Very slight play in rear hub = acceptable
 

I repacked the hubs on all my bikes (part of my spring maintenance routine) and after reinstalling the rear wheel on my road bike (Shimano 105 hubs) I was able to detect a very slight amount of play in the hub. I'm talking the amount you have to recheck a couple of times to assure yourself it is actually there. The skewer is closed and appropriately tight. Is a tiny amount of play in the rear hub acceptable, or should I disassemble and readjust? Normally I'm pretty OCD but this is such a tiny amount that I could not detect it with the wheel off the bike. The wheel spins true and smooth.

It's not the work of redoing it, I'm just curious as to if there is any reason to redo it.

.5mm at rim is OK, but 1/4 turn on the outside cone will fix it.

Thanks for the reply. With the wheel on the bike, on the stand, when I hold the seat stay and rock the rim back and forth, the play is barely perceptible by feel.

Yeah, it wouldn't take much to fix, and I probably will do that. I was just wondering if it really matters for such a tiny amount of play.

Probably fine but I try to set mine up so I feel that play with the qr about 60% closed. Then when I close it the rest of the way it takes the play out.

It's a quick fix. Just grab your cone wrenches.

I'd just crank down on the QR a bit more.

If the play is only .5 mm at the rim, a 1/4 turn at the cone will probably ruin the bearings. I find I have to adjust the cone and locknuts in only low single digit degree increments to refine the bearing play.

Bring it by & I'll Have a Look.

Not really. Shimano axles are 10x1mm, so 1/4 turn = .25mm (0.01") of adjustment. If it's already loose, there's no way that's going to make it tight enough to ruin anything.

With a top quality Campy or Dura Ace hub, you might want to go 1/8 turn to dial something in perfectly.

I understand the thread pitch and linear travel relationship but my point is the final adjustments are done in 0.1 mm or less increments to get it right. The OP's hub isn't really "loose" if the movement at the rim is that small. If the axle itself moved that much, yeah there is need for a more gross adjustment.

Close enough may be good enough if you are working in a rush but we aren't.

On the subject of Campy hubs, they are adjusted with the wheel firmly clamped in the dropouts so getting to the point of exactly zero rim play, but not tighter, is very easy. Shimano hubs require a bit more finesse and "Kentucky windage" to get exactly right.

Thanks everyone.

The point I was trying to get at was is there a downside to leaving that tiny amount of play? Will it cause any damage or problems over the next 1,000 miles or so before I check the hubs again?

Agreed that the final adjustments are very small, a couple of degrees with the cone wrench. I like HillRider's analogy to Kentucky Windage and that is what happened, I was getting close and undershot on getting out that last bit of play. I can easily correct it but was more interested in what would happen, if anything, if I left it until the next time. My wheels get serviced each spring and checked again about mid-season.

Wheel Bearing adjustment by Jobst BrandtThere is a chance of damage. There should be a small amount of preload when the wheel is installed.

Play is bad. It willeventually score the cups races because with a loose adjustment all the weight on the wheel is concentrated on a couple of bearings. With a properly adjusted bearing all the weight is equally distributed over all the bearings.

Back in the day i used to see destroyed campy cones and rsces because the racer boys who were obcessed with minimising friction set their bearings loose thinking it would make a difference.

Both outside cones; just a small tweak inward and you should be good...

What I have found to often be the case is that there may exist a tad of play at one spot in the rotation, say with the valve stem at 12 o'clock for example, but there may be no discernible play when the valve is at 3 or 6 or 9 o'clock. When I encounter this, I leave well enough alone, as removing the play at one position may result in a bit of a tight situation at another location in the revolution of the wheel.............

Not really

THAT is exactly my experience today,
TINY amount of play when wheel is in rotation. I noticed that the axle is VERY slightly bent, and wondering if that's the cause.
Left the tiny play in because when taking it out, the bearings began to "groan".

This^^^^^

1/4 turn is a huge adjustment.

1/4 turn is WAY too much for what the OP describes. I did a series of experiments once on the effect of tightening quick releases vs. cone adjustments and what the OP describes would be removed by 1/32 (one spoke hole) turn of the cone. As ot the question, this amount of play at the rim is not going to cause damage or increase wear. Better to have a little play than have binding as the hub rotates against the axle.

Internet is always full of different opinions - here's my 2c:

If a hub is not pitted/damaged, I always set it to zero play.
Testing when the quick release is tightened, of course - for hubs with a quick-release mechanism.
I use two old spacers to tighten against them, so I don't have to re-mount the whole wheel then fine-tuning the preload.

Never had any problems or premature wear that way - hubs last over a decade if regularly serviced.

The thing is - 1/16 of a turn of the nuts is used to eliminate any play. Looking for that spot when the play is just gone, without any extra preload "on top" of that.
Yes, many hubs have a spot in their rotation where the play just exists - even when the axle looks perfectly straight when rolling it over a flat surface.
Even with those, I aim for zero play even on that "just one spot of the whole rotation."

A little bit of play is better than too much preload, definitely.
Still, I'd say that zero play (without too much preload) is better than a bit of play.

Just in case - to state the obvious:
When the wheel is mounted, the rim might move a bit as it flexes, but the play is noticed as completely free movement, without any resistance, then you feel it "hit" and afterwards, any extra movement is just flexing. Not sure if I've explained it properly (or whether it needs explaining in the first place :) ).

A long, detailed, boring and tedious demonstration of how I've been doing it over the years - any corrections are welcome:

There will never be a consensus to your question. For everyone who leaves no play and 30 years later the hubs are perfect, there will be someone who leaves a slight amount and 30 years later the hubs are perfect.

It is ironic that no one has ever developed a tool to measure pre-load on cup/cone adjustments. I’m of the opinion that good quality hubs operate at low enough ranges of stress and heat that it is probably moot as long as it is not too tight or too loose.

My personal preference is to adjust so there is a skosh amount that disappears, or not perceivable, when the skewer is tighten. It also makes the most sense to me. It has prevented the bike from swerving to far to the right or to the left.

John

+1 OP, the tiny play you've got isn't going to hurt anything. Probably get slowly worse over time. When it bugs you, tighten the cones a hair, Till then, enjoy the ride,

I've noticed some hubs are harder to adjust perfectly than others. I suspect thread type and quality makes a real difference. Some hubs feel as though there is a randomness to the adjustment; that even with the cone not moving at all, tightening the locknut results in varying outcomes at the rim. Campys tend to be a joy to work on. Perhaps this is due to very accurate cut threads as opposed to the rolled threads common on Japanese bikes. (Rolled threads are the stronger and more durable. Also less prone to stress crack starting so the axles are less likely to break.) So I roll with it. I set lower standards of "good enough" for those harder to adjust hubs. Having just written this, I had the thought that the best hub I've ever owned for staying perfect forever is a beautiful Sanshin Pro-Am where I replaced the cones with Campy. (It was my training wheel for my 9k/year racing days. Many wet fender-less rides.) The Campy cones were a force fit the first time on as the V-shaped threads had to get "rolled".) Those Sanshins were some of the best traditional hubs ever made and the replacement cones were from that Italian company known for its quality.)

I am still looking for the "inside cones" on the bikes I service. Andy :)