Kind of the point of a motorbike though, pedal less?:rolleyes:

Thanks for sharing this article.

Limited to 26 mph... 80 lbs.... just draft it? I don’t see the issue. there are 25 lb ebikes that look like road bikes, do you pearl clutchers have similar issue with them? You don’t get as nice of a draft

I see very few (none?) comments that want to eliminate or outlaw ebikes. Most of us are okay with ebikes even though some of us have no interest in owning one. All we're asking for is some decorum in the way you ride the darn things.

Corporate has no shame. 20 years from now they're going to claim it's their original term.

To be clear....I have no problem with e-bikes. I just use my bikes for a different reason.

Totally agree.

...depends. Drafting is for people who are too weak to pull. Man up, Larry. :)

I would have zero issue drafting a skilled e-bike rider doing a constant 22 MPH. I sure don’t see issue with team TTS or rotating pace lines either.

And the time it takes to accelerate from something 0 to 20 with a throttle is problematic. Those of us who live in cities where throttle bikes are used for food delivery a lot understand the issues.

Ah, people ... what a better world it would be without them.

here is a thought ... murder is against the law abut people still kill each other. Maybe laws alone aren't the answer?

For that matter, which of us has never rolled a stop sign or exceeded a posted speed limit?

People who will ride dangerously on an e-bike will do it on a skateboard, a pedal bike, in a car, on inline skates ...

As far as more injuries (and anyone who knows anything about statistics would not even bother to laugh at a sample size of 27) if these are people who cannot ride bikes and trying to ride ebikes ... 60 years old and hop-ping on an ebike and suddenly realize they don't have bike-handling skills, so they lock up the brakes, slow too much and fall over, misjudge cornering speeds, hit wet paint on pavement ... and how many were hit by cars? And which parties were at fault? if I get hit by a drunk driver does it matter what sort of vehicle (or non) I am using? ..... and there is no information on the proportion of people riding ebikes or pedal bikes, compared to the numbers who crashed. it could be that 10 million people rode bikes that year and only 82 crashed. We don't know.82 accidents in a year, three times as many pedal bikes ... I could twist thew numbers they way you are trying to do ans d say "Pedal bikes are Three Times as Dangerous as E-Bikes. Science Proves It!!!" But I won't abuse science the way you tried to.

A lot of people just hate e-bikes for no particular reason. Just like a lot of drivers seem to hate cyclists, even if the cyclists strictly obey the laws. But ... I don't want to be that person. I don't want to blame e-bikes for the behavior of a (totally unspecified and possibly totally imaginary) number of people who ride dangerously (I have not seen any, but that is not science, either.)

I also don't want to predict the end of Western civilization (which is itself possibly imaginary and certainly not effective) based on some new technology. Ask the Luddites how well that works.

As a few others have mentioned ... if more people want to use (comparative to cars) slower, smaller vehicles in dedicated lanes ... we All benefit from that. Less pollution, less traffic, and more cycling infrastructure.

The biggest issue I see here is this: You guys. There simply are not that many e-bikes out there, and most of those seem to be operating a mini-motorcycles ... but are not exceptionally faster than a fast cyclist (way faster than me,) and because of the limits of Darwin ... if they get crazy or stupid enough they will die. You can make really stupid mistakes in a car which will leave you crippled or dead on a bike, motorized or not.

Instead of freaking out (just as some here and elsewhere have freaked out about so many other things which are not really existential threats (Like people walking on MUPs ... or people riding bikes faster than a given rider on an MUP ... basically "I do it right and everyone else should be jailed" seems to be the attitude) I will just cope. Are there going to be some irresponsible users ... rather have them on e-bikes than in cars. And some will be rude and selfish .... we haven't managed to change that with regulation. In in fact, "regulation" is only as effective as "enforcement," and if we were willing to pay a lot more taxes to hire more traffic cops ... we would come here complaining when We got ticketed.

it is just life, folks. It is invariably fatal but generally not overly painful unless you fight it.

...now I'm pissed off because I have an electric car, and I have to follow the same burdensome motor vehicle code requirements as all the other cars. :notamused:
And it would be a lot more convenient for me, if I could ride it on the American River trail here, and avoid all the traffic jams on my way down Folsom Blvd.

But thank you for once again reminding me that freedom and blissful ignorance will fix everything. Sometimes I forget that.

I yield to your obvious expertise in the statistical analysis of what could be. Without that, we could be completely lost.

I do not know where you live, but the idea that there are not that many e-bikes out there runs contrary to my experience and eyesight. But hey, I guess all those sales statistics are just imaginary abuse of the numbers, too. Nice chatting with you again.

Agree 💯. Simple rules are best. I'd like to see lanes with a simple 20mph/200lb vehicle limit. Or even 15mph/150lb vehicle limit. That way bikes, ebikes, one wheels, striders, unicycles, tricycles, and others can follow those simple restrictions.

You seem to mischaracterize all concern about e-bikes as pettiness. It is not. I could not care less whether and how much they have to nominally pedal to achieve their >> 20 mph speed. It is a safety concern over at least 3 issues: (1) speed differential compared to others on the same bike paths or bike lanes, (2) mass x speed = momentum, and (3) lack of training; a significant segment of e-bike riders who are inexperienced, untrained, and/or reckless. If the same thing happens on the road with a select few motor vehicles, you would be concerned too.

safety
 

Hopefully some foofer who slides off the couch and on to his 30mph motorbike is going to injure himself before he gets a crack at the rest of us.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d3436ef1d9.png

Please folks keep in mind if it is a throttled vehicle it is not a bicycle, it is a moped. Mopeds have pedals but are basically useless and most people use the throttles. Let's not confuse e-bikes and mopeds it is bad form.

It's amazing that in the midst of a historic rise in road fatalities caused by distracted driving of ever larger SUVs and pickup trucks, we seem to spend more time debating the dangers of an 80lb ebike vs a diesel-spewing dually.

Pedal bikes and motorbikes seems confusing as well.:foo:

A lot of e-assisted bikes which I see in my area have both pedal assist and throttle, plus different modes which allow you to set up how much pedal assist you want.

The only remaining pretense that's gone is pedaling. Lacking an adjustable saddle means it's not meant to be pedaled comfortably for any distance. There are lots of arguments for why pedaling isn't important.

But Trek can either join the trend or be left in the dust.

My brother, who has a gas scooter, asked me why he should get an e-bike. I didn't have a good answer.

Let's clear up the confusion... Cyclists ride bikes while bikers ride motorbikes.

,,,those debates take place more in A+S. And they get equally illogical after the first ten posts. :)

Right ... so how can we get rid of the old ladies out for a post-prandial cruise? And also, the "Strava!" shouting solo riders, and for sure, the pace line- bike-club riders doing 25 mph.

Here is the deal: there is a speed limit in place already, and rules for safe and proper overtaking. There are already speed limits. Riders will or will not follow these rules .... I know i didn't care At All for traffic rules for a long time---I just rode to survive and get ahead. Over time I came to realize that my chances of surviving increased if i was a little more careful.

I assume e-bike riders will learn the same lessons---either the easy or the hard way. And with cycling, e- or otherwise ... people who don't learn get Hurt.

Has anyone here been Hit by an e-biker?
So I should be riding more slowly because I am fat? Some guy who weighs 150 on a 20-lb bike going 40 feet per second (what, 28 mph?) generates 3400 pound-feet? or energy? On the same weight bike at 100 pounds more, am I limited to 22 fps so I don't generate so much momentum? How about on downhills? Should I walk? Again, this is only an issue if there is A.) a ton of traffic on street-side bike lanes (in which case the actual road surface is also a "bike lane") or B.) an MUP where Any rider at Any speed can be a deadly projectile if s/he chooses to behave badly ... but can anyone prove that riding an e-scooter creates some mental condition whereby otherwise normal people became homicidal bike-maniacs?

Otherwise .... there seems to be some e-rider hate. As I have said, I have seen some people---a lot more recently, but not a lot---of people on electric mini-motorcycles. it took me a few occurrences before i shut down the scornful "He's not even pedaling" voice, because after all ... that is the point. I have not seen any being any more dangerous than other riders, and none as dangerous as some drivers.

So ... how long should people have to train before getting the e-bike license? Who is going to train them,? Who is going to pay for the whole new branch of the Motor Vehicle department?

How about this---the existing driver training requirements are a complete joke. If you can answer seven of ten questions you can get a learner's permit which allows you to drive, so long as your 16-year-old licensed friend comes along to "supervise." You can get a full license if you can drive around the block without pitching a fit. Nothing about how to control a skid, how to do a safe emergency stop ... nowadays you don't even have to be able to parallel-park.

And who gets half those licenses? Sixteen year-old boys who use cars to prove their manhood, test their limits, get shots of adrenaline ..... There is a steady stream of lunatic idiots being given licenses constantly, and a lot of them go out and party with their friends are are not just inexperienced, emotionally unbalanced, and irrational ... they are then also intoxicated.

One at least a few instances I can recall, I came head-to-head with someone going the wrong way in the bike lane ... coming head-on at me in a 36-inch lane---and expected me to move. In each case the person was riding a bike. In one case it was a young lady who explained that the lane on the other side of the road was closed due to construction---imagine if a person in a car came head-on at you and said that she felt safer forcing you into traffic rather than facing traffic herself? In another case the rider--also a young lady--explained that she was only a few blocks from home so crossing the street to use the correct lane was not necessary ... again, imagine if this was a driver in a car ....

PEOPLE ON PEDAL BIKES. Not e-bikes, not mopeds ... people commuting on pedal bikes.

So i guess we need to start a thread hating on pedal-bikers who don't know the rules, or don't follow them? Why don't we establish training regimens and licensing requi9rements for pedal bikes?

And if you need a license to ride, then you will need insurance, because what if you hurt someone while riding without a license? And if an uninsured, licensed rider gets hit by an unlicensed rider, the insurance company will want the unlicensed rider to need insurance, so they can sue his insurance company to cover the licensed rider's medical bills.

See how much better this all will be? No one will be allowed to ride on the street, even in a bike lane, or on an MUP until they are 16 and have six weeks of bike training (just a small fee) and then will have to get insurance and register their bikes (just small fees) plus pay to get a license (just a small fee) (and of course these fees will be recurring) and if you own multiple bikes each one will need to be registered (just a small fee) and insured (just a small fee) .... and cops will, a the end of each fiscal period, set up at 4-way stops to nail riders rolling the stop signs at 2 am with no car within miles, just like they set up speed traps nowadays.

Yeah ... that sure sounds like a better world to me.

Or ... we could all take a few deep breaths, recall that we are responding to a purely hypothetical post on an internet forum, and realize that that particular dystopia has not arrived yet and probably never will.

Whatever ... if people like to scare themselves ... they have that option.

Good thing about cycling---the bad ones weed themselves out pretty quickly. No airbags, no second chances.

But even more so ... until i see the actual data proving that e-bike riders are actually doing all that harm ... yeah, the joy of science, eh?

From PubMed. Don't worry, they're probably faking it, too.
 

Maelochs :

Risk Riding Behaviors of Urban E-Bikes: A Literature Review

...you will, of course, again argue that the riders of conventional bicycles also persist in these same risky behaviors. Good luck with that.

Meanwhile, in answer to your question about whether e-bikes are hitting pedestrians in greater numbers than other bikes, I can only point you to this single study:

Injuries associated with electric-powered bikes and scooters: analysis of US consumer product data

I sincerely hope that you will not complain about the paucity of their data set. But it is published in "Injury Prevention", not the "Annals of Freedom in America." So why should anyone care ?

I was especially intrigued by your well reasoned argument involving force, as relative to mass and speed, and how it can't possibly be construed to relate to severity of injury. That's gold, right there, Jerry.

...
........................one of the well known, essential principles of internet discourse on any topic.