Originally Posted by tempocyclist
(Post 22978518)
On the road, get the widest tyres you can so you can run lower pressure, 28-30mm. If you're a "23mm and 100psi" kind of guy, forget about it. I’m into my second year on 25mm tubeless rubber at 90/95psi. |
Originally Posted by chaadster
(Post 22980062)
Brother, respectfully, that is a very wrong statement, because I’m a Clyde-weight rider (meaning: high pressure) who happily rode 23c tubeless for 10 years, so “forget about it” cannot be the right assessment.
I’m into my second year on 25mm tubeless rubber at 90/95psi. |
Originally Posted by PoorInRichfield
(Post 22979564)
Having gone tubeless a few years ago, I can see why some people don't like it... although I'm totally sold on it. I had tire punctures two weekends in a row last month on very long rides and I didn't have to do anything to fix the punctures other than make sure the thing that made the puncture (a staple in one case) wasn't still in the tire.
The one disadvantage of going tubeless is the learning curve. I just recently learned that you periodically have to check your tires to make sure the sealant is still "fresh" in the tires. I.e., I pulled off one of my tires expecting to find a pool of white tire sealant and all I found was a watery substance and most of the sealant's rubbery goop had dried onto the inside of the tire. Had I flatted I gotten a puncture, it's unlikely the hole would've been sealed. The second disadvantage of going tubeless is that it sure can be messy. If I ever had a flat on the road that the tubeless setup couldn't fix, I'd call for a ride home rather than deal with mess of putting in a tube on a wheel that is full of gooey, sticky sealant. All in all, going tubeless requires more maintenance while you're at home to ensure your tires ready for the next ride and if you do that, your tires should save you from having to do maintenance on the side of the road (for most punctures) which you'd have to do with a tube. For checking the condition of sealant in the tire, there's a tool: a little plastic dipstick that comes with--or used to, at least--the big bottles of Orange Seal. To use it, you have to remove the valve core, but you don't have to unseat the tire bead. |
Originally Posted by Eric F
(Post 22979543)
Why?
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Originally Posted by Broctoon
(Post 22980212)
For checking the condition of sealant in the tire, there's a tool: a little plastic dipstick that comes with--or used to, at least--the big bottles of Orange Seal. To use it, you have to remove the valve core, but you don't have to unseat the tire bead.
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Originally Posted by Jrasero
(Post 22980230)
28c more comfort, better rolling resistance, and on a modern rim more aero but also more grip and in theory less punctures due to larger contact patch and lower pressure
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Originally Posted by Jrasero
(Post 22980230)
28c more comfort, better rolling resistance, and on a modern rim more aero but also more grip and in theory less punctures due to larger contact patch and lower pressure
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
(Post 22980232)
I've recommended tubeless syringes for years - they're great for adding and removing sealant without a mess and without breaking the bead. I've been using $10 jobbers from Amazon, but Park Tools recently released a (presumably) more robust version. The "needles" will clog a little more easily than the larger tubes that screw on to the valve stem body, so you do need to clean/flush with water more diligently and, even then, your can expect to replace them a little more frequently.
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Originally Posted by Eric F
(Post 22980251)
I'm using one of those cheap Amazon ones. So far, it's been fine. Flushing it out with water after use is part of my routine with that tool.
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
(Post 22980253)
I do need a new one, and I think that I still have some money left on an Amazon gift card. Maybe I'll go nuts and get the Park version.
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
(Post 22980232)
I've recommended tubeless syringes for years - they're great for adding and removing sealant without a mess and without breaking the bead. I've been using $10 jobbers from Amazon, but Park Tools recently released a (presumably) more robust version. The "needles" will clog a little more easily than the larger tubes that screw on to the valve stem body, so you do need to clean/flush with water more diligently and, even then, your can expect to replace them a little more frequently.
- Fit the tire over the rim, both beads - With the valve core removed, seat the beads using my air compressor/tank - Inject sealant through the stem - Install valve core and pump up the tire to desired pressure with a floor pump - Oscillate, spin, and bounce the wheel to distribute sealant. (The bouncing part is important.) A few tips that I've found helpful for the most difficult step, which is seating the beads: - Set the tire outside on a sunny day for a while to warm it up before installation - Spray a little soapy water onto the beads to make them slippery - After the initial burst of air, while pressure in the tire is still low, squeeze/massage the tire in several spots, then give it some more pressure The moment I find more satisfying than probably anything else I do in my garage: - When the last spot or two of the tire beads pop into place on the rim, sometimes with a sharp snapping sound The thing that scares my trusty garage dog the most, with the possible exception of my shop vac: - The one I mentioned immediately above. (Honey and I have very different reactions to bead seating) |
Originally Posted by chaadster
(Post 22980062)
Brother, respectfully, that is a very wrong statement, because I’m a Clyde-weight rider (meaning: high pressure) who happily rode 23c tubeless for 10 years, so “forget about it” cannot be the right assessment.
I’m into my second year on 25mm tubeless rubber at 90/95psi. Any holes simply wouldn't seal quickly enough, blowing sealant everywhere until around 40psi. Since going slightly wider (so a lower-pressure) I've had no issues. Maybe I was just unlucky in sealant choice. |
Originally Posted by tempocyclist
(Post 22980612)
Interesting. I never had any luck at anything over 80-ish psi. ☹️
Any holes simply wouldn't seal quickly enough, blowing sealant everywhere until around 40psi. Since going slightly wider (so a lower-pressure) I've had no issues. Maybe I was just unlucky in sealant choice. That road tubeless existed before the low-pressure trend and persisted to this day is because it works at high pressures. When American Classic dropped their Road Tubeless in fall ‘13, at 19.4mm internal, it was the widest tubeless rim in existence, designed around 23mm tires, and yet well short of the +20mm IWs that would enable typical pressures to drop below 100psi, let alone the sub-80ish you’re talking about. My point here is that regardless of your experience, which may be described as the result of a number of various factors, one should not find it “interesting” that road tubeless works after more than 20 years in service. High pressure road tubeless was under the man in yellow as early as the 2004 Tour de France, with Thomas Voeckler on Telecom. Wanna guess what pressures he ran? |
Originally Posted by Eric F
(Post 22980245)
I understand all that. However, what if the bike won't fit a 28? If 26 is the largest that will fit, would you not run tubeless? If not, why?
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Originally Posted by chaadster
(Post 22980839)
one should not find it “interesting” that road tubeless works after more than 20 years in service
Originally Posted by chaadster
(Post 22980839)
High pressure road tubeless was under the man in yellow as early as the 2004 Tour de France, with Thomas Voeckler on Telecom. Wanna guess what pressures he ran?
😘 |
Originally Posted by tempocyclist
(Post 22980908)
Why not? As with most bike tech, I find it interesting. 🙄
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Originally Posted by tempocyclist
(Post 22980908)
Also interesting.
😘 www.cyclingnews.com presents the 91st Tour de France, 2004 |
The much lower pressures associated with modern, wider road tyres and rims simply makes tubeless even more effective. You can seal a bigger hole at 60 psi than you can at 120 psi and the loss in pressure while sealing a puncture will be less with a larger air volume. Stories of people getting sprayed with sealant are not happening at lower pressures. At 60 psi you just get a little spattering on the seat tube at most.
This is probably why tubeless became mainstream much earlier with mtb tyres with their much lower pressures and thicker tread. |
I've been running regular tubed setups on my road bikes for years.
When I upgraded my bike over the summer to a one-year-old Giant Defy Advanced, it came with tubeless tires. I looked forward to making the tubeless switch. Anyway, they were very reliable for the short period I have used them. What turned me off of them was when the bike sat for a month while I was out of the country, BOTH tires deflated and unseated from rims. No big deal, just fill up w/air and be done with it, right? Well, not quite....I went ahead and flipped bike over onto my bike holder and several ounces of goo spread all over the frame and floor....my bad....live-and-learn As expected my bike pumps could not seat the tires back on the rim. However I did expect to be able to use CO2 to get things seated though. Even after I removed the valve inserts my CO2 fillers could not seat the tires! I had to go to the bike shop just to get them filled because only a compressed air tank could do it. Anyway, when I upgraded my wheels I chose to go with tubed setup. I have never been stranded due to tire failure or field-unrepairable-flat in 10s-of-thousands of miles of riding. If I need a compressor just to reseat a troublesome tire when totally flat I'll pass on tubeless. |
I wouldn't give up on tubeless due to a single problem that required an air compressor to fix. Not all tubeless tires work poorly, but some can suffer from bead stretch and make reseating difficult. Owning an air compressor, I don't have any problem seating new tires. I use only orange seal endurance sealant. I also use all hookless rims that are 23-25mm internal width and 28-30mm tires at 60 psi or lower pressure. I had problems with Michelin tubless tires and bead stretch after around 9 months of use. One of them became unseated when I let the air out to add more sealant. I could get the tire reseated with the valve core removed and a shot of air from my compressor, but it immediately unseated before I could install the valve core. That tire got trashed and I'll not be using any more Michelin tubeless tires. I've had no such problem with Pirelli P-Zero tires. I've removed a year old Pirelli tire from the front and moved it to the rear with no problem. Hooked rims are also less likely to have an unseating problem. I used Michelin tubeless with hooked fulcrum rims with no unseating problem.
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Originally Posted by pullings
(Post 23048162)
I've been running regular tubed setups on my road bikes for years.
When I upgraded my bike over the summer to a one-year-old Giant Defy Advanced, it came with tubeless tires. I looked forward to making the tubeless switch. Anyway, they were very reliable for the short period I have used them. What turned me off of them was when the bike sat for a month while I was out of the country, BOTH tires deflated and unseated from rims. No big deal, just fill up w/air and be done with it, right? Well, not quite....I went ahead and flipped bike over onto my bike holder and several ounces of goo spread all over the frame and floor....my bad....live-and-learn As expected my bike pumps could not seat the tires back on the rim. However I did expect to be able to use CO2 to get things seated though. Even after I removed the valve inserts my CO2 fillers could not seat the tires! I had to go to the bike shop just to get them filled because only a compressed air tank could do it. Anyway, when I upgraded my wheels I chose to go with tubed setup. I have never been stranded due to tire failure or field-unrepairable-flat in 10s-of-thousands of miles of riding. If I need a compressor just to reseat a troublesome tire when totally flat I'll pass on tubeless. |
Narrower tires will try to pull themselves away from the rim bead if deflated, especially if your rim does not have a tire retention bump or ridge. I had that happen once with some 25mm Pro Ones and 20.5mm rims (NOX carbon rims). That was several years ago. No issue now on three road bikes and a gravel bike in years. Of course, this basically never happens on mountain bikes.
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Funnily enough just reinflated some 25mm IRC tubeless on hunt mason-x which had been sitting around the garage for 6 months+
No issues at all. Suspect the sealant is in bad shape but I’ll have to hope for no punctures tomorrow as I don’t have time to re-do it. edit: yep, still inflated this morning and 110km in the autumn sunshine with zero issues (@80psi pressure fans) :) |
Originally Posted by pullings
(Post 23048162)
I
When I upgraded my bike over the summer to a one-year-old Giant Defy Advanced, it came with tubeless tires. I looked forward to making the tubeless switch. Anyway, they were very reliable for the short period I have used them. What turned me off of them was when the bike sat for a month while I was out of the country, BOTH tires deflated and unseated from rims. No big deal, just fill up w/air and be done with it, right? |
I found out a new quirk about road tubeless: the tire sidewall can become distorted over time. Because of this the tire slowly leaks air. This is on Schwalbe Pro One Addix.
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