dirtydozen

Hello,

I have bought a second hand Sworks Tarmac SL6 at my local bike shop a couple months ago.

I have just weighted it and it's at 8,2kg and i really don't understand how is that possible.
It's a full ultegra R8000 rimbrake build and there are no saddle bags, lights or whatever. Just a thing to put the garmin on and two bottle cages.

Wheels are 1475g a pair, I know I can save a good 150g on my pedals, 200g on the stem and bars and 100g on lighter innetubes, but we even with these upgrades i'm still quite far away from 7kg.
It feels like even with unlimited amount of money, it's impossible to reach a 7kg build on my Tarmac while i've seen a video of a pro of his weighting 7,1kg with disks and 50mm deep wheels

Am I tripping or is there something weird going on here ?

Thanks

PeteHski

Have you checked your scale calibration?

base2 

You're at 18 pounds. What size is your bike frame? It's pretty easy to get UCI illegal with a small frame. Less so with a large frame.

Rim brake or disc?

Hunt makes a pretty bang-on set of sub 1300 gram rim brake wheels for honestly, not a lot of money. https://us.huntbikewheels.com/produc...34679751704621 If you are interested in rim brake tubular you can have These for a 300 gram savings and €1700 more + €600 more for ceramic bearings, if desired.

For Disc brake, I built a 949 gram disc, tubeless wheel set using Berd spokes, Stan's Grail CB7 rims and Extralite 28/24 hole HyperSmart hubs. The total cost was approx ~$2500 at the time. This is weight is hard to beat even with tubulars. But if you are interested you can have these for €300 more and the 1:1 ratio restriction of Cyber hubs to save 100 grams and have none of the flat resistance of tubeless.


If rim brake, THM makes this: Fibula but reports are all over the map on performance. The consensus I've seen seems to indicate that the better performance of Cane Creek eeBrakes is worth the trade off. In my experience, Ciamillo Zero Gravity brakes are both heavier and too fussy to to be worth the trouble.

If disc brake CarbonTi is the rotor to get. Buy only from an authorized distributor, the Amazon ones are fake. Ashima Rotors are crap. I am not including a link.

For the Crank set, THM is back to the rescue with the Clavicula SE. At 300 grams it's the one to beat. Lightning is also a reasonable alternative if you don't want to wait 9 months to have the crank manufactured for you. The trade off is the Lightning isn't as stiff and has no power meter option of their own. But they do have a Power2Max NG available if you don't mind a bunch of extra weight that the Claviculas' 30 gram power meter doesn't have. If you don't care about power meters, the Lightning is $500 cheaper and 95 grams heavier than the Clavicula SE. In either case, I've been more than pleased with Extralites chainrings. Cane Creek makes a pretty compelling competitor to the Lightning if you are thinking the Clavicula might be a bridge too far: https://canecreek.com/product/eewings-all-road/ I have no experience with it though other than installing one, one time on someone else's bike.

Edco makes monoblock cassettes from tool steel. So if you have an aluminum freehub body there is no force on an individual cog to bite and destroy the freehub body splines like poorly designed Shimano cassettes. Prestacycle is the US distributor. There is an aluminum version competitor that I suspect uses the same CNC program. I don't recommend that one and will not include a link. Reports are it breaks and has poor service life.

YBN makes Titanium chains. I have no experience with one. (But, I'd like to. )

For the cockpit There is the ubiquitous Deda Zero stem. But for a few grams more grams saved Extralite has HyperStems. Follow the instructions. Lesser handlebars may slip. The computer mount face plate is tremendously useful and provides a place for the GoPro mount which is a great way to cleanly add a headlight to your bike.

Ax-Lightness makes the Ergo 4200 handlebar It has 65mm of reach, a compact drop and most importantly a band of fibers in the lay up specifically to resist clamping forces. Something that all other more poorly engineered (and more expensive) carbon bars lack. *cough*ENVE*cough*FSA*cough*cough* If you would like to run aero bars or have a wider clamping area for a Garmin mount or if you need stronger bars because you exceed 240 pounds they will make a handlebar to your needs.

Ax-Lightness also makes a variety of sub 100 gram saddles. But there are competitors. I like the Leaf Plus 3K. I think it may no longer made. But there are a variety of other variants available. Tune is another popular weight-weenie saddle maker.

For a seat post, Darimo make high quality sub 100 gram models. To get an authentic genuine product, you must email them directly. The eBay ones from Hong Kong are fraudulent. Darimo is hand made in Spain to order and they will make whatever length and strength you need and adjust the layup accordingly to your specific bike and weight. Again, follow instructions to the letter. Not what you think the instructions mean. The actual instructions. They make one for your SL6. It's listed in the non-round grouping on their web page.

KCNC makes titanium cables.

Aican makes the lightest shift and brake housing I have ever seen. Shift & Brake Works good and weighs a lot less than the Jagwire Alligator. It doesn't squeak like the Jagwire version either. Though tbh, I have been waiting for 6 weeks for the Aican package to show up. So, if you are in a hurry the Jagwire is a more readily available option.

For bottle cages and computer mounts, it is pretty hard to beat https://www.carbonworks.de/ His designs are often copied. This is the original and so far as I know were invented by hand in the guys garage and for the longest time still made that way. They may still be. The bottle cages do hold very securely.

Pirelli P Zero are the tires the pros use. I dunno. I'm still happy with Continental GP5000's

I'm sure I forgot something. But I hope this post is helpful. With the parts I listed, getting your SL6 UCI illegal should be pretty easy.

Iride01 

Depending on the size of your frame and the wheelset weight, you are in the ballpark for a SL6 Tarmac weight. Have you checked for things like steel bars or steel or aluminum seat post and other incidental components that might be heavy? A previous owner may have kept some of the better stuff and put heavier stuff on it before selling.

If comparing to weights you've found others quote, be sure that isn't their weight before putting pedals, bottle cages, seat bag and a gizmo or gadget on the bars.

sced

It's just a couple of pounds. Cut back a bit on the junk food.

Pantah

Got a few thoughts here. I've been diving down the rabbit hole of chasing grams on my one high end road bike and it's been interesting discovering how the little things can add up quickly and the places where weight can hide. Easy to swap stuff like seat posts, saddles. wheelset, tires/tubes (or lack of tubes if tubeless) and pedals. Most of those require nothing more than a hex wrench. As mentioned, it would have been easy for a prior owner to swap any of those out for any one of a variety of reasons. There's also less obvious stuff like skewers and cassettes. I got a brand new very lightweight carbon wheelset for my BMC a couple of years ago but the skewers it came with were, relatively speaking, quite heavy. Had a pair of older titanium Salsa skewers laying around that weighed almost half as much and went with those instead.

As for ways to cut further base2 has a sizeable stack of good suggestions. It's a quality list from my glazing over it but I'll admit I didn't read it all (note, glazed over it) so forgive me if this suggestion is a repeat but another way to cut out some unwanted weight is with titanium bolts. It's not cheap, but chasing grams never is, though it's much cheaper than a good deal of the other ways one can save weight. I just got done, today actually, swapping out the better half of the steel bolts on my road bike and the pile of replaced hardware weighs more than I expected. I know that I can't expect all that weight to be a direct deduction off total weight since titanium still does have mass but it's still something. I picked up a titanium bolt kit from Better Bolts. While they technically sell stuff only for mountain bikes, they still sell generic bolts that will work on anything that takes a metric fastener. I got the $210 mountain bike bolt kit just so I had everything. It's a LOT of hardware and I don't recommend the kit if you're just trying to kit out one bike. It would be more cost effective to figure out exactly what you need and order just that. I went with the kit because I'm going to help my brother by replacing as much as I can on his current lightweight carbon build and then I'll throw whatever is leftover on my mountain bike and general purpose road bike.
*I weighed this bike, a late 2000's BMC TeamMachine SLT01, just before doing the ti hardware swap (plus a lighter carbon bottle cage). It came out to, ironically, 8.2 kilograms. I'll post up what the resulting weight savings is when I'm able to weigh it again in a couple of days.

What size is the frame? All else created equal, a 61cm frame will weigh more than, say, a 52cm frame. I don't know what the difference would be but there's more frame material, more fork steerer, more cables and more cable housing and it all has mass. I ride a 61cm and I just have to live with the fact that somebody with the same frame and all the same components will simply have a lighter bike no matter what. I think most manufacturers' stated weights for bikes is for 56cm, or somewhere in that range, since that's the most common size, at least for men. The reality being that it will change depending on size.

Koyote

Well, that’s helpful.

BTinNYC 

I can see the wallet getting lighter by several £.

seypat

That's reducing weight anyway you look at it.

Iride01 

Reducing bike weight is more permanent and immediate in the results.

PeteHski

But usually a lot more potential to make a significant gain reducing body mass vs an 8 kg bike.

Losing bike weight is a relatively expensive hobby, but it doesn’t buy you very much performance. If you are racing hill climbs competitively and expect to win or lose by a few seconds then it might actually matter. Otherwise not so much.

Iride01 

I agree with you on that.

Every winter I gain weight from not riding or exercising as much as I should. I look forward every year to getting back down in the low 170's or less so I can easily get up those hills without even thinking about it or shifting to my lower gear combos.

Yes losing bike weight can be expensive. But so too can losing body weight with some of the fads the diet industry foists on us.

PeteHski

Sure, but spending money on fad diets is not obligatory to lose weight. I do it by training and eating more healthy options - which are quite often cheaper than the junk they replace.

terrymorse 

Exceptions exist, as always.

I wish I had that potential to drink from, but that well’s about as low as it should ever go. BMI 18.5, trying to get it a bit higher.

Koyote

I agree with you, but the comment from this poster, quoted below, is the sort of thing that often pops up in these threads, and it's ridiculous. First, because the OP asked about bike weight -- if he wanted advice about his diet, he would've asked for it. Second, because we don't know anything about the OP's weight -- perhaps it's already as low as is reasonably attainable, and his diet is very healthy -- with no junk food.

PeteHski

Yeah, the bike does seem rather porky for an S-Works rim-brake setup. My Defy with discs and 105 is only 0.5 kg heavier and my Endurace SL with discs and Force AXS is under 8 kg.

First thing, like I mentioned earlier, would be to verify the scales are accurate.

mstateglfr 

Those cost $1104 on sale right now and $1300 normally.


Some btlos 35mm deep, 19mm internal, 26 external extralight carbon rim brake rims(so basically identical dims to the hunt rim) with bitex hubs, Pilar steel aero spokes, and brass nipples weight 1310 grams and cost $657 shipped to your door.
Same price and 1284 grams if you go with aluminum nipples.
Best of all, you can choose between spoke holes or no holes in the rim bed.



$450 less for same weight or even less. Handbuilt and easily replaced spokes if ever needed too.



Your post I am partially quoting was very thorough.

Acadianbob

I upgraded my Litespeed a few years ago to R8000 and new HED wheelset. It weighs 18 pounds. I could have bought a whole new bike for a couple of thousand more dollars. I decided to lose 30 pounds instead. For me, that was the right decision versus a 16 pound bike.

terrymorse 

Why not do both? 2 pounds off a bike is more significant when you weigh 30 pounds less.

Pantah

Losing 30 pounds is great, if you have the extra weight to lose. For some people, myself included, suggestions to lost weight are ridiculous at best. For me, my weight is exactly where it needs to be for my height, build and level of physical fitness. I had it lower, down into the 160's (lbs) but that was a bit too low. As I've continued to build up strength, it's back to a healthy 180. At 6'3", that is quite slender. If somebody told me to lose weight, I would laugh. A deep, sarcastic laugh.

As someone mentioned earlier, if the OP wanted a discussion about their own body weight, they would have asked.
They didn't.

eduskator

You're not tripping, but you're clearly not giving enough information for us to provide an objective opinion.

DaveSSS 

I have 3 bikes and only one is under 18 pounds at 17.75. It weighs a little less with lighter bars and stem than the others that have integrated bar/stem and lighter 29mm deep climbing wheels. Don't forget that aero wheels are heavier, but improve speed with aerodynamics. It takes a lot of money to save a little bit of weight from several different parts.

If your routes don't include a lot of climbing, a little extra weight won't slow you down significantly. I ride 50 mile routes with 3500 to 5000 feet of climbing. I did 400,000 feet of climbing last year.

Although others have been critical of mentioning body weight, it does have the same effect as bike weight. If there's 2 pounds to lose, do that first.

Jjbailey930

FWIW, my 06/07 Tarmac 56cm comes in a smudge under 8kg at 17.5 imperial. Fact stem, seat post, remained. DTSwiss alum with GP5k 28m wheels, Speedplay pedals.

I too can afford to lose almost my bike weight in body weight but I love IPAs too much!

eduskator

For what it's worth, my SL8 Pro (Ultegra DI2) in size 58cm weighs 7.3kg without pedals, bottle cages and computer.

Advertised weight is 7.16kg for a 56cm so I am not bothered by the 140g difference.

wheelreason

Gravity.