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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

Lazyass 03-30-18 01:24 PM

Ended up ordering the Vredestein Freccia Tricomp 23's. Bought three for $125. They have latex tubes but should be pretty supple and durable. Seems like a good everyday tire that isn't too heavy.

Lazyass 04-02-18 10:19 AM

Already received my Vredestein's and, holy cow, they must be the easiest tubulars in history to mount. Need no prestretching at all.

79pmooney 04-02-18 10:37 AM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 20251763)
Yup. Crazy and confusing, not wrong. But no one is confused if I say "700c tubulars"


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YV...=w1046-h588-no

28" diameter, 27mm wide... get used to it.

I probably will always think "700c" as in the rim braking diameter and stressing that these wheels are interchangeable with 700c clinchers. I can live with being corrected for the next 20 years.

Scott, those orange tires remind me of one of my big racing scares. My first "real" race, the 1976 Maine International. 105 miles, 110 starters, pouring rain. My tires were orange treaded Vittoria ribbed tread cotton training tires. Fun tires. Fast for their weight and cost. So the race was rather uneventful for the first 4 hours outside of being the wettest experience this body (and any bike I have ever ridden) has ever seen. Final miles, hills are done and the pace is picking up. We are using all of the right lanes of a divided road; the median being gently cobbles and about an inch below the pavement surface. I am on the left side of the road, next to that median. Somebody gets his rear wheel too close to me and I ride off onto the median. I'm immediately on a mild jackhammer. Look to get back onto the roadway and remember I am riding those orange tread tires. Slippery when wet! And I am going to have to climb that inch or so back on the pavement on those tires. Pushing off from slippery cobbles!

I waited until there was a little room up on the road and went for it. Tires climbed up, no problem. Took much longer to get my heart out of my mouth.

Ben

DiabloScott 04-02-18 11:05 AM


Originally Posted by 79pmooney (Post 20259329)
Scott, those orange tires remind me of one of my big racing scares. My first "real" race, the 1976 Maine International. 105 miles, 110 starters, pouring rain. My tires were orange treaded Vittoria ribbed tread cotton training tires. Fun tires. Fast for their weight and cost. Slippery when wet!

Those orange Michelins came on a used wheelset I bought on eBay - I only ever used them as spares - makes it easy to remember you're riding a spare when it's orange... easy to remember you need to glue on a replacement and tuck the spare back under the saddle.

I remember some old sewups we used to call RedHeads... I think they were Clement - and they had the reputation of ... not being good on wet surfaces. I don't know why it is, but Continental Sprinters used to come in orange and they were fine in the rain. Not as good as my Pave's though... I just love those 27mm green guys.

Ghrumpy 04-02-18 03:53 PM


Originally Posted by 79pmooney (Post 20259329)
I probably will always think "700c" as in the rim braking diameter and stressing that these wheels are interchangeable with 700c clinchers. I can live with being corrected for the next 20 years.

If all you want to remember is that it interchanges with a tubular, then sure, that works. But you could call it anything ("Eddy size" for example) and it would still work. The term "700C" gives you no absolute or even particularly meaningful numbers to work from or towards. Of course it is also true that 28" means nothing more in terms of modern tubular sizing. It's just that, as I said, that's been the nominal size since the 1890s.

When you understand where the 700C term and dimensions come from, then you realize that that designation has no particular connection with the rim size. And you can't work backwards from that number to get to the rim's size even if you know what C means. (OTOH, if you know the British system it's based on, you can derive the rim size easily.)

It seems no more difficult to me to remember that road/track 28" is equivalent to 700C than it is to remember that 24" = 622mm, or even that 29er is the same mountain bike size (and frankly closer to the original tire size than current road tires are.) So why not be correct?

RobbieTunes 04-02-18 07:05 PM

Um.....
 
Vise the drill. Works better.


Originally Posted by Peugeotlover (Post 20244041)
When you start thinking about it, there is a very quick way to get the old glue off.
If the have a vice to hold the wheel, it is even quicker (place wheel between cushioning agents- like rags or styrofoam or wood strips, etc).
Wear heavy gloves so you don't rip apart your hands.
You can get the wheel looking like new in 10 minutes.


crank_addict 04-02-18 09:23 PM

Panaracer Practice / width 22's tan-black

I'll find out soon as already have a bulk qty. inbound but whats the real experience one can expect?

Got them so absurd cheap with the goal to use on very limited use bikes. Though I feel might be short changing the tubular 'greatness' of ride and performance. Tufo S33 pro / butyl's get the job done for consistency and budget ride. Hoping the Panaracer Practice is a step towards a better rider than stiff sidewalled Tufo. Being they were so low cost, I really don't care if they are less puncture prone.

Lazyass 04-03-18 03:24 AM

I was going to buy some Tufo sealant to carry in my jersey pocket because I liked that it came with a valve core remover. Then I somehow came across a link where I learned that a chain tool will remove it. So I tried it with chainbreaker on my Crankbros multi tool and it fits perfect. 30 years on the road and I never knew that. So I bought a little bottle of Stan's way cheaper.

smontanaro 04-03-18 03:31 AM

4.5mm ignition wrench always worked for me. I have a huge stash of ignition wrenches (inch sizes inherited from my dad, metric stuff accumulated over the years) and no longer work on cars, so that particular wrench has been highlighted with a fuscia magic marker so I can readily find it when I need to top up the Stans. (Hmmm... I no longer work on cars. Still, if we're putting this stuff in our tires and tubes, shouldn't valve cores have built-in dipsticks so we can measure the fluid level?)

bentaxle 04-03-18 12:29 PM


Originally Posted by Lazyass (Post 20260966)
I was going to buy some Tufo sealant to carry in my jersey pocket because I liked that it came with a valve core remover. Then I somehow came across a link where I learned that a chain tool will remove it. So I tried it with chainbreaker on my Crankbros multi tool and it fits perfect. 30 years on the road and I never knew that. So I bought a little bottle of Stan's way cheaper.

I think Stan's is better sealant as well. It seems to handle punctures better and lasts longer, too.

On a separate but related note, there are those punctures that are just a bit too big for the sealant to work. Of course, sealant won't work with a true gash. But a slightly too big hole will pump up most of the way, and then blow out sealant when you finally get to the pressure you want. I've tried "plugging" such a hole by using a thin rubber band, stuffing the cut end of the rubber band through the puncture with a tooth pick. With a few millimeters of rubber band inside and outside of the tire, the plug can now allow the tire to be pumped up to pressure.

Of course, I've also pushed my luck and have had the "plug" blown out when I get up to full pressure. But it's something I try before throwing away a Tufo tire that still has a lot of tread, but happened to get a small puncture that is just a bit too big for Stan's sealant.

Lazyass 04-03-18 01:50 PM


Originally Posted by bentaxle (Post 20261941)
I think Stan's is better sealant as well. It seems to handle punctures better and lasts longer, too.

On a separate but related note, there are those punctures that are just a bit too big for the sealant to work. Of course, sealant won't work with a true gash. But a slightly too big hole will pump up most of the way, and then blow out sealant when you finally get to the pressure you want. I've tried "plugging" such a hole by using a thin rubber band, stuffing the cut end of the rubber band through the puncture with a tooth pick. With a few millimeters of rubber band inside and outside of the tire, the plug can now allow the tire to be pumped up to pressure.

Of course, I've also pushed my luck and have had the "plug" blown out when I get up to full pressure. But it's something I try before throwing away a Tufo tire that still has a lot of tread, but happened to get a small puncture that is just a bit too big for Stan's sealant.

I'm not too worried. My last flat tire was four years ago, and I ride 5-6 days a week on average. I live in the country with little traffic so my roads are pretty clean. Back home in DFW I would puncture on almost a weekly basis. I carry a spare tubular so I don't even really need the sealant. But I'll carry it along if it doesn't make my jersey sag too much in the back.

daviddavieboy 04-04-18 07:13 AM


Originally Posted by bentaxle (Post 20261941)
I think Stan's is better sealant as well. It seems to handle punctures better and lasts longer, too. On a separate but related note, there are those punctures that are just a bit too big for the sealant to work. Of course, sealant won't work with a true gash. But a slightly too big hole will pump up most of the way, and then blow out sealant when you finally get to the pressure you want. I've tried "plugging" such a hole by using a thin rubber band, stuffing the cut end of the rubber band through the puncture with a tooth pick. With a few millimeters of rubber band inside and outside of the tire, the plug can now allow the tire to be pumped up to pressure.


I did my first commute yesterday this year and I knew I was in trouble from the start. Just before I left to go home, I noticed that I forgot to bring a spare. Then when I was checking the air I must have twisted the valve extension and it came off (I must have overtightened it when installed and it cracked at the threads). Then on the way home I got a flat about 5 miles from home and had to call the missus for a lift. I ran over something that took a chunk out of the tread that I am sure no sealant would have helped. On a bad note the tire was brand new but at least they were cheap.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/890/4...c310254e_c.jpg
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/792/4...d422ef98_c.jpg

Lazyass 04-04-18 08:40 AM

Carrying no spare tubular is like riding a clincher with no spare tube or patch kit.

jimmuller 04-04-18 09:11 AM


Originally Posted by Lazyass (Post 20263754)
Carrying no spare tubular is like riding a clincher with no spare tube or patch kit.

Ayup. I like to carry two spares if I'm going any great distance. Otherwise if I'm carrying only one and get a flat I have to worry as hard as I can so as not to get another.

Ghrumpy 04-04-18 11:02 AM


Originally Posted by bentaxle (Post 20261941)
I think Stan's is better sealant as well. It seems to handle punctures better and lasts longer, too.

On a separate but related note, there are those punctures that are just a bit too big for the sealant to work. Of course, sealant won't work with a true gash. But a slightly too big hole will pump up most of the way, and then blow out sealant when you finally get to the pressure you want. I've tried "plugging" such a hole by using a thin rubber band, stuffing the cut end of the rubber band through the puncture with a tooth pick. With a few millimeters of rubber band inside and outside of the tire, the plug can now allow the tire to be pumped up to pressure.

Of course, I've also pushed my luck and have had the "plug" blown out when I get up to full pressure. But it's something I try before throwing away a Tufo tire that still has a lot of tread, but happened to get a small puncture that is just a bit too big for Stan's sealant.

This is EXACTLY how single-tube tires were repaired BITD (well, one way.) Of course they didn't have a separate inner tube. But there were little rubber-band stretching and insertion tools made for this job. A dab of rubber cement, insert rubber band, release tension and remove tool. Having the band under tension lets the part inside the tube/tire "mushroom" a little to help keep it in place. Sealant and rubber cement won't really work together. But the sealant itself will probably seal better with the plug than without.

Not as often today, but inner tubes used to come bound with a little rubber band, made from the same black butyl as the tube itself (probably recycled ends from trimming before joining them.) That would make a perfect band for such repairs. But you might have to make your own now from a non-repairable tube. (If you want to use rubber cement, remove the internal talc and external mold-release wax completely before using or it won't stick at all.)

RobbieTunes 04-04-18 05:22 PM

The Practice won't wear like a Tufo, of course, but it rides a heck of a lot better.

The Tufo has about a 5 psi "range" of being comfortable. On either side of that 5 psi range is too little, feels soft, and too much, feels hard as a rock, and gets worse as you raise psi.

Originally Posted by crank_addict (Post 20260732)
Panaracer Practice / width 22's tan-black

I'll find out soon as already have a bulk qty. inbound but whats the real experience one can expect?

Got them so absurd cheap with the goal to use on very limited use bikes. Though I feel might be short changing the tubular 'greatness' of ride and performance. Tufo S33 pro / butyl's get the job done for consistency and budget ride. Hoping the Panaracer Practice is a step towards a better rider than stiff sidewalled Tufo. Being they were so low cost, I really don't care if they are less puncture prone.


Steve Whitlatch 04-04-18 09:19 PM

I glued on some new Continental Sprinter Gatorskin tires I picked up. Waiting for some decent weather to try them out. I have seen mixed reviews. I hope they are decent? I got a really good deal on the pair. I will find out soon enough. Anyone here ever use them?

smontanaro 04-05-18 05:13 AM


Originally Posted by Steve Whitlatch (Post 20265479)
Waiting for some decent weather to try them out.

We have been suffering with a dearth of good weather. Been out a few times, but temps in the 20s and wind speeds in the teens are kind of discouraging.

My first tubular tires were Gatorskins. In retrospect, they didn't ride nearly as nice as other available options, and at least for me they were "
Gatorskins" in name only. (I'd used the original clincher of that name for several years with good result.)

Never went back. I have Vittoria Rally tires (25mm) on my PX-10, and while I wouldn't call the ride "sublime", they are certainly better than the Gatorskins.

Wileyone 04-05-18 05:29 AM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 20265754)
We have been suffering with a dearth of good weather. Been out a few times, but temps in the 20s and wind speeds in the teens are kind of discouraging.

My first tubular tires were Gatorskins. In retrospect, they didn't ride nearly as nice as other available options, and at least for me they were "
Gatorskins" in name only. (I'd used the original clincher of that name for several years with good result.)

Never went back. I have Vittoria Rally tires (25mm) on my PX-10, and while I wouldn't call the ride "sublime", they are certainly better than the Gatorskins.

I too had the same experience with Gatorskins. I found the ride a little on the harsh side compared to the Vittoria G+ or the Schwalbe 1's.
I don't usually like Blackwalls but bought a set of Michelin Pro 4's at a bargain price and they have surprized me at how good they are.

bentaxle 04-05-18 07:44 AM


Originally Posted by Ghrumpy (Post 20264082)
This is EXACTLY how single-tube tires were repaired BITD (well, one way.) Of course they didn't have a separate inner tube. But there were little rubber-band stretching and insertion tools made for this job. A dab of rubber cement, insert rubber band, release tension and remove tool. Having the band under tension lets the part inside the tube/tire "mushroom" a little to help keep it in place. Sealant and rubber cement won't really work together. But the sealant itself will probably seal better with the plug than without.

Not as often today, but inner tubes used to come bound with a little rubber band, made from the same black butyl as the tube itself (probably recycled ends from trimming before joining them.) That would make a perfect band for such repairs. But you might have to make your own now from a non-repairable tube. (If you want to use rubber cement, remove the internal talc and external mold-release wax completely before using or it won't stick at all.)

Agree completely. If you don't have sealant involved, rubber cement is probably the better glue to use for plugging. But if you're already set up with sealant, the plug and sealant can work with borderline punctures that are just a bit too big for sealant on its own. And your comment about the black butyl rubber bands that come with new tires is a good observation. In fact, cutting a little plug from an old tire (i.e. your comment about "make your own") and making sure it is clean is also a good suggestion!


Originally Posted by RobbieTunes (Post 20265013)
The Practice won't wear like a Tufo, of course, but it rides a heck of a lot better.

The Tufo has about a 5 psi "range" of being comfortable. On either side of that 5 psi range is too little, feels soft, and too much, feels hard as a rock, and gets worse as you raise psi.

Yes, Tufo last well, but aren't the best ride. But I agree if you get the pressure right, they are pretty reasonable, and thus the good wear and reasonable price make it a good "training tire". But I will agree that getting the pressure figured out is important or one may be disappointed.

And, regarding plugging them, as Ghrumpy points out, the Tufo tires have no "inner tube". It is a single wall, so you can't patch, and thus need to use sealant and maybe plugs to deal with small punctures.


Originally Posted by daviddavieboy (Post 20263564)
I am sure no sealant would have helped.

Precisely! And with a Tufo tire, you are done when you have a puncture like that!!!

Steve Whitlatch 04-07-18 06:11 PM

[MENTION=389973]Wileyone[/MENTION] ,
Got the bike out today for a shakedown ride. I agree the Gatorskins are not as nice of a ride as my Vittoria Corsa CX tires but at less than half the price I really did not expect them to be. The Gatorskins rolled smooth and fast and really felt like they gripped well. I am just glad they did not feel sluggish and heavy. I had Gatorskin clinchers before and they really felt heavy and slow. I am happy with them for what they are. I only paid $50 for the set, new.

Wileyone 04-07-18 06:39 PM

Well at $50 a set you can't go wrong. Where did you find them so cheap?

Steve Whitlatch 04-07-18 07:03 PM


Originally Posted by Wileyone (Post 20271005)
Well at $50 a set you can't go wrong. Where did you find them so cheap?

I paid $5 for one at the Madison Swap, got its mate on eBay for $44. :)

RobbieTunes 04-07-18 07:46 PM


Originally Posted by Steve Whitlatch (Post 20271019)
I paid $5 for one at the Madison Swap, got its mate on eBay for $44. :)

Like dating sisters.

Steve Whitlatch 04-07-18 07:59 PM


Originally Posted by RobbieTunes (Post 20271072)
Like dating sisters.

I bet that would cost more than $50? :innocent:


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