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-   -   After how many miles a day do we get diminished returns with our fitness? (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1232695)

livedarklions 06-14-21 05:24 PM


Originally Posted by Iride01 (Post 22102148)
How do you get the idea I'm talking about training effect from that? I'm not taking training effect into consideration at all.

I was just giving the OP a possible reason why they feel they eat more on long rides. On my long rides, I've never felt overly hungry afterwards. It is my short very hard rides that I tend to eat large amounts of food for a time afterward.


I think you're assuming you are the norm here. This is a classic ymmv situation.

livedarklions 06-14-21 05:31 PM


Originally Posted by genejockey (Post 22102172)
Well, the more 50 mile rides you do, the easier they become, the faster you go, etc. And the routes you ride can be chosen to build up, for example, your climbing ability. When I was building up for the one Century I've ridden, yeah, I rode longer and longer distances, but I also threw in more climbs on Sunday long rides and hill intervals on weekday rides. It seems to me one can train for any athletic event, not just competitive events.

Maybe it's just a perspective thing, I've been riding dozens of centuries per year for the past 4 years, so they really do just seem like longer versions of every other ride I take rather than an event. Also, I think in terms of working out, which is aimed more at general health than training, which is aimed at maximizing performance at a particular activity.

livedarklions 06-14-21 05:33 PM


Originally Posted by Troul (Post 22102191)
once you've exhausted all your tubes & spent all your water for the ride, it's no longer fit to ride.

I've had some rather unfortunate centuries where I actually had to stop and buy tubes more than once.

Troul 06-14-21 05:39 PM


Originally Posted by livedarklions (Post 22102211)
I've had some rather unfortunate centuries where I actually had to stop and buy tubes more than once.

if i blow through the spares on-board, I'll take that as a sign & return to the duty station.

Koyote 06-14-21 05:44 PM


Originally Posted by Cpn_Dunsel (Post 22102159)
Ignore your teeth and they will go away.

Where were you when I was ten years old and pouring sugar all over my frosted flakes?

Koyote 06-14-21 05:44 PM


Originally Posted by livedarklions (Post 22102211)
I've had some rather unfortunate centuries where I actually had to stop and buy tubes more than once.

They make these things called 'patch kits.'

livedarklions 06-14-21 05:48 PM


Originally Posted by Troul (Post 22102217)
if i blow through the spares on-board, I'll take that as a sign & return to the duty station.


Things like that always occur on the return leg. Basically, it was then I learned my 23 year old wheel was not salvageable.

livedarklions 06-14-21 05:55 PM


Originally Posted by Koyote (Post 22102222)
They make these things called 'patch kits.'

I'm aware. I hate patching, so you can have mine.

The wheel was mysteriously causing the flats. It also was snapping spokes right and left and going out of true right after being trued.

skidder 06-14-21 07:24 PM

You don't train for a marathon by running a marathon every day.

indyfabz 06-14-21 07:38 PM


Originally Posted by Koyote (Post 22102221)
Where were you when I was ten years old and pouring sugar all over my frosted flakes?

Remember the old names? Sugar Frosted Flakes. Sugar Corn Pops. Sugar Smacks.

The guy who used to voice Tony the Tiger sang “You’re a Mean One, Mr. Grinch.”

njkayaker 06-14-21 08:31 PM


Originally Posted by skidder (Post 22102332)
You don't train for a marathon by running a marathon every day.

You might not train for a marathon by just doing halfs either.

rsbob 06-14-21 09:17 PM

Bicycling on-line suggests the training plan I successfully used for my first century many moons ago, https://www.bicycling.com/training/a...ide-a-century/

OP, it depends on so many different variables it would be hard to quantify. Age, aerobic capacity, starting level of fitness, do other endurance sports (like running), ratio of fast to slow twitch muscles, internal drive, ability to endure discomfort, and on and on. Grand Tour riders supposedly get stronger the further they get into the event but don’t know how that can be quantified. Physiology, mental toughness and training are keys in endurance sports. There must be an article somewhere on the maximum stress an average body can endure on a reoccurring basis before going downhill.

veganbikes 06-14-21 11:03 PM


Originally Posted by skidder (Post 22102332)
You don't train for a marathon by running a marathon every day.

Oh crap now you tell me! Can I do it virtually now like through google's map? This is how you run right?

PeteHski 06-15-21 03:18 AM


Originally Posted by DreamRider85 (Post 22101745)
If you are training for 100 miles, would you say it's better to do 50 + miles consistently than to just do one very long ride close to 100 miles, but less often?

Well you have to build up to it. So if starting from scratch, you might start with say 20 mile rides and once those feel easy, increase to 30 miles, then 40 miles etc, etc. Eventually you are able to do the 100 mile target. But my point was that this only applies if your end goal is to achieve a 100 mile ride.
I only mentioned 50+ mile rides because that's about the minimum distance you should be able to comfortably achieve before attempting your first 100 mile ride. If say you were training for your first 100 mile event (race, joyride, whatever) it would be advisable to complete at least one 75 mile ride beforehand. But you don't have to do countless high mileage rides - that would be inefficient. For example I do maybe half a dozen 100 mile events per season and will do maybe half a dozen 50 mile training rides and a few 75 mile rides and maybe one 100 mile training ride in the lead up to my first event.

PeteHski 06-15-21 03:31 AM


Originally Posted by livedarklions (Post 22101794)
I'm not sure what "training" for a ride means. I understand what training for a race means, but I would think the best way to prepare for a ride of 100 miles is to ride 100 miles. I find the more long rides I do, the easier they get, but I'm not sure that if I wasn't largely limited to 25 mile rides during the work week, that I'd be as able to recover from my Saturday century as well as I do.

There's definitely a point of distance and frequency where the damage you're doing to the muscles day to day by the overuse overwhelms your body's ability to repair the damage--in other words, overtraining is a real thing.

Training just means preparing for whatever it is you want to achieve. It can be a race, fun ride or whatever other riding goal you have in mind.

So the best way to prepare for a 100 mile ride is just go out and ride 100 miles is it? Well that implies that you have already completed the necessary training to ride 100 miles. Nobody just gets on a bike and rides 100 miles without "training" for it in some form. The more accepted method is to gradually build up the length of your training rides to at least 70% of your target distance before attempting your final distance goal. (presuming that's what your goal actually is)

livedarklions 06-15-21 04:51 AM


Originally Posted by skidder (Post 22102332)
You don't train for a marathon by running a marathon every day.

A marathon is a race. I don't "train" for a ride. I think it's the wrong word.

Also, there's no comparison between the amount of recovery needed after a marathon and that after a century. Even in racing, there's no runner's equivalent to a grand tour race, where they ride several centuries plus per week.

I've never run a marathon, but I ride a century once a week at the age of 60, weather permitting. I don't know anyone who runs a 26.2 mile course every week. They're not equivalents.

I won't go all Grant Peterson here and assert that calling this stuff training is ruining bicycling because, hey if it motivates you to ride more, call it whatever you like. Treating distance riding like it's a discipline would demotivate me,

PeteHski 06-15-21 05:07 AM


Originally Posted by DreamRider85 (Post 22101710)
What's your opinion? Is it 40? 50? 70? 100? I have done 60 miles recently and 70, but I don't feel like there are many other benefits once you get past 40 or 50. I could be wrong. Maybe it's different for everybody? With cycling, you can't really customize the intensity of your whole ride as easily due to stop signs, different road conditions, hills, downhills, etc... The benefit of cycling is that it's more fun so you do it more. But minute per minute, hour per hour, there are more challenging workouts. Now going up a big hill is really a tough workout, but not all routes are going to be the same.

Coming back to the original question. There is only really a benefit in riding more than 40-50 miles if you simply enjoy doing so or are training/preparing/conditioning yourself to ride those longer distances for whatever reason. If you are cycling only for fun and general fitness and you have had enough by 50 miles then there is zero point in riding any further. If fitness is your primary goal, then shorter, higher intensity rides are far more efficient in boosting your overall fitness level. Distance is only 1 dimension of training load.

noimagination 06-15-21 05:59 AM

How far is up?
How long is a piece of string?
How much do "we" weigh?
How tall are "we"?
What bike do "we" ride?
What is "our" average speed?
When are "we" supposed to wave?
(I'd like unanswerable questions for $600 please, Alex.)

unterhausen 06-15-21 06:05 AM

I have noticed a positive training effect from rides up to 300 km/day. At 400 km, it seems like I need a lot more recovery. Although I have to say I have felt better after a couple of 400km days when I'm riding a 1200km ride.

Having said that, it's easy to overdo it with longer rides and 100km seems like the longest distance that makes sense to me on a regular basis.

As always, ymmv and working up to numbers like that may take some time.

livedarklions 06-15-21 06:53 AM


Originally Posted by unterhausen (Post 22102724)
I have noticed a positive training effect from rides up to 300 km/day. At 400 km, it seems like I need a lot more recovery. Although I have to say I have felt better after a couple of 400km days when I'm riding a 1200km ride.

Having said that, it's easy to overdo it with longer rides and 100km seems like the longest distance that makes sense to me on a regular basis.

As always, ymmv and working up to numbers like that may take some time.

I think we all have our set points where our gains are going to be outweighed by our losses, and that it would vary a lot from person to person. I can't even imagine riding a 400 km day, although I've come pretty close to 300 (270 km). I'm sure there are factors like body size, age, etc. that are beyond our control that would have an effect on our maximum potential.

Rdmonster69 06-15-21 07:03 AM

So I'm not supposed to stop and have a pizza on my century ? What fun is that ? I'm coming up with my own definition and it will consist of a stop for a couple of hotdogs ....maybe a burger. Lon Haldeman (SP?) won a few ROM events by slamming Big Macs.

Iride01 06-15-21 07:15 AM


Originally Posted by terrymorse (Post 22102162)
From both your words and the title of this thread: "After how many miles a day do we get diminished returns with our fitness?"

"fitness" -- not "diet" or "weight loss".

Is the OP seeking advice on how to lose weight? I may have missed that.

If so, is your advice then: "Better not ride hard or long, or you might get hungry and eat too much"?

I was only replying to one comment of the OP. I quoted the exact comment that I was addressing. Don't try to imagine them as a statement of how the OP should ride or train.

If we were to get together and discuss it, you'd probably find we agree more than disagree. However, while you seem to be looking at this thread as the OP looking for in depth training advice, I'm only looking at it as the OP trying to make small talk.

PeteHski 06-15-21 07:16 AM


Originally Posted by Rdmonster69 (Post 22102783)
So I'm not supposed to stop and have a pizza on my century ? What fun is that ? I'm coming up with my own definition and it will consist of a stop for a couple of hotdogs ....maybe a burger. Lon Haldeman (SP?) won a few ROM events by slamming Big Macs.

We all have different reasons to ride. For me it's a combination of fun, fitness, challenge and general sense of well-being. But the question was about diminishing returns on fitness. I would say a mid-ride pizza is an effective way of diminishing your return on fitness, but not a bad way to spend your day!

Iride01 06-15-21 07:19 AM


Originally Posted by livedarklions (Post 22102200)
I think you're assuming you are the norm here. This is a classic ymmv situation.

Are you the norm?

I just put out there my anecdotal experiences, views and opinions. So of course YMMV.

Even when people point to factual scientific study, many times what they are writing is their opinion of what the study says and means for the situation they are applying it too.

This is BF, a place to share views and opinions. If I wanted facts and scientific study, well, there are better sites for that.

PeteHski 06-15-21 07:23 AM


Originally Posted by terrymorse (Post 22102162)
"fitness" -- not "diet" or "weight loss".

When people casually talk about fitness I tend to think weight loss (or maintaining a healthy weight) is part and parcel of being fit. Obviously weight is only one aspect of fitness, but usually a pretty major one in the western world!

Kapusta 06-15-21 07:29 AM

57

burnthesheep 06-15-21 07:31 AM

1. https://www.bikeforums.net/training-nutrition/

2. Each person has different goals for riding a bicycle

3. Based on those goals, it's the aggregate of TIME and INTENSITY. Miles are like asking "how long is a piece of string".

Lastly, there's a lot of questions like this that boil down to people wanting some kind of answer to something not knowable without knowing their goals. I know a LOT of recreational riders that pour in 200+ "miles" a week just sucking wheel for hours at a time. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. But they always ask "why am I still slow" or some other variant of that complaint. Well, you ride for enjoyment. Do you want a different goal? Why not have enjoyment be the goal instead of something else if you don't need to?

If your goal isn't a specific racing discipline, we're making the topic more complicated than it needs to be.

terrymorse 06-15-21 07:35 AM


Originally Posted by UCantTouchThis (Post 22102583)
I was lifting my fitness level to make my century with 12,000 ft more enjoyable.

That sounds like a great climbing century, what was it?

I enjoy (well, enjoyed--it's been many years) the centuries with 10,000+ feet.


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