Dahon Launch second generation hinge
 

It seems that Dahon has a new version of the Launch hinge. Instead of the serrated engagement teeth that extends all the way to the exterior of the hinge, it is now smooth teeth and is hidden inside.<br /><br /><img src="https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikeforums.net-vbulletin/2000x1563/untitled_1_jpga_fca308f5d1d718e3bfd3d2f3db0414f3ccdfa460.jpg"></img><br /><br /><a href="https://youtu.be/9w23adDuEmM">https://youtu.be/9w23adDuEmM</a>
https:// youtu .be/ 9w23adDuEmM
<br /><br /><a href="https://youtu.be/ibLo7sYruow">https://youtu.be/ibLo7sYruow</a>
https:// youtu .be/ ibLo7sYruow
<br /><br /><a href="https://www.dahon.com.hk/products/dahon-archer-pro-folding-bike-kba005-black-20-jaws-hinge">https://www.dahon.com.hk/products/dahon-archer-pro-folding-bike-kba005-black-20-jaws-hinge</a><br /><br /><a href="https://www.dahon.com.hk/products/dahon-launch-d8-8%E9%80%9F%E7%A2%9F%E5%89%8E%E6%8A%98%E7%96%8A%E8%BB%8A-kba083-8spd%E6%9A%B4%E9%BE%8D%E6%8E%A5%E9%A0%AD">https://www.dahon.com.hk/products/dahon-launch-d8-8%E9%80%9F%E7%A2%9F%E5%89%8E%E6%8A%98%E7%96%8A%E8%BB%8A-kba083-8spd%E6%9A%B4%E9%BE%8D%E6%8E%A5%E9%A0%AD</a><br /><br />There are 2 models, one is called Launch D8 KBA083, and another one is Archer Pro KBA005.<br />There are other Launch models that don't have the "jaws hinge".

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6b21a90fdb.jpg

https:// youtu .be/ 9w23adDuEmM
https:// youtu .be/ ibLo7sYruow

https://www.dahon.com.hk/products/da...8E%A5%E9%A0%AD

https://www.dahon.com.hk/products/da...-20-jaws-hinge

How about actually sharing the video next time,... (the second one I couldn't locate)

Interesting down "tube". There was a manufacturer in the late 80s/early 90s that used cables for the downtube as well based on the idea that a typical downtube operates primarily in tension.

If you look at both of my posts, I did share the video, so I'm not sure what you mean.
There is a bug in the forums that hides the iFrame of youtube videos in the post, and then if you try to edit the post, it inserts the HTML tags.
If you look at my original post, you can see the video URL in between the HTML tags.
If you look at my second post, you can see the video URL clearly with spaces inserted to prevent loading the buggy iFrame.

And how about you actually share the video too? I don't see it in your post.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ec2242f94d.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...695f57c9f9.png
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...59db48b8f2.png
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a1f9c13dc2.png

It was shared by me. Either you're using the controls on top of the comment box incorrectly, using an add blocker, or you're using the wrong format. Otherwise the issue is on your part.

The "Deltec" cable. Dahon claims great things about strength and pedaling efficiency based on testing (results advertised but details not yet made public.)

Bike frames with tension cable members: Dursley-Pedersen, 1890s.

I'm interested to know whether the newer hinge design without the serrated teeth and a recessed edge, has any benefit over the older design, other than ingress of water/dirt.

This is the one I was thinking of, Slingshot
https://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb12526370/p4pb12526370.jpg

It seems like it is hard to beat a welded triangle designed bike.

Let me take a wack at it:



I've got mixed feelings.
Dahon finally has disk brakes, FINALLY upgraded the hinge (which I'll wait until the second iteration).

But that cable....
ugh!
Nothing says "we have no faith in our own frames" than an after thought structural cable.
(possible lawsuit induced?)

I'll likely on my last Dahon, and when it goes.... [not sure yet]

Edit:
Looked at the hinge. Clamp on the bottom and a bolt neat the top. hmmmm... I'd have to see it up close.
At lease the frame is finally strengthened around the hinge.

Edit edit:
Better bottom bracket, more contact surface area for the hinge.
When it folds the cable makes it ugly. (yikes)
The underneath locking mechanism is a welcome change.

Dahon Cadenza, Jetstream, Ios, K, models of the Mu. Last ten years.

Of course in your analysis, going to discs means they have no faith in their rim brakes...

Rim brakes are hot garbage

I'll take disc brakes over rim any day. 👍

[QUOTE

Of course in your analysis, going to discs means they have no faith in their rim brakes...[/QUOTE]

Granted disks provide more power ,it’s also a marketing benefit. Having disk brakes give’s the bike more high end appeal.

A
Disk do offer more braking power but at an additional cost vs v-brakes. The later are still adequate for many situations. The bike industry likes them for the extra profits from disk replacement and bike shop for the maintenance. I have both and well adjusted v brakes with koolstop pads provide very strong braking power. Going down the Alps is another thing…😀

I've never had rim brakes last longer than disc. And in the long term disc are less expensive (in my experience). Rim brakes not only require pad replacement, they also end up needing rims to be replaced. The pads wear away the rims. I'll swap pads/discs anytime. Especially for the added security of stopping power on hills, and during inclement weather riding.

This is their second version of the hinge design. But I think the main difference is only the engagement of the teeth on the "jaws". I think the teeth are now hidden behind a flange to reduce chance of damaging them. I would imagine banging the teeth against something while folded and then they no longer mate.

I would assume most of the bending load still goes to the pin on the left side.
But the jaws reduce the load on the pin by making the connection more stiff.

The problem with the other hinge designs is that the right side was just a single point connection in tension, and flexed like a see-saw.

Is there any updates on the performance of the gen2 hinge.

I'm looking at buying a folding bike.

Deciding between

Dahon Mariner D8 = $800 NZD RRP (500 USD) - older style hinge

Dahon Launch D8 = $1000 NZD RRP (620 USD) - gen 2 jaws hinge

Tern Link C8 = $900 NZD display model (~550 USD)

Unfortunately no one sells the bike in my part of NZ so I have to get it shipped, these are shipped prices.
Thanks for your thoughts.

Yes, someone posted a pic of that above, a poor design. The cable on that one was spring-loaded to provide suspension, which means a pivot point just in front of the seat on the top tube. Based on the diameter of the top tube, that bike will be a wet noodle in torsion while pedaling. The downtube takes a lot of torsion loads when hammering on the pedals.

The Deltec cable on the Dahon is more feasible, because the monobeam frame is much larger in closed section size, so has a bunch of torsional stiffness. The Deltec only reduces the bending moment on everything on the monobeam, including the beam, welds, but most importantly, the hinge. Which is why I improvised a deltech for my Speed from kevlar line, and it really tightened up the hinge, haven't had to adjust the hinge since.

The new Launch also looks like it has a hollowtech II style 2X crank, just like I retrofit to my Speed. These guys can't stop imitating me. EDIT: OH!!!! That's right, the past Launch is just 1X! They really did imitate me. Although I would have used 110 BCD 50/34, looks like that is 130 BCD 52/42.

I'm still figuring out the Launch hinge 2.0, I need to see better views of it open. The previous Launch hinge just tightened vertically. I don't know if this newer one is different in concept.

EDIT: The welds around the hinge are dressed, smoothed out like my vintage Cannondale, vast improvement in aesthetics there. Looks like all other welds as well, that's a big deal, not just looks, it also reduces the stress concentration at the boundaries of welds. OK, looks like Dahon is trying harder.

Only downside I am seeing is still no thru-axle, especially in front, to keep wheel from popping out of dropouts under hard disc braking. They also could have instead, mounted the front caliper on the front of the right fork blade, like on the new Curl.

As noted in my previous post, I think the new Launch is a significant advance over the last, in addition to the new hinge (which I don't know if is better); Front derailleur mount and 2X crank and I think I saw 10 speed rear, so 20 speeds, nicely dressed welds. That blows away the Mariner, for only USD$120 more. If I didn't already have an old Dahon Speed retrofit with a 2X crank, I'd buy one. But I still would like disc brakes. $1000? (current Launch D8 price), no. $620, I might be tempted.

EDIT: In the past, I would not have wanted 10-speed rear, I had preferred 8-speed as more durable, and at one time it was. But now it seems, all 8-speed chains are crap material (either worse than before, or not as good as they needed to develop for 10+ speeds), so 10+ speed chains are more durable, so I would now favor that.

Do you have a link to the new Launch? I'd like to see what it looks like...

I watched the videos linked or posted above, froze at a few points to look closely. The weld areas looked NICE.

Definitely not on Dahon USA's site yet. I've tried to bring up bookmarks I had for other stuff there, like Deltech, and it just defaults to their homepage. Now, I just tried Dahon's international site home page, for a second it flashed a page about Deltech, then instantly defaulted to the USA site. Guess they don't want people looking at Dahon outside their markets.

I need a VPN like russians seeking truth about the war.

EDIT: Even this link, hyped by Dahon as new ("Speed Technology", supposed to be frames more rigid than conventional bikes), I try to pull it up, flashes for a second, then defaults to Dahon USA site home page. Idiots:

https://dahon.com/the-folding-bike-p...and-solutions/

Where I saw the above link, article had this to say:

"Notably, DAHON is poised to launch a new range of aluminum and carbon fiber frames utilizing Speed Technology. These frames boast a 10-20% increase in stiffness compared to traditional road and mountain bike frames."

! Could that frame in the above video be carbon, and not aluminum with dressed welds?! Video is an east Asian language so I could not understand a word.

More info regarding my edits above, both aluminum and carbon are confirmed:

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/anno...ycle-show-2024

Commenting on that article... rigid is not always better. Usually you want frames rigid in torsion, but some flex in longitudinal bending for a decent ride. But also, the head guy at Bicycle Quarterly has opined that he prefers a frame matched to the rider weight and style, not completely rigid, but having just the right spring to it in pedaling. I have not experienced what he is talking about, but he's a hard-core biker, and samples among the best bikes on the market, so I don't discount what he says.

Just found image, same as in video above, labeled "Archer" and not Launch, perhaps just for foreign market. Notice smooth tube joints, either aluminum and dressed welds, or carbon fiber. Fat seatstays and chainstays near rear dropouts, say carbon to me, but by no means certain. Metal seatstays in past were noticeably tapered.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...893e5e0d72.png

Better image, I think it's still welded aluminum. Numbers a bit fuzzy, but I think 56/46 chanrings on 5x130mm BCD crank, hollowtech II style. Ooo, notice change in seatstays, curved here, straight above. DOH! Nevermind, this is old style frame hinge:
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b84028e997.png

These are all international bikes that Dahon has no interest in releasing in North America. The Archer has been available for quite a while. We're a neglected continent... :cry:

I believe you. Some of that would make sense, some not. The same bike sold in the USA is higher priced, both for the market, and to price in USA liability, I think, the latter may push the retail price too high. On the other hand, they have aniversary editions that are ridiculously priced, so I think that obviates that argument. The fact is, with the design and tooling already paid for, it makes no sense to not sell a model here, especially if only differing in accessories and not frame design. Selling only a Launch D8 doesn't make sense when they could be selling a D16/18/20 with a 2X crank. The fact that 2X is selling overseas means they understand that megarange 1X is not perfect for all applications, especially 20". The old Formula 16 (2X, discs) didn't sell here because it was 3X the price of a Speed. Same for the TR, although I didn't buy that also because I didn't want IGH. I could see Dahon going up-market in response to competition from Zizzo, Origami, et al, and that Archer looks it, and can succeed in the USA if not ridiculously priced. However, folders may be selling better in countries where mass-transit is far more used than in the USA, folders are really only needed for multi-mode, travel, or stashing under a desk if commuting. Someone on here said the folder market is stagnant, since e-bikes took off.

It probably doesn't matter for me, as my old Speed D7 is serving me well in 14 speed trim, full racks and panniers, thus I like what may be additional fatigue strength of chrome-moly steel over aluminum. I think the only reason I would pop for a new bike would be for disc brakes, as something like an Origami disc bike may not be that much more money than swapping my 74mm fork for a 100mm one with disc mounts, and a new disc-equipped front wheel, caliper, and lever. I could get by with only a disc on the front.

It'll be interesting to see what Dahon does.

On that Archer, the smoothed welds, has Dahon been doing that for several years, or is that new for 2024?

Yeap. I am slowly transitioning to steel on folders. My FSIR Spin 5 may be my last Al-alloy folder.

Modern hydraulic disc brakes are nice, but they are more expensive, heavier and require beefier wheels. You, of course, know this, but as much as I like disc, I don't forget those three negative factors. I can easily lock the wheels with rim brakes on my 20" and 16" wheel bikes.

I was fine for rim brakes for many decades, on flat land, and in hilly regions but not running the big hills. But in recent years, I do the hills because the climbing while standing is good workout for my stomach muscles (I'm overweight, need to loose stomach fat), in addition to aerobic. (I always used to spin up hills in lowest gear, easy on my knees, only in recent years have I learned to climb out of the saddle, high force, but my legs being straighter, no knee problems.) But that means going down those hills, I have enough braking power with rim brakes (barely*) but man it heats up those little 20" rims, occasionally I've popped a spoke due to rim expansion; Back in my road-race bike days, I'd fly down those hills, but these days I try to go a bit slower, especially the more twitchy steering on 20", and there are curves. Pannier weight forward of the steer axis has calmed the steering. Also, the rims are almost shot, concaved sidewalls, about 10 years life, not bad, but otherwise the wheel is fine.

* I can't lock the wheels on pavement; The aluminum rims polish really smooth, and the brake pads can glaze, I use cartridge pads so can easily slide out, poke out any tiny aluminum bits, clean and file the surface, put back.

Discs would be nice.

Are you moving toward steel for better ride (steel allows more flex), or because you had a fatigue failure with an aluminum frame? Bike Friday, Brompton, Surley, et al, are still committed to 4130 chrome moly steel, but it's getting to be harder to find that. Although I think in recent decades, there has been a resurgence in steel frames. I know it was touted for world-touring folks, not just for durability, but ability to be repaired in third world nations, but I would guess that aluminum welding has also become more common, at least if they have electricity and not just limited to gas-welding. My Cannondale was a "premium" aluminum frame 35 years ago; Now, some of the cheapest bikes are all aluminum frames.