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Another modern bike I really like is the Twin Six rando.
I see it a little more straight all road than rando, but it sure rides nicely. Not terribly expensive for a new bike either. https://www.twinsix.com/collections/...nt=32305145798 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/08...g?v=1490297430 |
Carlton Corsair
1 Attachment(s)
Plenty of these around fairly light strong and cheap 32 mm tyres as well!!
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I use this.
[IMG]http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k2...psbhgtqdk4.jpg[/IMG] Pick one up used for best value. |
I had Space Horse (canti) for a long time. Finally re-built it for my wife as it was too small for me. I still miss it (and I bought Mr Pink, Nature Boy in Reynolds 853 and Miyata 1000 since). If I ever come across 55cm frame in the color I like (first year root beer or blue/white) - I will buy it again.
It is excellent frame and does not feel dead when unloaded. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy my other bikes very much but Space Horse has something very special, IMHO. Good read if you have a second - Space Horse Gravel Racer and End of an Era?.Saying Farewell to the Classic Space Horse |
Originally Posted by fender1
(Post 19529948)
I use this.
[IMG]http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k2...psbhgtqdk4.jpg[/IMG] Pick one up used for best value. I couldn't afford a brand new frameset for my wife's new ride, but I managed to score this pretty used MAP frameset. Just about ready to build this in a week or so. Parts are coming from everywhere. https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2865/3...6fe66b49_b.jpg-1 by gomango1849, on Flickr |
Originally Posted by gomango
(Post 19530039)
Agreed.
I couldn't afford a brand new frameset for my wife's new ride, but I managed to score this pretty used MAP frameset. Just about ready to build this in a week or so. Parts are coming from everywhere. https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2865/3...6fe66b49_b.jpg-1 by gomango1849, on Flickr |
Originally Posted by JWK
(Post 19528334)
Thanks for any advice and/or info.
1- ignore any claim that because of weighy you need a modern frame. That's absurd. I am 230# and just finished a 35mi ride on old steel with climbs and everythong. The road frame doesnt flex, even when climbing out of the saddle, to where i ghostshift. The frame works just fine for me. My full loaded touring buke is a frame i bought from anpthr BF member on this forum. Its a steel frame with classic tubing sizes and supports me plus loaded weight just fine. If you can find a vintage frame thst fits you on ebay and is designed to handle what you want to do...awesome. Otherwise- Soma, VeloOrange, AllCity, and Black Mountain have a lot of similar priced options which could wourk for what you want. Look up Traitor too...that brand has a couple frame styles which could work. Ill plug Black Mountain as I have their gravel frame and love it. It is made with quality tubing that is relatively light(compared to Surly) and the finish is excellent. Their road frame is a really great option for what youve mentioned wanting. |
Originally Posted by bdooner
(Post 19528349)
I'd check out the Black Mountain Monstercross and Soma's offerings. Great multi purpose frames. Nice bi plane fork on the Monster and larger tire accommodation.
Originally Posted by Andy_K
(Post 19528403)
Well, you're asking in the C&V forum, so you probably know what kind of answer you're going to get, right? The fact that you can do your own work tilts the scales very heavily in favor of vintage IMO, but it also depends on how patient you are and what your local market is like.
Assuming you're going to pay the retail price of $600 for the Space Horse, your point of comparison is nearly any vintage bike frame on the market. Let me show you a few vintage frames I've bought in the past year to give you an idea of the range of what's out there. I paid about the same for the Pinarello that you would for a new Space Horse. It's not the kind of frame you're looking for, but I'm sharing to give you an idea of what a vintage frame in that price range can be like. When new it would have been painted, but the bare chrome when I bought it was in fantastic condition. Pinarello (whether justly so or not may be debated) is a brand that draws a premium price these days and the Montello was their top of the line frame in the mid to late 80's. It's got Columbus SLX tubing and came with a headset in good condition. The Centurion isn't quite the other end of the spectrum, but it's about as low as I'd go unless I was just wanting something to tinker with in the garage. It has Tange 2 tubing (not top of the line, but not bad) with a Tange Mangalloy fork (kind of low end). It was about in the middle of Centurion's offerings in 1986. The paint on this one is badly chipped all over the place and the frame has a few minor dents. It came with a headset, Shimano HTII bottom bracket and mis-sized seatpost. This also isn't quite what you're after (it wouldn't take more than 700x28 tires), but it's close and you could likely find something of this quality in this price range that did have the characteristics you're looking for. The Trek, I think, is just about exactly what you're after. It has a Reynolds 531 main triangle (excellent stuff) with Ishiwata stays and forks (above average but below 531). The paint was in excellent condition, though I can see places where the previous owner touched it up (seen by texture, not color mismatch). There is some minor damage on the chainstays from an over-zealous kickstand installation somewhere in its past. It came with a good headset and bottom bracket. This frame takes 27x1-1/4" tires with plenty of clearance. I haven't tried it with 700c wheels, but 35mm tires would probably fit. If I went down to 650B (a popular choice in rando circles), I'd be looking at 38's or maybe even 42's. It has all the braze-ons I'd need for modern components, fenders and a rack. In my mind, for $160 this frame kicks the Space Horse's booty pretty hard.
Originally Posted by Andy_K
(Post 19528412)
I should also mention that if you're willing to buy a complete vintage bike and sell off the parts you could get a mid-level frame essentially for free (minus your time). Don't worry too much about parting out "a classic" because despite popular enthusiasm in some circles most vintage bikes are not rare or irreplaceable. Most vintage bikes you'll find are more like 80's Camaros than 60's Ferraris.
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Originally Posted by johnnyace
(Post 19528485)
Depending on what size you're looking for, I have a 1988 Miyata 615 for sale (see my sig). It's a touring bike, but I would say "light touring" rather than the full-touring Miyata 1000. 57cm, 27" wheels, possibly could be converted (definitely wide enough for 32+mm).
Originally Posted by gomango
(Post 19528514)
Touchdown.
That's what I did.
Originally Posted by noglider
(Post 19528718)
It takes a lot of tinkering to take an old frame and get everything the way you want it. Is that good or bad? It depends. And still, there will be compromises, such as fender clearance or luggage rack braze-ons. But this has been my approach. I haven't bought a new bike in ages.
I don't know the Space Horse, but my wife has an All City Macho Man. Very impressive. If you want to be done with it, buy that. You'll be happy. But it might cost more. Then again, all the tinkering has had me buying a few components more than once, to get it just right. But I have to wonder: what would I have to buy more than once if I was pretty much putting all new components on a vintage frame? I thought (and perhaps incorrectly) that if I was to put a complete 9 speed drive train on a vintage frame, it would be like building up any other modern frame. Not so?
Originally Posted by rccardr
(Post 19528863)
If you intend to ride the same amount of daily miles that you do now, the LHT with the racks removed should work just fine, and won't cost anything.
If you intend to ride more daily miles than you do now, the LHT with the racks removed until you do something requiring racks should work just fine, and also costs no more money. 1. I would like to enjoy my rides more than I do now. 2. I always want a new/different bike. I freely admit, without hesitation, that I have diffficulty telling which one of those two are driving me more. So it goes. Also, I find it ironically funny that you are the one in this thread telling me this, not knowing that I have been dreaming for the last four years of finding a good 23" Cannondale touring frame to replace my Surly. I also fantasize that a stripped down Cannondale tourer with nice light wheels and quality 32mm tires might make a fine rando bike. Most say it's too stiff for that. I don't know, I like my Surly well enough except for the fact that it's so heavy. I think the extra long wheelbase makes up for it being stiff framed in a way. But what do I know? Not much. That's why I'm here. |
Originally Posted by JWK
(Post 19532733)
Do you have one? I have checked them out in the past couple of weeks. There's a lot of things I like about them, but I'm a little confused about the 130mm rear spacing.
Here is mine set up for gravel riding. The 130mm rear is just a standard road hub size. |
Originally Posted by JWK
(Post 19532809)
I would like to hear how you use the bike and if you have compared it to similar type bikes.
Yesterday I did a long one. Just under 57 miles. It was a nice mix of city streets, country roads and gravel. Today I did a nice 50 or so mile ride on a MUP out to Strillwater with friends and it was a very comfortable ride with this steel frameset. Also, the Soma tires I use are equally competent on any of these surfaces. The bike handles all of these situations equally well for me, especially hard packed gravel. As for comparing the frameset to others, I have ridden many, many bikes over the years. PM me if you want specifics. Too hard to put into a single post. |
Originally Posted by JWK
(Post 19532733)
Thank you very much. That's very informative. A bike like the Trek seems very much what I'm after. I've been scouring the Maine CL, but have just found lower end and over-priced stuff so far. Someone had that exact Centurion down in Portland. They wanted $225 for the complete bike. That was the most reasonable deal I've found so far, but as you say, not really what I'm looking for.
But I guess that's the big difference between buying new and buying vintage. You could place an order for the Space Horse today in the size you want. To find the vintage bike you want in your size you might need to do a lot of shopping and be willing to sell off parts you don't want. |
Originally Posted by clasher
(Post 19528955)
I started out riding brevets on a vintage miele road bike which worked fine for 200s and 300. I wanted a dynamo and fenders so I upgraded my miyata 1000 and it worked well enough for a couple 400s but something in the fit caused a cramp on a 600. I ended up doing a couple more 200s on that miyata without any problems. In 2016 I got a good deal on a specialized roubaix and ended up using that in 2016 and had much nicer fit on it than I did on my miyata; did a whole SR without any real issues.
I just found out about Soma's Pescadero Frame and think it'd be the way to go for a classic looking rando bike with modern parts. I prefer dual pivots to cantilevers so it scores another point for me there. I'm about your weight and I don't worry about riding carbon or my lightweight steel bikes on long rides one bit, which is what I liked about the miyata 1000 over something like the LHT. My girlfriend rides brevets with me on LHT and does just fine... there are a couple of other touring bikes in our club but most are carbon or aluminum road bikes. I'll check out the pescadero frame. Thanks for that suggestion. My wife also has a Surly. We got them at the same time. She has one of the smallest frames. Between the weight and the way it handles, it's not even the same bike as mine. She loves it and doesn't want anything else. She says it's the nicest bike she's ever owned.
Originally Posted by Daveyk15
(Post 19529896)
Plenty of these around fairly light strong and cheap 32 mm tyres as well!!
Originally Posted by mongol777
(Post 19529996)
I had Space Horse (canti) for a long time. Finally re-built it for my wife as it was too small for me. I still miss it (and I bought Mr Pink, Nature Boy in Reynolds 853 and Miyata 1000 since). If I ever come across 55cm frame in the color I like (first year root beer or blue/white) - I will buy it again.
It is excellent frame and does not feel dead when unloaded. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy my other bikes very much but Space Horse has something very special, IMHO. Good read if you have a second - Space Horse Gravel Racer and End of an Era?.Saying Farewell to the Classic Space Horse
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
(Post 19530211)
A used(vintage) frame will cost less. It just depends on if you find something you like in tue time frame you are willing to look.
1- ignore any claim that because of weighy you need a modern frame. That's absurd. I am 230# and just finished a 35mi ride on old steel with climbs and everythong. The road frame doesnt flex, even when climbing out of the saddle, to where i ghostshift. The frame works just fine for me. My full loaded touring buke is a frame i bought from anpthr BF member on this forum. Its a steel frame with classic tubing sizes and supports me plus loaded weight just fine. If you can find a vintage frame thst fits you on ebay and is designed to handle what you want to do...awesome. Otherwise- Soma, VeloOrange, AllCity, and Black Mountain have a lot of similar priced options which could wourk for what you want. Look up Traitor too...that brand has a couple frame styles which could work. Ill plug Black Mountain as I have their gravel frame and love it. It is made with quality tubing that is relatively light(compared to Surly) and the finish is excellent. Their road frame is a really great option for what you've mentioned wanting. |
Originally Posted by JWK
(Post 19532888)
You tempt me with the Black Mountain Monster Cross. I've often said to my wife over the past few years that I want a lighter, more responsive Surly LHT. How do you use your BM gravel bike? How long have you had it? Do you find it reasonably responsive unloaded?
Its 70% gravel road rides and 30% pavement riding. I think its a great build on gravel or pavement and 7 or the last 9 road rides ive done i used that bike, half because it was ready and i could grab it and half because its gun to ride. These are 13-15mph group rides, so nothing competitive as its with a large group of kids. The tubing is thinner than an LHT and per the internets a 56cm frame is slightly lighter than a Ritchey Swisscross frame...which is surprising for the $. The Road frame is really one i would love to try as the frsmes are lighter thsn the monstercross, can take up to 32mm tires, and look lole they have comfortable geometry. But they dont come in sasquatchian size, so i am out of luck. |
Originally Posted by JWK
(Post 19532888)
I have actually started checking out used roubaix bikes from the 2007 - 2010 era. Good quality carbon frames and rim brakes. A lot to like. No fenders, though. That's a big compromise if I finally get to do my first 200k and it's raining.
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6'1", 205 when I'm in riding shape.
'71 International, low trail 650b mods, this one did a 200km brevet in under 10 hours. As shown in the pic below I went on a 3 day trip to the BQ un-meeting last year. 65 miles to campground day one, 90 miles with just handlebar bag, 50% gravel day two, then 65 miles back: https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7487/2...54533f1e_b.jpg Another vinatage bike with a couple of brevets under it's belt, also an 8 day, 500mile trip as shown: https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7375/1...6519a007_b.jpg You need a stiff frame if you're carrying a significant load in the back. With a handlebar bag and low rider panniers up front, I find I can climb a shoulderless road and stay pretty much on the white line - no "tail wagging the dog" |
Originally Posted by Barabaika
(Post 19529294)
Wouldn't this bicycle work for you? It has a rack, of course.
I suspect that the rear wheel has 40 spokes for a big guy. https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/bik/6084950100.html You can rebuild the rear wheel with a modern hub and add modern shifters. https://images.craigslist.org/00606_...k_1200x900.jpg Ah, well, something like it will show up here eventually. |
There were many bikes built over many decades in England for exactly what you want. England has a 100 year history of bad roads and bikes built to ride very long distances over them. Many small builders turned out fine 531 frames that could fit big tires and fenders. My '73 Raleigh Competition is a relatively recent production version of those bikes. (It does have the proprietary Reynolds/Raleigh very narrow chainstays for a very forgiving ride which are probably not the best for someone your size but no one but Raleigh had those tubes so avoiding them is easy. It also handles 35c tires and fenders, quite easily.)
I don't have links for you but the English are known for their clubs and I am sure a web search could find you one that specialized in old road distance bikes and that website might well have a contact you could write. (I googled the English racing sailboat I grew up racing in New England 50 years ago. Still going very strong and the many websites had lots of people to contact. Boats older than mine are still being raced.) Ben |
Find a vintage sport touring bike with 27 inch wheels, they're usually pretty cheap. Most likely you can fit 1 1/4 tires/fenders. If you convert to 700c wheels you'll almost certainly have room for 32's and fenders.
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Also, I find it ironically funny that you are the one in this thread telling me this, not knowing that I have been dreaming for the last four years of finding a good 23" Cannondale touring frame to replace my Surly. I also fantasize that a stripped down Cannondale tourer with nice light wheels and quality 32mm tires might make a fine rando bike. Most say it's too stiff for that. I don't know, I like my Surly well enough except for the fact that it's so heavy. I think the extra long wheelbase makes up for it being stiff framed in a way. Yeah, I had to hold back on recommending the Cannondale ST because the ones I've owned won't fit a 700 X 32 and a fender at the same time. I think you could do 28's with a fender on the mid-late 80's ones, perhaps a 32 with fenders on the 90 and later ones. I can tell you that an ST with a rack makes a fine gravel bike with 32's- I rode this one from DC to Pittsburgh on the C&O Canal path and GAP Trail: http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/y...ps1b0ee7ff.jpg And that one without racks and 25's makes an excellent all-rounder and century/all day bike: http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/y...ps7591834e.jpg Just sold this one, with a 10 double, compact and 28's: http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/y...psjziohopl.jpg I don't think they are too stiff, and I weigh in right around 205 these days. Certainly lighter than your LHT, says my friend who rides on daily. |
I think you could save money by buying or building an old bike, but only if you're smart and are willing to take time, and it could end up being a lot of time, not just building but also for waiting for the right pieces to come along at the right price. It's up to you how to work that tradeoff. I've done it the tinkering way for many years now. I haven't bought a new bike in a very long time with one fairly insignificant exception: I bought a cheap fixed gear bike for fun and short rides. It got stolen before long, so I'm back to nothing but a collection of old bikes.
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don't know budget but at probably high end at $1300 the Rivendell Sam Hillborne would work
https://www.rivbike.com/collections/...2016-framesets https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/14...g?v=1471029893 |
Originally Posted by Lazyass
(Post 19533296)
Find a vintage sport touring bike with 27 inch wheels, they're usually pretty cheap. Most likely you can fit 1 1/4 tires/fenders. If you convert to 700c wheels you'll almost certainly have room for 32's and fenders.
As for stiffness, I guess this is a subjective thing. I can see where someone who is an athletic 220 pounds would need a stiff frame. I'm a fat 220 pounds (5'9") and I'm not sure I've had a frame that wasn't stiff enough. If I have, I didn't notice. :p It may be that the fact that my frames are relatively small (57cm and smaller) helps avoid the stiffness problems. On the other hand, I used to own a Long Haul Trucker and I know exactly what people mean by the "dead" feeling when it isn't loaded. That's the reason I know longer own an LHT. I strongly suspect that's related to the stiffness of the frame as a result of very thick tubes. |
Over at The Paceline there's an All City Mr. Pink for sale for a grand, complete and nicely set up with 10 speed down tube shifters, Paul brakes, etc. It's a 55, which in their sizing might translate to your size. Worth a look, anyway.
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Originally Posted by fender1
(Post 19530134)
I saw when you snagged that, your wife is a lucky lady!
I'm collecting parts as fast as I can and some folks are really stepping up to help me out including a couple of forum members here. I certainly appreciate their efforts. :) |
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