Originally Posted by Reynolds
(Post 23164939)
I suppose the final word is the manufacturer's recommendations/instructions. Is your affirmation based on any of them? Just curious.
One of the worst things as a tech is to have comebacks of any kind. Many shops now days have zero tolerance and plenty of service managers never did, it was guaranteed to get you on their bad side where you could easily stay if they were really a hard azz whether it was your fault or not. This was also the best reasoning for preventative maintenance that is what proper BB service is. There is always time to do it right but never time to do it again. ;) Furthermore I'm not concerned with anyone else's opinion on this be it a manufacturer or St. Sheldon. I know from vast experience what it takes to get down the road or track and back home. :) |
Originally Posted by trainman999
(Post 23164546)
A few tips for removing BB 1 loosen the fixed cup first. 2 Clamp the removal tool to the cup. 3 set the bike on the ground with air in the tires, 4 stand in front of bike holding handelbars, press down on tool with foot, use cheater bar if needed. 5 loosen the adjestable cup. .6 put bike in stand and dissamble.
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Originally Posted by merziac
(Post 23165216)
I would strongly encourage you to get a proper fixed cup tool and use some method to hold it firmly in place, all thread, clamps, etc.
A fixed cup wrench encircles the cup for far better purchase when every last bit counts. I have a Sugino that I have had for over 50 years that is the only one I really use, Campy is next with Park last, I have them all, the Sugino has never failed me. Then have a good cheater set up, I have a 4 foot thinwall pipe that is flatened at one end and slips over the wrench when needed. The big crescent wrench can work ok but most have tapered jaws that can be hard to hold flat, square on the cup and often try to "cam" out/off and round off the flats, once this happens, you lose the best footing and success is much less likely without extreme measures. It can be imperative to get it very right from the jump. ;) |
Originally Posted by RH Clark
(Post 23165437)
Do you perhaps have a link where I can buy these tools. I wasn't even aware anything was available except the Park tool. I'm still new at this. Thanks.
They have to come from efbay as do the Campy's and they often are not cheap but worth the extra, again IMO. Plenty to be had but ones in could good shape may be a challenge, they are tough and don't have to be perfect but the better, the better. ;) https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...+tool&_sacat=0 You can look for Campy too but you need to check good pics closely. |
Originally Posted by RH Clark
(Post 23164191)
I thought about that when watching the video.
I was about to order the tools and may leave off the fixed cup tool as it costs as much as the bb lock ring tool and pin spanner combined.
Originally Posted by John E
(Post 23164431)
Just use the Sheldon Brown nut, washers, bolt removal system. It is also OK to treat it as the fixed cup it is. :)
here is the link to the sheldon brown tool https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html |
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the best method.
Chuck the adjustable BB and put in a sealed bearing unit. |
Originally Posted by gugie
(Post 23165638)
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the best method.
Chuck the adjustable BB and put in a sealed bearing unit. |
Originally Posted by squirtdad
(Post 23165630)
here is the link to the sheldon brown tool https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
(Post 23165870)
Am I understanding correctly that the washers just sandwich the fixed cup and hold it by pressure of the tightened nuts?
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Originally Posted by gugie
(Post 23165638)
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the best method.
Chuck the adjustable BB and put in a sealed bearing unit. |
Originally Posted by RH Clark
(Post 23165870)
Am I understanding correctly that the washers just sandwich the fixed cup and hold it by pressure of the tightened nuts?
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5f3ffcea3e.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d829668bba.jpg |
Originally Posted by RH Clark
(Post 23165865)
I would have to learn what to order and where to order it, how to make sure it's installed properly, etc.
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
(Post 23165865)
I didn't research it until I see if it's a necessary change or just an option.
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
(Post 23166149)
I understand a bike shop would throw out a perfectly good vintage bb to save time and upcharge an unsuspecting customer, but don't really know why an owner would do that. :foo:
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Originally Posted by gugie
(Post 23165638)
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the best method.
Chuck the adjustable BB and put in a sealed bearing unit. |
Originally Posted by RH Clark
(Post 23165870)
Am I understanding correctly that the washers just sandwich the fixed cup and hold it by pressure of the tightened nuts?
also good idea to put some penetrating oil on and let it soak in (I like freeze off) and you will also likely need a cheater bar |
Originally Posted by gugie
(Post 23165638)
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the best method.
Chuck the adjustable BB and put in a sealed bearing unit. |
Originally Posted by RH Clark
(Post 23165870)
Am I understanding correctly that the washers just sandwich the fixed cup and hold it by pressure of the tightened nuts?
So once this is successful there is no reason not to keep it original as it was, clean, lube, adjust and properly torque so you're good to go. ;) |
SteinTool has a very nice and effective fixed cup wrench clamp.
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Working in a bike shop during the 80s we would leave the fix cup in for overhauling the BB.
If we had to take out a tough fixed cup out we would remove the wheels, turn the frame horizontal, clamp the cup in a vise with square jaws and use the leverage to turn the frame. Some cups have narrow flat portions so getting the bike perfectly flat in the vise was critical. This was a last resort and could scrape the paint on the BB frame edge if the cup flats were very narrow. Always worked though...... |
Originally Posted by merziac
(Post 23164514)
The "fixed" cup ALWAYS comes out for proper service of the cup and BB shell threads, inspect, clean and torque, period.
Any other version is neither complete or correct. Risking damaging the frame and cup is pointless. |
Originally Posted by Kontact
(Post 23167094)
I don't agree. The fixed cup is poorly designed for easy removal, and if it is a chromed steel cup in a steel frame, there is nothing happening between them that needs servicing. Everything necessary for bearing service can be accomplished with it intact, and that is the way bike shops do it.
Risking damaging the frame and cup is pointless. This is why some are professionals or as good as, many things are not easy, if you're not competent or skilled enough, admit it and don't make up excuses for unacceptable practice. We know you don't agree and I don't care if you disagree or if you and the bike shops shortcut the process on all those unsuspecting customers all those years. Proper BB service includes the threads of the fixed cup and BB shell as well as proper torquing upon reassembly. If you can't get the fixed cup out without damage then by all means kick the can down the road and leave it up to someone who doesn't know any better and is sure to screw it up for you. There is no risk doing this if you know what you are doing, apparently that is not you. I have NEVER, EVER damaged any tools, parts, frames, paint or flesh doing this my way. Your argument is pointless, you go ahead and do you man, I'm sure it works just fine for you. |
Originally Posted by Oldbill
(Post 23167091)
Working in a bike shop during the 80s we would leave the fix cup in for overhauling the BB.
If we had to take out a tough fixed cup out we would remove the wheels, turn the frame horizontal, clamp the cup in a vise with square jaws and use the leverage to turn the frame. Some cups have narrow flat portions so getting the bike perfectly flat in the vise was critical. This was a last resort and could scrape the paint on the BB frame edge if the cup flats were very narrow. Always worked though...... There needs to be 2 separate containment's, one for the tool and one for the frame, especially when you have to really lean in. The possible paint scrape is an unavoidable byproduct of the process and can always be touched up if necessary. Many jaws don't align correctly over time, especially the worn top edge that is critical for this. |
Originally Posted by merziac
(Post 23167160)
And there it is, "easy removal". :twitchy:
This is why some are professionals or as good as, many things are not easy, if you're not competent or skilled enough, admit it and don't make up excuses for unacceptable practice. We know you don't agree and I don't care if you disagree or if you and the bike shops shortcut the process on all those unsuspecting customers all those years. Proper BB service includes the threads of the fixed cup and BB shell as well as proper torquing upon reassembly. If you can't get the fixed cup out without damage then by all means kick the can down the road and leave it up to someone who doesn't know any better and is sure to screw it up for you. There is no risk doing this if you know what you are doing, apparently that is not you. I have NEVER, EVER damaged any tools, parts, frames, paint or flesh doing this my way. Your argument is pointless, you go ahead and do you man, I'm sure it works just fine for you. I am a superlative mechanic, and can also remove and install fixed cups all day without damage. However, you and I aren't going to the OP's house to pull his cups for him. This is an advice forum largely for people that aren't necessarily great mechanics or DIYers, and the small engagement and high torque involved in fixed cup removal represents a risk that is largely unnecessary for the life of the BB. They are torqued down so tight that Italian cups won't move. Do you remove headset cups crown races to do a headset service? I don't do that either because the cost/benefit isn't there. You made your point; I made mine. Both are reasonable perspectives, but only one of us had to be insulting. The OP can decide to take any set of advice he wants on the merits, and hopefully not on who is ruder. |
Originally Posted by merziac
(Post 23167186)
The possible paint scrape is an unavoidable byproduct of the process and can always be touched up if necessary.
Originally Posted by merziac
(Post 23167160)
I have NEVER, EVER damaged any tools, parts, frames, paint or flesh doing this my way.
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