Shimano 105 brake bleed questions
Time to bleed the Shimano hydraulic brakes on my Giant Defy…as my levers have a bit more travel than I’d like.
Bike has only about 500 miles on it, so doubtful I’ll need to completely flush the system. Probably just going to have to fill the brake bleed cup….and flick the levers repeatedly to expel air bubbles. Tons of cheap brake bleed kits on Amazon…so need some advice of what kits are good and what ones to avoid. Do I need Shimano branded mineral oil or can I simply use the Magura mineral oil I use for the hydraulic clutch on my motorcycle? |
Before you even go that far, I'd just orient the bike so that the lines are running uphill, from the caliper to levers, and without any "traps," give it some vigorous lever flicks and maybe some tapping on any exposed areas of the brake line.
Bubbles in the reservoirs aren't a problem, it's just a problem when the bubbles get between the master cylinder and the calipers, so if you can coax those bubbles up, you should be fine. IOW, unless something is very wrong, there shouldn't be significantly more air in the system than was there when you bought it 500 miles ago - it's just that the air is in a problematic area, now. |
Originally Posted by WhyFi
(Post 22102970)
Before you even go that far, I'd just orient the bike so that the lines are running uphill, from the caliper to levers, and without any "traps," give it some vigorous lever flicks and maybe some tapping on any exposed areas of the brake line.
Bubbles in the reservoirs aren't a problem, it's just a problem when the bubbles get between the master cylinder and the calipers, so if you can coax those bubbles up, you should be fine. IOW, unless something is very wrong, there shouldn't be significantly more air in the system than was there when you bought it 500 miles ago - it's just that the air is in a problematic area, now. I bought the bike “used”. Had 400 or so miles on it when I bought it and have put over 100 miles on it myself. No idea what a hydraulic brake lever is supposed to feel like on a bike, but on a motorcycle the brakes engage after about 1/4” of travel. Haven’t measured but seems as tho I’m getting at least 1/2” or more of travel before I feel the pads engage the rotor. The bike seemingly stops well, but I’m just not used amount of travel before feeling that the brakes are engaging. Don’t know if maybe pads are set too far away from the rotor….or there is air in the system….or maybe this is just normal for hydraulic bike brakes. |
Air in the lines produces a mushy feel, rather than increased dead travel and then a good bite.
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha
(Post 22103320)
Air in the lines produces a mushy feel, rather than increased dead travel and then a good bite.
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Originally Posted by GBK233
(Post 22103322)
no mush…just a lot of dead travel
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha
(Post 22103338)
I sometimes feel as though my hydro brakes (105 and Ultegra) have too much travel too. There's a screw to adjust the lever position, but I don't think it does anything about the travel. WhyFi would know. Fat new pads definitely help.
I know people will tell you that disk brakes are supposed to be self adjusting, but I think that's if there's no return spring, like in cars. I should take pictures of the gap when I change pads and then look at it a couple hundred miles later. |
There is going to be a bit of travel before the initial bite; if the lever is firm upon contact and if the wing of your small shift lever isn't overlapping the drops of your bars, I wouldn't worry about it.
And yes, hydro will automatically adjust the gap between the pads and rotors. And no, no way to adjust free stroke on 105. |
Originally Posted by genejockey
(Post 22103357)
My understanding is that DA and Ultegra allow adjustment of brake lever free stroke, but 105 does not. I have the same issue on my Canyon, that over the 1500 miles I've ridden it, the free stroke has increased, especially at the front. I THINK what's happening is that as the pads wear the return springs are still pushing the pistons back to the same place, so the free stroke increases. It's a little disconcerting when I switch from my rim-brake bikes, because I like to keep the pads close to the rim so I get bite with just a little lever travel.
I know people will tell you that disk brakes are supposed to be self adjusting, but I think that's if there's no return spring, like in cars. I should take pictures of the gap when I change pads and then look at it a couple hundred miles later. |
Originally Posted by WhyFi
(Post 22103386)
Unless the pistons are sticking, the gap should stay consistent throughout the range of pad wear. If you're seeing more lever travel than before, and if the lever isn't really firm, I'd suspect a little bit of air in the lines. Is this one of the stable that gets hung on the wall pretty regularly? Hanging it with the bars down or, heaven forbid, both wheels up, could certainly encourage reservoir bubbles to work in to the lines.
No lack of firmness of the lever, no squishiness. Professionally bled a few months ago. Just progressively greater free stroke over time, more obvious with the front than the rear, correlating with wear on the pads. |
Originally Posted by genejockey
(Post 22103562)
No, the Canyon is the one bike I don't hang up.
No lack of firmness of the lever, no squishiness. Professionally bled a few months ago. Just progressively greater free stroke over time, more obvious with the front than the rear, correlating with wear on the pads. |
Originally Posted by genejockey
(Post 22103562)
No, the Canyon is the one bike I don't hang up.
No lack of firmness of the lever, no squishiness. Professionally bled a few months ago. Just progressively greater free stroke over time, more obvious with the front than the rear, correlating with wear on the pads. |
Originally Posted by GBK233
(Post 22102859)
Time to bleed the Shimano hydraulic brakes on my Giant Defy…as my levers have a bit more travel than I’d like.
Bike has only about 500 miles on it, so doubtful I’ll need to completely flush the system. Probably just going to have to fill the brake bleed cup….and flick the levers repeatedly to expel air bubbles. Tons of cheap brake bleed kits on Amazon…so need some advice of what kits are good and what ones to avoid. Do I need Shimano branded mineral oil or can I simply use the Magura mineral oil I use for the hydraulic clutch on my motorcycle? I have a Canyon Endurace with r7020 (105) discs as well and they have long lever travel as well. I only have about 500kms on mine. Did you end up bleeding yours? If so, did it help with the travel? Im planning to do mine and see if it makes a difference. |
My 105 hydros have about a half inch of free travel. When I bought the bike, the shop mechanic told me that's normal. It's not changed in almost two years.
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Originally Posted by Mojo31
(Post 22390052)
My 105 hydros have about a half inch of free travel. When I bought the bike, the shop mechanic told me that's normal. It's not changed in almost two years.
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Originally Posted by vascof1
(Post 22390312)
Thank you. I think i have quite a bit more than that.
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Not sure if this will help since it says free-stroke not adjustable for ST-R7020/R7025, but the reach adjustment is on page 54:
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-RADBR01-03-ENG.pdf |
Originally Posted by gpburdell
(Post 22390652)
Not sure if this will help since it says free-stroke not adjustable for ST-R7020/R7025, but the reach adjustment is on page 54:
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-RADBR01-03-ENG.pdf The long free stroke on my 105/R7020 levers is mostly obvious right after switching from my rim brake bikes, where I like to keep the pads pretty close to the rims. Once I've ridden a while, I get used to it. |
Originally Posted by gpburdell
(Post 22390652)
Not sure if this will help since it says free-stroke not adjustable for ST-R7020/R7025, but the reach adjustment is on page 54:
https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-RADBR01-03-ENG.pdf |
Measured the free stroke on my bike: 3/4".
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Originally Posted by Mojo31
(Post 22390795)
Measured the free stroke on my bike: 3/4".
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I would just do the bleed. I had a very similar situation with mine. After several thousand miles, the front brake lever throw was significantly longer than the rear. Nice firm lever but just a lot more pull than the rear.
Nothing noteworthy happened that would introduce air into the system. No upside down storage, crashes, etc. I reset the pistons, tried replacing the pads and did everything in disbelieve that air magically appeared in the system. I bled the front brake and the travel is way shorter and now matches the rear. Bite the bullet...bleed it. |
Couple of points. Excess lever pull is usually due to worn brake pads and not air in the system,. I would use Shimano mineral oil rather than some unknown. It isn't as if these stuff is expensive. Shimano hydraulic systems are REALLY easy to bleed and there are several YouTube videos that show everything.
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Originally Posted by genejockey
(Post 22390806)
Measured where?
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Originally Posted by GBK233
(Post 22102859)
Time to bleed the Shimano hydraulic brakes on my Giant Defy…as my levers have a bit more travel than I’d like.
Bike has only about 500 miles on it, so doubtful I’ll need to completely flush the system. Probably just going to have to fill the brake bleed cup….and flick the levers repeatedly to expel air bubbles. Tons of cheap brake bleed kits on Amazon…so need some advice of what kits are good and what ones to avoid. Do I need Shimano branded mineral oil or can I simply use the Magura mineral oil I use for the hydraulic clutch on my motorcycle? |
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