Properly maintaining tubeless is much more work than changing one flat per year - I would never consider tubeless at that kind of (in)frequency.

Hmmmmm ... I know there is some maintaining to do with tubeless. May be why the rear went flat as it is. I had no idea and it may have been sitting in the Trek store with the sealant in it for quite some time.

The rider in me wants to forget about it and stick with what I know. The wrench in me wants to master a new tech. I guess the only sensible solution is to buy the new mountain bike and learn on that !!!

It all comes down to how many flats you get when running tubes. I used to get 1 or 2 flats per month on average - our roads are not great. With tubeless road I have had zero flats in 2 years. So I’m sticking with tubeless. I was already running tubeless mtb for 15 years, so that made the choice easier.

Indeed, the GP5000 tubeless is between 45 and 65 grams heavier than the tube type GP5000, which is about the mass of the lightest Continental tube. But if I look at Schwalbe I see that the tubeless Pro One TT tire is lighter than the tube Pro One, and the Pro One regular tubeless is 265 grams which is 30 grams heavier than the tube type. Add 20 grams for 20 cc of sealant, and you have a fairly light weight tube. What I noticed that convinced me to keep trying different sealants was that the tubeless tires at the same pressure seemed to have less harsh feedback. Yes, it was that much better.

But it would add to my enjoyment of bicycling if everyone who rides in the group rides around here would go tubeless. We have been running about 50 riders for about 30 miles, and it seems like they are about 50/50 tube - tubeless. About 1/3rd of the time someone has a flat, and the flats have been 100% tube tires. We have a lot of gravel roads in this area and the intersections between paved roads and gravel roads always have gravel on them. And people get flats at those junctions. Looking at my current GP5000 rear I can see several dings that cut through to the cord, but no flats and that tire is almost worn down to the wear indicators.

Tubeless is a rapidly changing space. What didn't work last year may be better this year. My new wheels (on the way from Light Bicycle, Carbon Ti hubs, 46mm, and no through drilled spoke holes) will not require tape. Tape has been the biggest PITA for me. Since I will use a tire mounting lubricant (which also acts as a bead seal at a pressure no higher than commonly run in heavy duty truck tires) they will not be that difficult to mount. And, with 25cc of Orange Seal Sub-Zero sealant (which doesn't seem to dry out and which works in my fat bike so I only have to keep one type of sealant around) they will be lighter than a GP5000 tube tire with a 50 gram Continental tube, and I only need to top up the sealant once a season.

FYI: Schwalbe comparison. And I am well aware that they are different tires but the Pro One tube version is not a slouch.

Tube:

• Schwalbe Pro One Tube Type
  ROAD
• 25-622
• Evolution Line
  Super Race, V-Guard
• ADDIX Race
  Black

Size:
ETRTO 25-622 (Franz.Bez. 700x25C)
Typ:Folding
Compound:ADDIX Race
Execution:Super Race, V-Guard
Color:Black
Seal:Tube
Weight:235 g
Pressure:6.00 - 9.00 Bar (85 - 130 psi)
Maximum load:70 kg
EPI:127
Article number:11653977


Tubeless:

• Schwalbe Pro One TT
  ROAD
• 25-622
• Evolution Line
  Super Race
• ADDIX Race
  Classic Sidewall

Size:ETRTO 25-622 (Franz.Bez. 700x25C)
Typ:Folding
Compound:ADDIX Race
Execution:Super Race
Color:Classic Sidewall
Seal:TLE
Weight:220 g
Pressure:5.00 - 7.50 Bar (70 - 110 psi)
Maximum load:70 kg
EPI:127
Article number:11653972

Yeah ....I get the advantages and think its cool that they came set up that way. Long view tho ? I havent had a flat since early may and that is about 1,000 miles riding. I am using Michelin power road front/power endurance rear and they have been great. I'm not worried that the new tires running 70 psi as opposed to 100 psi will be that much more likely to get pinch flats. I do see some hazards on my in own rides but I will see how it goes with tubes. Hopefully my luck will stay the same with the new bike. If not I am sure I can manage switching back to tubeless.

Decided what the heck ...... bought 3 tubes and rim tape AND a bottle of sealant. Had the rear mounted/filled and inflated in about 20 minutes. Topped off the front ....... only a tiny bit of spilled sealant which was my fault.

Aired up to 70 PSI and went for a 2 mile ride. If they are solid tomorrow I am sold. It was pretty easy and I have tubes for flat repair on the road. If I gotta mess with them once or twice a season its no big dea. to me

Just out of curiosity, are the tubed riders still on skinnier tires, too? Most of the time, my 650B bike is also carrying a 700C tube as there's always some 700x23C rider who needs one. ;)

We don't have any tubeless bikes in the fleet (yet), but I'm a big fan of tubeless tape...

I carry tons of stuff.. Internal storage has tube,levers and inflator. My very small back pack has a skinny tube (I have a bike running 700x23 tubed) ,levers,patch kit, a park I-beam multi tool and a small pump. The I-beam has a chain tool and I carry a spare quick link ..... I have helped 3 fellow riders with flats this year .....and saved a turtle : )

I've run tubes with the tubeless rim strip on a set of wheels and it did not make putting a tube in any more difficult than if it had velox in it. I actually did not find it better or worse actually. The downside to removing, if you want to go back to tubeless you have to replace it, well, they recommend it as a 1 use item.

It "looks" like a PITA or did you actually have a problem?

It "looked" like more of a pain than it was. The beads set easy, putting in the sealant was pretty easy and they are just as aired up this morning as last night. Other than roadside flats I think I will stick with it.

DangerousDanR - I agree what you say in post #29 about tubeless being less harsh. On my tubed (aluminum) road bike with 25mm latex tubed tires I find it harsh to ride a lot in the crack filled pavement near the white line on the right. Makes me migrate further out into the road to seek the car tire ruts.

On my tubeless (titanium) road bike the harshness is much less even when the tubeless tires are inflated at the higher end (say..90f/100r). It allows me to relax on my solo training rides around traffic and I don’t get beat to death by choppy pavement and cars appreciate me since I’m not as squirrelly.

To make the harshness comparison of tubed to tubeless more meaningful and not just attributable to what is probably superior shock dampening from the titanium frame, I plan to convert my aluminum bike to tubeless as well. My Flyte SRS-3 aluminum bike has a nice Reynolds carbon fork and I run Velocity A23 clincher wheels with tubeless tape/latex tubes and currently w/ Schwalbe One (23mm) clinchers at like 84 psi front and 90 psi rear and the ride is just “OK”. Normally these wheels are run with 25mm Challenge Strada open tubulars and yeah those are a bit less harsh. But even those are quite a bit more harsh than the Panaracer/Hutchinson Secteur tubeless set up on my titanium bike.

True that. Once you understand how it works and how to make it work, you quickly realise how much better it is! I know by fact that some tire and rim combos are harder than other to set-up. For instance, the factory wheel setup I had on my 2 previous bikes (OEM tires and rims) were both a PITA to seat on rims. It took me half an hour just to seat one tire on its rim. On the other hand, my current setup (Schwalbe tires on OEM rims) is a charm. Tires can be mounted by using a regular pump - no compressor needed.

Anyhow, I wouldn't go back to tubes. 4000kms on my current TL setup and not a single flat :thumb:.

He used ''looks like'' 2 times :innocent:

There are a lot of things in life that change. I'm always annoyed. I never want to be forced into new stuff when I'm used to the "old" stuff. I've had to tell myself to just learn the "new" and see what happens. It ends up not being that bad.

My exact experience....limited tho it is. I wont be going tubeless on my other bike simply because it is an older machine and flats aren't a huge problem for me. The new bike came that way and was easy enough to fix so I'm sold on that set up as it came which is Bontrager Aeolus 3 with the plastic rim strips installed already. If I ever start from scratch on a build which isn't super likely but is possible we will see how it goes.

If you're really intent on experimenting with this, even though it's not necessary, you should at least make it as easy on yourself as you can. Get a syringe-type sealant injector/remover (like this - https://www.amazon.com/KOM-Cycling-T...4XR/ref=sr_1_5) so that you can easily check your sealant levels periodically. If your stems won't pass the "needle" all the way through, get new stems that will, like the Muc-Off aluminum ones.

I have a hard time with this one. I have nothing against using a 23 mm tire, and I don't doubt that they have lower aerodynamic resistance on most wheels. But I have ridden on large rear tires for many years and on 25 mm or larger fronts for over 10 years. I am a large lump, so I need the larger tires. I understand that people believe that a 23 mm tire has less wind resistance, but I also see most of the group on the hoods 100% of the time.

But, yes, the flats are mostly 23 mm, and they seem to mostly be Conti, either GP4000 or GP5000. But most of the tires on those rides are Conti...

Noted .....the sealant I had came with a threaded adapter but seems kinda weak and I had seen these syringes. I was fully prepared to ditch tubeless as I bought all the stuff to change over but honestly ....it would have been more trouble to pop out the rim strips and put rim tape in than it was to just reseat and seal up the tubeless set up. It was really that easy !!

The injectors that thread on to the stem are only good for getting sealant in to the tire - they can't take sealant out, not all of it, at least. IOW, if you want to check the amount of sealant in your tire, you'll won't be able to do anything better than use a dipstick unless you want to unseat the tires. Removing sealant would also need to be done by unseating the tires. All of this is to say that tubeless life is just a lot easier with a syringe.

I have a hard time with this one. I have nothing against using a 23 mm tire, and I don't doubt that they have lower aerodynamic resistance on most wheels. But I have ridden on large rear tires for many years and on 25 mm or larger fronts for over 10 years. I am a large lump, so I need the larger tires. I understand that people believe that a 23 mm tire has less wind resistance, but I also see most of the group on the hoods 100% of the time.

But, yes, the flats are mostly 23 mm, and they seem to mostly be Conti, either GP4000 or GP5000. But most of the tires on those rides are Conti...

I run 23s on my other bike but that's simply because its what came on it. My younger self inherently thought ... skinnier = faster.

Skinnier tires like 23mm have always seemed more prone to punctures, to me. And I'd imagine that the tubeless folks in your group are mostly, if not all, on 25mm or bigger. So anyone riding an older road bike with only enough clearance for 23s would have a couple strikes against them, in my mind.

Complete speculation on my part. :)

Once you figure it out, then it's pretty trouble free. I used to get about 6-8 flats per year with tubes. The last 3 years, riding 4000 miles per year including tours, I have yet to get a flat. You can get plugs so that if you do get a puncture the sealant doesn't seal, you can plug it in mere seconds. I've had to do this twice in that same 4 years. Never once did I have to stop, remove the tire and insert a tube. For me, not having a flat in all that time and having to spend time roadside repairing it, is worth a little extra time at home setting it up.

Make sure there's sealant in there, spin the wheel horizontally and vertically for a few minutes and then check the pressure an hour later. It should be holding.

J,

I spun it every which away and rode a few miles after. It was still fully inflated this morning when I got up. I also topped up the front to be sure it .