Does 1mm really matter?
Hi fellow C&V viewers, I am refurbishing my lovely old '74 Araya and have a couple of questions for which any input would be gratefully received:
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ab583345fb.jpg Has this front derailleur had it? https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e3d9382cc2.jpg Or the rear one? https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b8ba9646fc.jpg Really? |
4mm cable end caps:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/122884424525 (you have to select either 4mm or 5mm with the drop down box) |
Thank you!
Hi Icemilkcoffee, thank you so much! I immediately ordered a couple of packets. And this was after an extended search, using all the search term variations I could think of - but still didn't find them. For others like me, here's what he directed me to:
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fa52d6336f.jpg |
I don't think you should give up on those Suntour mechs yet- they're pretty bulletproof and shouldn't be giving you so much trouble. That FD is 'high normal', which means the spring want's to pull it to the large ring- you know that, right? (sorry, no intention of being condescending- just checking) Are you losing the chain to the inside, when shifting from big to small, or to the outside when going from small to big ring? Give us some more info, maybe we can collectively get you sorted out!
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FD passes at least the eye test. Random ideas:
- From the marks on the seat-tube, it appears to have been installed differently in the past. Are you sure installation is correct? (a) clearance directly above big ring, (b) cage angle. - Lubricate all derailleur hinges (check movement by hand once cables are disconnected). - Incorrect or worn chain? Good luck, love those components. |
Originally Posted by Albion
(Post 22779826)
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ab583345fb.jpg
Has this front derailleur had it? |
I would also say the suntour mech is good stuff.
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Hi Echoplex, I really appreciate your input. The chain tends to come off more usually when moving to the larger front chainring with the chain dropping onto the crank arm (urgh). There is one difference I have noted, compared with my '80 Fuji, and it's the rear derailleur tension - when rotating the cage plate near the idler pulley the twisting force required is about half (I have just ordered a spring scale to check more exactly). Might there simply not be enough tension in the chain to keep it seated on the front chainring? If so, it's within my ability to take the rear changer apart and increase the tension by half a turn (say).
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I'm not familiar with that front derailleur but it looks like the linkage is out of sorts.
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Originally Posted by Albion
(Post 22779908)
Hi Echoplex, I really appreciate your input. The chain tends to come off more usually when moving to the larger front chainring with the chain dropping onto the crank arm (urgh). There is one difference I have noted, compared with my '80 Fuji, and it's the rear derailleur tension - when rotating the cage plate near the idler pulley the twisting force required is about half (I have just ordered a spring scale to check more exactly). Might there simply not be enough tension in the chain to keep it seated on the front chainring? If so, it's within my ability to take the rear changer apart and increase the tension by half a turn (say).
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I think the V-Compe FD is actually alloy body with a steel cage. Maybe not high-end, but decently regarded- though the high-normal takes getting used to, and some folks don't like it. Albion , you might want to start a new thread specifically to get the FD issue sorted out- there's tremendous knowledge here, but this thread title may not get the eyeballs you need to solve this. Also, a straight on photo of the FD & crankset (and also of the whole drivetrain) might be helpful. I think it takes quite a lot of use/abuse to render old Suntour mechs unusable- I'd be really surprised if, with some effort, you can't get this one working properly.
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I think that fd has a cable stop. The housing is one more spot that may need lubricant.
Some of those old systems would use a lot of overhift and trim back into place. The last times I've had those cranks I had chain suck in between the chainrings. Nice solid rings but the spacing is more than most all, they take a lot of fd movement for shifting ups or downs. |
I am very interested in the Araya bicycles. Would you be willing to share some more photos and information about your Araya? Would love to know the model, frame material, which bike shop from which it came etc. Thanks, Mark
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Increase chain tension with "b" limiter screw on rear derailleur.
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Originally Posted by CroMo Mike
(Post 22779983)
I'm not familiar with that front derailleur but it looks like the linkage is out of sorts.
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I should mention that it is not at all unusual or incorrect to slightly bend the inside plate of the front derailleur to assist it lifting the chain to the large chainring. If you bend it ever so slightly inward, you may be able to back off the outboard adjustment screw. We did that routinely when I was a mechanic in the shops in the early 70's and 80's.. By the way, I always use a Crescent wrench to make the gentle bend.
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Originally Posted by Mr. 66
(Post 22780293)
I think that fd has a cable stop. The housing is one more spot that may need lubricant.
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Great suggestions, the old front derailers thankfully have a good length of forward protrusion where the tips of the cage can be bent inward to better control a narrow chain (these were designed for use with 8mm wide chain!).
The Suntour V-GT rear derailer features adjustable cage pivot tension! One has to unscrew the stopper pin on the cage with a screwdriver, then unwind the cage enough to reposition the end of the spring one position tighter (under the big/heavy chrome cap with a 6mm hex socket in it). Then you re-secure the cap, wind the cage back up, and reinstall the stop pin (add grease while you're in there). If you tighten the B-tension screw to effect greater chain tension, the shifting will become sadly unresponsive, and may increase the risk of throwing the chain into the spokes. Remember that these derailers were designed for laterally-stiff bushing-type chains, so the shifting response is already challenged just by using modern chain (which are much more flexible than even the bushingless Sedisport chain). I really prefer using index-shift cable housing for ALL rear derailer use. It really improves responsiveness, especially with friction shifters! A supply-chain problem arises though when a 4x5mm ferrule (not 4x6mm) is needed to fit modern 4mm shift housing and still fit into the narrower ~5mm housing stops on old frames (and even on old stem shifters and rear derailers). Shift cable housing really always needs to be well-captured by a ferrule, or by a deep, squared-bottom, 4mm port in the component. But brake cable housing can be run without any ferrule if it simply fits ok in whatever stop that it rests against. I occasionally find 4x5mm metal ferrules, my Schwinns needed them, don't know where to find more though. A stepped ferrule is often the next-best answer, each situation is different, these differences are sadly not the best feature of old bikes! |
Originally Posted by CroMo Mike View Post
I'm not familiar with that front derailleur but it looks like the linkage is out of sorts.
Originally Posted by smd4
(Post 22780340)
How so?
Image from Velobase: https://velobase.com/CompImages/FDer...6ADABCD87.jpeg |
Originally Posted by CroMo Mike
(Post 22780986)
Originally Posted by CroMo Mike View Post
I'm not familiar with that front derailleur but it looks like the linkage is out of sorts. It looks like the upper and lower pivot arms are out of their "bearings" in the clamping body (moved rearward) and the limit screws are therefore not contacting their spots on the pivoting part of the upper pivot arm? Image from Velobase: https://velobase.com/CompImages/FDer...6ADABCD87.jpeg Yeah, it might be tweaked. |
Nothing wrong with your front derailleur that can be seen by the pics, just find someone to set the limiter screws correctly. They're the 2 little screws on top. I have the same setup on one of my older bikes and let me tell you, those old Suntours are bullet proof. Good luck
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Here's his derailleur. Note that the limit screws hit the shaft, not the arm.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ab583345fb.jpg |
Originally Posted by CroMo Mike
(Post 22781021)
Here's his derailleur. Note that the limit screws hit the shaft, not the arm.
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Yeah, I think that’s the molded in stop. Here’s a pic of the SL on one of my bikes (I think the only real dif is the cage is alloy on the SL)-
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4ea85cfe6.jpeg I suspect the mech wouldn’t function at all if the arms were slid back on the shaft.. |
Araya
Originally Posted by Maohaus
(Post 22780329)
I am very interested in the Araya bicycles. Would you be willing to share some more photos and information about your Araya? Would love to know the model, frame material, which bike shop from which it came etc. Thanks, Mark
The BB shows C432754, nothing on the dropouts. Hummer advised, as part of a discussion with the learned T-Mar: “The serial number on your Araya is an Araya serial number, not Bridgestone. In 1977 Araya started to put an ‘ARY’ prefix on their serial numbers. Araya frames built prior to that had serial numbers without the prefix. The letter "C" at the start of the serial number is for the month of frame manufacture, C = March. The first digit "4" is for the year of frame manufacture, 4 = 1974.” T-Mar also provided date information on the rear derailleur: ". . . the date code (on the RD) is QB, which represents, February 1974, which should make the frame a 1974 model." I hope this is of interest! https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...439f7dc78a.jpg Nothing special but fits like a glove . . . https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5c2d6ef2f1.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1aeadaa760.jpg Basic frame work . . . |
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