTP?

hubcyclist

i'll do 3-5 mins, max effort (so there'll be fall off), I tend to progress 6x3min, 7x3min, 5x4min, 4x5min. you can definitely go as far as 6x4min or 5x5, doing any more than 25min, to my understanding, isn't really all that helpful. over the past year if i've done a block I've limited to 2 workouts per week, I might try 3 workouts a week this year and hope it doesn't kill me lol

Hermes

I am recovering from a crash so nothing to report. I think max power and multiple high power VO2/ANO2 intervals make a difference.

TMonk

I would do intervals 3-5 min in duration at 112-120%.

After talking with my coach, he said power was almost secondary in VO2 max intervals - it's really about getting your HR up and really taxing your aerobic system. So he advocated for a hard start vs a totally smooth power output.

I found that during my first and last intervals, I would struggle to get the HR above LTHR. In the first one, you're really just burning through a bunch of AWC. During the last one, your anaerobic system is spent and it's mostly aerobic contribution.

TMonk

He also said that he would sometimes do two VO2 max sessions in a day... about 40-45' total in zone . VO2s in the morning, big lunch, nap, and then again in the afternoon. But he's a pro cyclist. Not gonna happen for a working stiff like myself

hubcyclist

this is a recent one i did, set an all time best on my first, not so much on the rest lol but effort was same

procrit

Maybe that's his minimum effective dose to get a response, but I think I could probably get faster with 10' of vo2 at this point LOL.

TheKillerPenguin

This is the way - I am at my best when I do similar. I might put out like 5w less at FTP than I do when I focus on long time power, but I gain so much in repeatability above FTP that it really doesn't matter.

procrit

Deload week is here! Yesterday was a day off the bike, and this morning was a short ~2 hour zone 2 spin. This was the biggest 3 week block I’ve put in so far, let’s see how this goes…

TMonk

Went outside today. I continue to have gobs of power when I keep expecting it to drop out, due to riding ~6-7 hrs a week (vs twice that much). Hit a few segments at the upper end of repeatable interval pace without undue RPE:

3:45 at 352w (5.4)
9:45 at 303w (4.7)
3:00 at 350w (5.4) <-- ok so this one was pretty mid

Weight is down a few lbs too so they are objectively better performances.

I can't explain it, maybe I'm just enjoying a temporary period of reduced fatigue? Or maybe it's the oft-anticipated arrival of #dadwatts? I'm sure the depth isn't there, but maybe I could still attack the hell out of a criterium on this low volume.

TMonk

"TT Bike Thursdays" but outdoor version. Typically I'll ride for 30' and 15' at high z2 and z3, respectively, for a light day. Today I kicked that up a notch for each one.

Cut the second one a few minutes short, too windy and too much activity. Had to leave aero a few times so I could "square off" and cover the brakes. Tourists, man.

TBH it was pretty fatiguing compared to the trainer, riding these things out in the wild is hard! Glad I got some real world practice in.

TMonk

also Happy Thanksgiving all!

hubcyclist

"only" 10hrs this past week, mainly easy, did tempo this weekend in my parents' 40 degree garage lol today was a zwift race of the new 'big ring" loop, which is 31 miles, zwift physics being what they are I did it in 1h17 at 264w

procrit

After a much needed 5 days of rest and recovery, with just a couple of short easy rides, I put in 3 1/2 hours of zone 2 with a couple 20' tempo efforts yesterday with a guy that has an upper zone 2 of around 280 watts! Luckily he also needed about 20% more power to go the same speed, so we were able to do a similar effort. Shocking how much a slightly bigger body frame and 30 pounds changes things. And it's all the more reason for me to continue losing the last bit of extra weight...