Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Training & Nutrition
Reload this Page >

Possible to lose just belly fat?

Notices
Training & Nutrition Learn how to develop a training schedule that's good for you. What should you eat and drink on your ride? Learn everything you need to know about training and nutrition here.

Possible to lose just belly fat?

Old 05-10-17, 08:55 AM
  #1  
Dreww10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 318
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 167 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Possible to lose just belly fat?

I'd like to shed about 10 pounds off my riding weight. The problem is that the only place on my body with any fat on it to lose is right on my stomach, and any attempt to lose weight across the board results in my looking like a terminally ill patient (ie. much too thin in the face, arms, etc.). I'm 6'0 with a 32-inch waist and hover right at 179-180 lbs., and have a relatively small but certainly pronounced spare tire around the waist that doesn't exactly scream "fit". My arms, shoulders, and chest are already scrawnier than I'd prefer.

Because I ride in volume and intensity, I'm able to maintain weight eating and drinking sugary and fatty everything; about a year ago I cut out soda, sweets, essentially all sugars for 4 four days and lost 7 pounds, but still riding in volume at the time, my body retaliated against it and I've abandoned any further weight loss attempts since so as to not hijack my training.

Is belly weight just a genetic trait, ie. having a flat stomach might just mean being ghastly thin everywhere else? Or can certain foods/exercises target belly weight only?
Dreww10 is offline  
Old 05-10-17, 09:01 AM
  #2  
dabac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,189
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 914 Post(s)
Liked 87 Times in 66 Posts
Short of liposuction, there's no way to target fat loss - whatever the Shopping Network is trying to tell you.


As far as your body is concerned, that's like trying to drain only one corner of a pool.


If you want rid of it bad enough, stick to the diet longer. When there's no more to get from other parts, even the stugbborn areas will be affected.
dabac is offline  
Likes For dabac:
Old 05-10-17, 09:38 AM
  #3  
pdlamb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 5,968

Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1222 Post(s)
Liked 297 Times in 209 Posts
7 pounds in 4 days sounds like you're trying to lose weight too fast. Most people who really know what they're talking about recommend 1-2 pounds a week. Try that and see if you can make some headway.
pdlamb is offline  
Old 05-10-17, 09:47 AM
  #4  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,227
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12062 Post(s)
Liked 3,428 Times in 1,911 Posts
You can't target fat loss. Your body decides where it comes from, you don't. There are no foods or exercises that will make a specific type of fat go away and not others. (Sit ups build muscle around the stomach, for example, they don't make belly fat go away.)

Fat loss comes from a calorie deficit.

For a lot of people (men especially) the belly is the last place stubborn fat will stay. It can still be lost, it's just the last to be lost.

Originally Posted by Dreww10 View Post
Is belly weight just a genetic trait, ie. having a flat stomach might just mean being ghastly thin everywhere else? Or can certain foods/exercises target belly weight only?
A good strength training program will fix the ghastly thin appearance. StrongLifts 5x5 is a good, free beginner program.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 05-10-17, 10:28 AM
  #5  
Fett2oo5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Tomball, Texas
Posts: 174

Bikes: '91 Klein Quantum

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I majored in Kinesciology in college, what I, my colleagues, and personal trainers will suggest is targeted exercise. If you want to lose weight on your abdomen, do lots of exercises that target and isolate your abdomen.
Sit-ups, and crunches aren't the best, they put strain on our back and neck. Anchoring the torso and doing leg raises are much more effective.
IMHO the best way to do this is to use a dip station in reverse. Adding medicine balls for increased resistance.
You can purchase one, you can build one, you can install one on a wall. The point being...
You use the station to support yourself on your forearms, and allow your legs to hang. Then, using your abdominal muscles, bring your knees up to your chest, while bending at the knees.

[See attached pic]

Before all exercises always remember to adequately stretch first.
Facing forward, bring your quadriceps (thighs) up to your chest (bending at the knees) for how ever many reps you can do/want. (it is ok to "curl" your hips and lower back forward and upward to get your knees as high as you can)
Then twist, at your waist, to the left, bring your knees up in this position, (as you would if you were to reach down and scratch the outside of your right foot while standing) for as many reps as you can do/want.
Repeat the same to the right.
Then go back to straight. Do as many reps as you can.
When you are able, squeeze a medicine ball between your ankles and do these exercises for added resistance.
At first, you will curse me, cause it's gonna hurt and shred your muscles, but then after a week or two, you'll be happy with the results.

Disclaimer: This is my opinion, based on my observations and experiences. Every person's body type and genetics are different, everyone's abilities are different. Please be smart, and if you feel pain, stop the exercise.YRMV
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Reverse Dip Station.jpg (15.5 KB, 556 views)
Fett2oo5 is offline  
Old 05-10-17, 11:01 AM
  #6  
KD5NRH
Senior Member
 
KD5NRH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Stephenville TX
Posts: 3,697

Bikes: 2010 Trek 7100

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 697 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Cut out HFCS as much as possible, and get yourself a good upper body workout to keep your arms from getting scrawny. Dieting too hard tends to give the concentration camp look, whereas eating what you want in the most natural form possible (hence avoiding HFCS in favor of real cane sugar or honey wherever you can) will be a lot more likely to get the results you want.
You don't have to be pumping major iron daily, just try to give your chest and arms a bit more attention to match the lower body workout you're already getting.
KD5NRH is offline  
Old 05-10-17, 11:15 AM
  #7  
rickyk76
Senior Member
 
rickyk76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 241

Bikes: Cannondale Slate; Crust Evasion

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 99 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dabac View Post
Short of liposuction, there's no way to target fat loss - whatever the Shopping Network is trying to tell you.
Actually, there's an FDA-approved procedure called CoolSculpting that freezes fat cells in a targeted area. It's much safer then lipo. It's expensive though and is for smaller amounts of fat.

The body will redistribute fat cells though. The best thing to do is to lower your overall body fat percentage through diet and exercise. If it's hanging around your midsection more, that's mainly genetic, but can still be reduced. If you're worried about the rest of you, add some weight training to balance out the proportions. Adding muscle to your arms, chest, back and legs will help reduce your spare tire too.
rickyk76 is offline  
Old 05-10-17, 04:08 PM
  #8  
wolfchild
Senior Member
 
wolfchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 6,217

Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1826 Post(s)
Liked 476 Times in 259 Posts
Spot reduction doesn't work...Cutting calories also won't work because it will cause you to lose muscle and make things even worse for your belly....You need diet and exercise program which targets your full body. I recommend you start doing weight training and build some muscle.
wolfchild is offline  
Old 05-10-17, 04:10 PM
  #9  
Fett2oo5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Tomball, Texas
Posts: 174

Bikes: '91 Klein Quantum

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I take issue with your usage of absolutes...
Originally Posted by FreaStevens View Post
It's impossible to lose fat only from your belly.
It IS possible, and thousands of people, my fellow students, our collective clients, and myself have all done it. So don't say "it's impossible"

Originally Posted by FreaStevens View Post
.....Instead try to lose fat and build some muscles. Of cource, you can't do both at the same time.
You can and will.

Unless you're an expert in the field, please refrain from using absolutes, and common/uncommon acceptance as fact.

Instead of going into a tirade, citing my research and sources, and further derailing this thread, I'll just say this. If you have an opinion please don't use that as a fact for all cases.
@FreaStevens I mean no disrespect, I'm only pointing out MY issues with the verbiage you used, in this particular post. If I've somehow offended you, I apologize. I went to school for many years and studied Kinesciology, and in the effort to help the OP I wanted to offer some of my knowledge and experience.
Fett2oo5 is offline  
Old 05-10-17, 05:19 PM
  #10  
wolfchild
Senior Member
 
wolfchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 6,217

Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1826 Post(s)
Liked 476 Times in 259 Posts
Targeting your abs with useless abs exercises is a waste of time and energy... Squats, deadlifts, overhead pressing, rows, pull ups, kettlebell workouts and interval training are a lot more beneficial for losing belly fat.
The real secret to abs is diet and resistance training which targets your full body and not just the abs.
wolfchild is offline  
Old 05-10-17, 05:29 PM
  #11  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 16,398

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2403 Post(s)
Liked 478 Times in 352 Posts
Originally Posted by Fett2oo5 View Post
I take issue with your usage of absolutes...

It IS possible, and thousands of people, my fellow students, our collective clients, and myself have all done it. So don't say "it's impossible"

You can and will.

Unless you're an expert in the field, please refrain from using absolutes, and common/uncommon acceptance as fact.

Instead of going into a tirade, citing my research and sources, and further derailing this thread, I'll just say this. If you have an opinion please don't use that as a fact for all cases.
@FreaStevens I mean no disrespect, I'm only pointing out MY issues with the verbiage you used, in this particular post. If I've somehow offended you, I apologize. I went to school for many years and studied Kinesciology, and in the effort to help the OP I wanted to offer some of my knowledge and experience.
You're making some strong statements here. Please post links to the peer-reviewed studies on which you are basing your opinions. Love to see them.
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Likes For Carbonfiberboy:
Old 05-10-17, 05:51 PM
  #12  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 16,398

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2403 Post(s)
Liked 478 Times in 352 Posts
From the wiki:
Spot reduction refers to the fallacy that fat can be targeted for reduction from a specific area of the body and that it can be achieved through exercise of specific muscles in the desired area, such as exercising the abdominal muscles in an effort to lose weight in or around one's midsection. Advertisers exploit this concept when advertising exercise-related products.

The scientific consensus among fitness experts and researchers is that spot reduction is a myth. Studies largely show that it is not possible to reduce fat in one area by exercising that body part alone. Instead, fat is lost from the entire body as a result of diet and regular exercise. Muscle growth in the abdominal region does not reduce fat in that region. Instead, being on a caloric deficit is recommended for reducing abdominal fat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spot_reduction

I believe this article includes absolutes.
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Likes For Carbonfiberboy:
Old 05-10-17, 08:47 PM
  #13  
Machka 
In Real Life
 
Machka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 51,891

Bikes: Lots

Mentioned: 138 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3119 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times in 217 Posts
Originally Posted by Dreww10 View Post
I'd like to shed about 10 pounds off my riding weight. The problem is that the only place on my body with any fat on it to lose is right on my stomach, and any attempt to lose weight across the board results in my looking like a terminally ill patient (ie. much too thin in the face, arms, etc.). I'm 6'0 with a 32-inch waist and hover right at 179-180 lbs., and have a relatively small but certainly pronounced spare tire around the waist that doesn't exactly scream "fit". My arms, shoulders, and chest are already scrawnier than I'd prefer.

Because I ride in volume and intensity, I'm able to maintain weight eating and drinking sugary and fatty everything; about a year ago I cut out soda, sweets, essentially all sugars for 4 four days and lost 7 pounds, but still riding in volume at the time, my body retaliated against it and I've abandoned any further weight loss attempts since so as to not hijack my training.

Is belly weight just a genetic trait, ie. having a flat stomach might just mean being ghastly thin everywhere else? Or can certain foods/exercises target belly weight only?

Sorry ... you can't spot reduce. Weight comes off wherever it feels like.

If we could spot reduce, we'd all look like surgery-enhanced models.

And for whatever reason, the belly area seems to be the last place to lose the weight.

You can, however, do weights and core work to build up your muscle tone, and perhaps improve your posture, which might tighten up the belly area.
Machka is offline  
Old 05-11-17, 10:23 AM
  #14  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,227
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12062 Post(s)
Liked 3,428 Times in 1,911 Posts
Originally Posted by Fett2oo5 View Post
It IS possible, and thousands of people, my fellow students, our collective clients, and myself have all done it. So don't say "it's impossible"
Ahhh, a salesman.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 05-11-17, 10:34 AM
  #15  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 16,398

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2403 Post(s)
Liked 478 Times in 352 Posts

I should mention that this exercise is a very good one. In fact, that's the only ab thing I do. I do this exercise mostly because it targets the hip flexors even more than the abs. If you don't lift your back off the backboard, it really targets only hip flexors. And hip flexors are really hard to target, yet they get so much use on the bike and stronger ones will give you a stronger pedal stroke. That said, it does almost nothing to burn fat. I don't even break a sweat doing 3 sets of 30 on it. My belly fat is not moved. BTW, you don't need to so the side-to-side bit. Does nothing for cycling unless you twist your torso from side to side as you pedal.
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Old 05-11-17, 10:59 AM
  #16  
12strings
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Madison, IN
Posts: 1,351

Bikes: 2015 Jamis Quest Comp

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 269 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Yep, as said, if you are skinny, you can and will lose fat and build muscle at the same time if you begin weight training and healthy diet. Some people say you can't, because after a time, for someone who has already built a certain amount of muscle and lost most extra fat...doing both begins to get harder, and so bodybuilders will cycle phases of targeting growth or fat loss...but if you have a spare tire and skinny upper body, you aren't at that point.

Short answer: weights are your solution. You might even stay a similar weight, but lose the tire and gain some broader shoulders.
12strings is offline  
Old 05-11-17, 04:12 PM
  #17  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,227
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12062 Post(s)
Liked 3,428 Times in 1,911 Posts
What @12strings says is correct. You can "recompose" your body if you're at your goal weight by doing a progressive resistance program and eating to maintain your weight (eg zero net calories).
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 05-14-17, 03:21 PM
  #18  
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,426

Bikes: Sekini 1979 ten speed racer

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 918 Post(s)
Liked 138 Times in 100 Posts
Love this debate because I've been through it.

Firstly, I wasn't even heavy to begin and I was getting a big belly as I was approaching 150lb. At the gym I was already bench pressing a little over my body weight and more at the squats and deadlifts. I was running on the treadmill until it read that I had burned 200 calories. I did some fat burning exercises listed in two books from Men's Health magazine. My edurance improved with those exercises. My doctor didn't seem too concerned because he already knew I was in good health. When I first became his patient I was 128 lb.

Then I did bike commuting and in a year I lost 10 pounds. Not only did MOST of my belly fat had gone, the fat all around my body did so too. I look at past photos and my head was round. My belly still protudes but not as much as before. I attribute that to age. I'm 55. A trainer-friend at the gym measured my overall body fat with one of those grip instruments and it came up with 10%.

From my experience, I also could not target the belly fat. It was an overall body thing. I had heard from another training session that ab exercises will make your ab muscles stronger. And guess what happens when your muscles get stronger? They grow. So ab exercises will make your abs bigger.

Fat is also genetic. Many people exercise a lot but can't lose the weight. Aside from the looks, if your heart and organs are ok and you can endure long walks, runs or stair climbing, don't worry too much.

Last edited by Daniel4; 05-14-17 at 03:32 PM.
Daniel4 is offline  
Old 02-11-20, 08:57 PM
  #19  
eveeverly
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Targeting your abs with useless abs exercises is a waste of time and energy... Squats, deadlifts, overhead pressing, rows, pull ups, kettlebell workouts and interval training are a lot more beneficial for losing belly fat.
The real secret to abs is diet and resistance training which targets your full body and not just the abs.
That's right. Exercise affects most of the body's muscles. Exercises directed at a certain part can move the muscles of the whole body. For the reduction of belly fat, I did these: eat a lot of soluble fiber, eat fat fish, replace some cooking fat with coconut oil, and use a men's fitness belt for resistance training. After two months, I saw significant results.
eveeverly is offline  
Old 02-11-20, 09:29 PM
  #20  
CyclingBK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked 74 Times in 49 Posts
No. I dropped about 20 lbs over 2 years to get down to my 20 year old weight while lifting and doing cardio and just recently cycling. Had a slight calorie deficit since I like to eat ; )

Its been great and the fat has come off all over and Iíve added some nice muscle mass. Scary that Iíve probably dropped over 20lbs of fat since I think Iíve gained a few pounds of muscle at least.

But that last bit of belly/love handle fat is the last to go and very stubborn. Itís coming off bit by bit. At this rate, maybe another year to really see all the abs. But, overall, very satisfied with the progress.
CyclingBK is offline  
Old 02-12-20, 03:54 PM
  #21  
AdkMtnMonster
Airplanes, bikes, beer.
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Off the front
Posts: 292

Bikes: Canyon Endurace CF SL 8.0

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 156 Post(s)
Liked 335 Times in 130 Posts
Originally Posted by Fett2oo5 View Post
I take issue with your usage of absolutes...

It IS possible, and thousands of people, my fellow students, our collective clients, and myself have all done it. So don't say "it's impossible"

You can and will.

Unless you're an expert in the field, please refrain from using absolutes, and common/uncommon acceptance as fact.

Instead of going into a tirade, citing my research and sources, and further derailing this thread, I'll just say this. If you have an opinion please don't use that as a fact for all cases.
@FreaStevens I mean no disrespect, I'm only pointing out MY issues with the verbiage you used, in this particular post. If I've somehow offended you, I apologize. I went to school for many years and studied Kinesciology, and in the effort to help the OP I wanted to offer some of my knowledge and experience.
Dude, you got duped, because Kinesciology isnít even a real word. Heh.
AdkMtnMonster is offline  
Likes For AdkMtnMonster:
Old 02-12-20, 06:56 PM
  #22  
bruce19
Senior Member
 
bruce19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 7,236

Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1201 Post(s)
Liked 535 Times in 314 Posts
Originally Posted by dabac View Post
Short of liposuction, there's no way to target fat loss - whatever the Shopping Network is trying to tell you.


As far as your body is concerned, that's like trying to drain only one corner of a pool.


If you want rid of it bad enough, stick to the diet longer. When there's no more to get from other parts, even the stugbborn areas will be affected.
I think this is about it. Not encouraging but true.
bruce19 is offline  
Old 02-12-20, 06:58 PM
  #23  
bruce19
Senior Member
 
bruce19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 7,236

Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1201 Post(s)
Liked 535 Times in 314 Posts
Originally Posted by AdkMtnMonster View Post
Dude, you got duped, because Kinesciology isnít even a real word. Heh.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinesiology
bruce19 is offline  
Old 02-12-20, 08:10 PM
  #24  
AdkMtnMonster
Airplanes, bikes, beer.
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Off the front
Posts: 292

Bikes: Canyon Endurace CF SL 8.0

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 156 Post(s)
Liked 335 Times in 130 Posts
Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
Sure, "kinesiology" is a word, and an area of legitimate study. The poster who proclaimed to have majored in "kinesciology" perhaps missed out the actual spelling of his/her major. Twice. Hope you're having a better day now that you've found your sense of humor.
AdkMtnMonster is offline  
Old 02-13-20, 09:52 AM
  #25  
bruce19
Senior Member
 
bruce19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 7,236

Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1201 Post(s)
Liked 535 Times in 314 Posts
Originally Posted by AdkMtnMonster View Post
Sure, "kinesiology" is a word, and an area of legitimate study. The poster who proclaimed to have majored in "kinesciology" perhaps missed out the actual spelling of his/her major. Twice. Hope you're having a better day now that you've found your sense of humor.
I don't have bad days. And, when someone tries to bring me one, I just evaporate them.
bruce19 is offline  
Likes For bruce19:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.